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that he felt that any injection of funds into our educational system for oceanography, regardless of what level they go in on, I do not think it can help but assist the whole program. In other words, It would have its effect whether the bill says so or not on the entire education.

Senator Pell. Beyond the fact that this bill will obviously not be administered by the Navy, do you have any thoughts as to where it might best be administered in the Federal Government?

Admiral WATERS. No, sir.

Senator PELL. Any of the ideas that have been advanced, though, the Office of Education, the National Science Foundation, Smithsonian Institution, they would be in our view of equal merit.

Admiral' WATERS. Yes, sir. My reply to that I think would have to be confined to the fact that it does not seem to be within the Navy's purview.

Senator PELL. Right. I thank you. It is always particularly nice as a Senator from Rhode Island to welcome a representative of the Navy because the Navy and Rhode Island are pretty well intertwined and even our coats of arms are the same. We have an anchor and so do you, but the difference is ours is un fouled and the Navy anchor is fouled. (Laughter.]

We are delighted you were here, and the session will now recess until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. We are going to wind up tomorrow at noon, so we seek the 10-minute rule, if any

of tomorrow's witnesses are here. My colleague and the senior member of this committee, Senator McNamara's funeral service is at 12 tomorrow and we will not be in session during his funeral service.

(Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the committee recessed to reconvene at 10 a.m., on Wednesday, May 4, 1966.)




Washington, D.C. The special subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, in room 4232, New Senate Office Building, at 10 a.m., Senator Claiborne Pell (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senator Pell (presiding).

Committee staff present: Fitzhugh Green, special assistant to Senator Pell; Stewart E. McClure, chief clerk; Roy H. Millenson, minority clerk.

Senator PELL. The third session of the Special Subcommittee on Sea Grant Colleges will resume its hearing today. We will be terminating at 12 in deference to the funeral of Senator McNamara. So I trust we can get through the scheduled witnesses this morning.

Are either Representative Clausen or Representative Keith here?

Pending their arrival, we will go on with the executive branch and private witnesses.

The first witness this morning, then, will be Captain Snyder of the Interagency Committee on Oceanography, who is appearing in behalf of Mr. Morse, and Mr. Abel is with him, a fact of which I am glad.

Captain Snyder, will you proceed ?

Captain SNYDER. Good morning. Dr. Morse is still on the sick list. He sincerely regrets his inability to appear this morning.

He did write this statement and, with your permission, I will read it as if he were here.

Senator PELL. All right.

Captain SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, members of the subcommittee

Senator PELL. Excuse me. If anybody in the back of the room can't hear, raise your hand.

Will you talk more into the microphone, Captain, and raise your voice, and if you can't hear me, let me know, too.

Captain SNYDER. It gives me great pleasure to appear on behalf of the Interagency Committee on Oceanography (ICO) to discuss the ICO's view of the sea grant college concept, as put forward in Senator Pell's bill, S. 2439.

Since the essential components of this legislation are presented in a very straightforward manner, and because they represent not an entirely new concept in terms of applied research, education, and training—but rather an ingenious twist on an educational approach which has already established itself as a success—I feel that I can be equally direct and precise in expressing those views which are the reason for my being here today.

There is no doubt of the general need for the continuance of Federal assistance in developing and maintaining centers of oceanographic excellence in our universities. The establishment of such centers of excellence necessarily includes the support of means whereby a broad range of skilled manpower can be developed to handle theoretical and practical problems soon to be encountered by the research scientist, the development engineer, and the technician who supports the ocean operators. All of this contemplates progress in instrumentation, resource development, intelligently integrated academic curricula, purposefully defined research goals, improvement in operational techniques, and last but not least--dissemination of the knowledge acquired to those people who daily work will eventually exploit the ocean to the fullest.

I can say without reservation that the Interagency Committee on Oceanography supports the concept of sea grant colleges as outlined in S. 2439. If I might also depart from cusiom, I might add i hat my personal views are identical to that of the ICO.

I would like us to look at a problem of administration—and from your vantage point, gentlemen, one of legislation-which I think we will all agree is most difficult—the question of implementation. Or said in other terms: "What is the best way to go about getting this done?" S. 2439 calls for the deposit, in a special account in the I'reasury, of 10 percent of all bonuses, rentals, and royalties paid to the Federal Government after June 30, 1965, in accordance with the provisions of the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act.

The conclusion that the ICO has reached is that no program of this nature should look to funds earmarked from another source for its subsistence. If the principle is worthwhile, which this one is, it should stand on its own merit. Thus the ICO feels that needs and the means to meet them should be analyzed and then funds to support them can and should be provided through the normal budget and appropriation processes. This would insure that funding is planned in reÎation to the required program and that funding is adequate to meet the challenging opportunities.

I feel certain that State enthusiasm for this program can best be effected by a stipulation in this bill that Federal moneys allocated for the development of these "centers of excellence" be paralleled by funds from individual State legislatures, according to an apportioned formula.

Another aspect of “State participation," which the ICO feels is deserving of careful attention, is the question of which States should receive the benefits of such a bill were it to become law. I do believe that some means should be devised whereby all of the 50 States, regardless of their location in proximity to the oceans or the Great Lakes, could qualify. Surely the call to the sea has not in the past been confined to residents of coastal areas nor is that likely to be the case in the future.

But of even more substance are the declarations of purpose in S. 2439 calling for the use of marine resources to provide greater economic opportunities, expanded employment and trade, new sources of food, and new means for the utilization of fresh and salt water. These, we believe, are the most obvious opportunities for true State participation, particularly in the case of our landlocked States. Therefore, we urge that due consideration be given to recovery, conservation, processing and marketing techniques, and to the "home economics of marine products." These subjects should be well within the meaning of "*** education, training, and research in the marine sciences and a program of advisory services * * *."

Concerning the point of an executive agency to administer the use of allocated sea grant funds, the Interagency Committee on Oceanography concurs with Senator Pell's designation of the National Science Foundation. The ICO feels that the considerable experience of the Foundation in the interaction of the academic community and the Federal Government makes the NSF the best agency to administer the bill. We do feel strongly that members of the ico-particularly Navy, Commerce, and Interior-have essential roles to play and also should provide advisory services to the Science Foundation in view of the complex ends to be served by S. 2139. The ICO stands ready to assist the Science Foundation in the performance of its administrative duties under the act, thus recognizing these essential roles and insuring direct participation by other agencies in the sea grant college structure.

In closing, the ICO is in full agreement with the three basic premises of S. 2439—first, that the time is ripe for an aggressive move toward fuller exploitation of the resources of the seas; second, that our universities and colleges must pay a key role in this movement; and third, that while ocean science itself is in good shape, the exploitation of ocean resources requires a forward thrust.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I will be happy to try to attempt to answer any questions.

Senator PELL. Thank you very much, indeed. Returning to the three points you mentioned, first, the relationship of the amount of money that would be authorized through the revenues from the rents and royalties, the reason for that is to show that this would be a self-generating measure.

I realize that there are executive branch reasons why they don't like to create separate trust funds and I am conscious of this fact.

In this connection, have you been in touch with the Bureau of the Budget? Have you any idea what their general viewpoint is in this bill?

Captain SNYDER. Yes, sir. Dr. Morse had this statement which he wrote taken to the staff of the Bureau of the Budget and to the Office of the Secretary of Defense, and this particular statement represents the official position of the Department of Defense, his own personal viewpoint, the position of the Department of the Navy, the concensus of the Interagency Committee on Oceanography, and the Bureau of the Budget had no objection.

Senator PELL. Do you think a letter could be forthcoming from the Bureau of the Budget that if these measures, the suggestions, were

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