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cities, and work under assumed names. I know two men who were officers of the old Wilton Carpet Workers Union, who even now are denied the right to work in a carpet factory.

The wages that are paid throughout the carpet industry are something like a 5- and 10-cent store. If one fellow cuts a little bit then the fellow next door tries to cut a little bit more. The fear that we have in this particular industry is this, that any time a manufacturer cuts wages the fellow next door cuts and it goes around a complete circle. The result is that the man who is paying a trifle more than his competitor immediately has to start out again, and he says, "I am still higher."

So that bill will be a godsend to the carpet workers and all other textile workers.

I do not think there is any more that I could add to this, because I believe Vice President Kelly has covered the situation, and I just wanted to point out some of the things that took place in the trade that I work at. I believe that is all I have to say.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Lawlor, will you tell us where it is that these conditions exist that you have described?

Mr. LAWLOR. Yes, sir. Some of the worst conditions in the carpet industry exist in Yonkers, N. Y., the Alexander Smith Carpet Co. Mr. RAMSPECK. Where is the plant at which you work?

Mr. LAWLOR. A. & M. Karagheusian, Freehold, N. J. They are Armenians.

Mr. RAMSPECK. That is all.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. By what trade-mark or label do they put their product on the market?

Mr. LAWLOR. They have, I believe, about 70 different grades of carpet, and each grade of carpet has a trade name. We have a grade of work that I am employed on that they call Hindustan. We get $2.28 for making a 9 by 12 rug, and that rug is sold for $59.50.

Mr. WOOD. They do not put the name of the firm on the label? Mr. LAWLOR. Unless they make it for some special store they put their name on a small cloth tag.

Mr. KELLER. How much does the weaver get for that rug, the 9 by 12?

Mr. LAWLOR. $2.28. That is a seamless rug, 9 by 12.

Mr. KELLER. And that sells for $59.50?

Mr. LAWLOR. Yes.

Mr. KELLER. Thank you. That is all. Thank you very much.

STATEMENT OF ROLLA L. WALLACE

Mr. WALLACE. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Rolla L. Wallace. The Carpet and Rug Federation, or the carpet industry as a whole, comprises about 30,000 employees throughout the industry, ranging in an area from Philadelphia through New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, and out through the western part of Pennsylvania.

We have endeavored as a federation to cooperate with the manufacturers in a way which we believe will save the carpet industry of the United States by protecting the employer against unfair competition from foreign sources. We have worked on many cases in the past year and a half, since this federation has been set up, along

the lines of organized labor. We have contacted the Carpet and Rug Institute of America, inviting them to meet members of the federation in order to come to some stabilization of wages and hours in the carpet industry. We have met with just a blank form of no recognition at all from the manufacturers, so far as the carpet and rug industry is concerned.

Now, Mr. Chairman, we find that down in the Philadelphia section in Pennsylvania that, while I heard today criticism of Pennsylvania, we are, I believe, in the carpet industry in a different situation because in our section of the country, that is, around Philadelphia, we believe we are the highest paid in the carpet industry.

Our most difficult point seems to be in the State of New York, in the Bigelow-Sanford Co. of Amsterdam, which in turn also has a plant at Thompsonville, Conn. The two plants are owned by the same concern and one competes against the other. The manufacturer uses the Thompsonville plant as a whip on the employees of the Amsterdam plant to the extent that they say if the workers in Amsterdam do not compete with the other plant they will ship the orders to Thompsonville, Conn., and vice versa, because of the fact that the concern has the mills in Thompsonville and Amsterdam.

Now, Mr. Lawlor has just stated the case in New Jersey, and we find that Karagheusian has been and is using the whip on the workers in that particular town, because that manufacturer in that small town, with a population of about seven thousand or eight thousand, is, I believe, the main support of the town. Of course, by simply saying that they are going to shut down, they drive fear into the hearts of the workers that unless they take this drastic reduction which the company feels they ought to put through on the workers, unless they do take the reduction, they will simply shut down the mill.

This is an indication of where, while the employer tries to talk cooperation on one part, he is working in just the opposite direction on the other part.

Now, according to reports coming in from the delegates that come into the Carpet Federation, many times the delegate from the Karagheusian Co. has reported that his company was in favor of meeting a committee from the employees of the Carpet Federation. He says he has advocated it to the Carpet Institute, but we find that Mr. Karagheusian has more or less been instrumental in the beginning of the cycle of reduction in the carpet industry.

Before the N. R. A. the carpet industry was practically at a standstill. Our wages were low during the years of 1930 and 1931, which had taken in so many strikes, and, of course, the wages had to come down. We realized that they had to come down and they did come down. They came down to such an extent that the carpet workers found that even though they were taking reductions it was not doing them any good insofar as working was concerned. They did not get any more work. They simply went along that way until the N. R. A. came along.

At that time we were no doubt in a very low state; things had to revive at some time, but the N. R. A. came along and more or less set a standard of wages throughout the textile industry.

While we did not have anything to do with setting up the codes, it was more or less a stability there which we were interested in at the particular time because of the fact that it gave all manufacturers the

same chance of putting his stuff on the market and it equalized things for the manufacturer.

Mr. KELLER. Did the N. R. A. hurt you or did it help you?

Mr. WALLACE. That is what I was trying to bring out. I just could not think of what I wanted to say. The N. R. A. has more or less helped us out in many ways.

Mr. KELLER. What about the hours?

Mr. WALLACE. In hours?

Mr. KELLER. Yes?

Mr. WALLACE. Particularly in hours. We are working 40 hours now, and while our firm has always been considered a fair firm, he has in the past through slight grabbing here and grabbing there increased the machine load in small proportions.

Mr. RAMSPECK. You say you only work 40 hours a week?

Mr. WALLACE. We work 40 hours a week.

Mr. RAMSPECK. What did Mr. Lawlor mean by saying they worked from midnight Sunday to midnight Saturday?

Mr. WALLACE. Mr. Lawlor was attempting to explain the industry in some particulars. In my particular plant, as I stated before, in Philadelphia, we are organized much better than throughout the rest of the carpet industry, which enables us to hold the 40 hours much better than the people on the outskirts.

Mr. WOOD. They put on three shifts for that work?

Mr. WALLACE. Mr. Chairman, at one time we never worked any more than a regular 8-hour day.

Mr. WOOD. But some of these mills do work three 8-hour shifts and work 24 hours a day?

Mr. WALLACE. Yes.

Mr. WOOD. That is what I thought he meant.

Mr. RAMSPECK. That is what I was trying to clear up.

Mr. WALLACE. I was trying to point out what Mr. Lawlor meant. He meant some mills have three shifts running. These men can be called in to work their 8 hours any time in the 24 hours.

Mr. WOOD. Your wages were appreciably increased under the N. R. A.?

Mr. WALLACE. My wages?

Mr. WOOD. Generally.

Mr. WALLACE. My wages, with the increase in wages and the reduction in hours that we received amounted to 38 percent. That is with the reduction in hours and the increased wages that we received through the N. R. A.

Mr. WOOD. It amounted to a 38-percent increase, approximately? Mr. WALLACE. Yes.

Mr. WOOD. Has there been any reduction in wages since the N. R. A. was declared unconstitutional?

Mr. WALLACE. Well, our firm has not introduced this Badeaux system, not exactly.

Mr. WOOD. The stop watch?

Mr. WALLACE. It is a system.
Mr. WOOD. The stop watch?

Mr. WALLACE. Yes, sir. They have brought them in there and they have increased the skeins 3 ounces, whereby they would ordinarily be running 10-ounce skeins, they have increased them 3 ounces. Mr. WOOD. But they pay you the same wage?

Mr. WALLACE. No, not exactly. While they increased that skeinwe will just take that as an example-while they have increased the skein that proportion, we have demanded a proportion of that extra work or extra machine load.

Mr. WOOD. Have you obtained that?

Mr. WALLACE. In our particular shop we have.

Mr. WooD. The fact of the matter is that the employers have been attempting to lower wages since the N. R. A. was voided?

Mr. WALLACE. I want to point out that our manufacturer realizes what is going on throughout the industry which is making it very hard for us at the time to hold these things.

Mr. WOOD. I am not talking about one factory in particular; I am talking about the general industry. They are attempting to lower wages since the N. R. A. by speeding up, the stop-watch system; and the stretch-out?

Mr. WALLACE. Yes.

Mr. KELLER. All right, thank you very much. We have just one more witness who wants to get away tonight and we are going to let him get away. This is Mr. Lisk. He will only take 10 minutes. and we hope he fills that time full.

STATEMENT OF H. D. LISK

Mr. LISK. My name is H. D. Lisk, of Concord, N. C., representing the United Textile Workers of America.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I have here a list of mills in which I will endeavor to present who is violating the textile code of fair competition and who undoubtedly since the N. R. A. has been declared unconstitutional has endeavored more determinably than ever before to break down the standards of wages and working conditions in almost every respect.

Mr. KELLER. And hours?

Mr. LISK. And hours. This is being done more rapidly than they ever did before. However, they were breaking-I will say this, they never were complying with the codes as they had agreed to, from the time the N. R. A. was enacted until it was declared unconstitutional.

To begin with here, I have the Lancaster Cotton Nill, at Lancaster, S. C., and I want to say right here that this is one of the largest textile mills in the South. There are approximately 6,000 looms in this particular mill, and something over 350,000 spindles; I do not know exactly how many.

In 1934, in September, during the national strike this mill was operating on a 40-hour basis. Wages were about as good as the average cotton textile mill in the South. At the time of the strike-I might mention here that the president and the sole owner of this mill spoke to his employees and stated that if the employees would assure him that they would not become affiliated with the union or with the United Textile Workers of America, and they would never strike, he would be a legitimate employer, he would see that they were taken care of.

Further, he told his employees to carry crossties and logs, and gave part of them picker sticks, and put them out on the railroad and told them that if anybody came in to endeavor to explain the conditions of the textile industry or asked that they come out on strike or even

to become affiliated with the United Textile Workers of America, that if they got in any trouble he would see they were taken care of.

I am going to tell you now how he took care of the employees for carrying out his request. About 6 weeks ago he put these employees on 50 hours a week. Loom fixers that were making 55 cents an hour for 40 hours a week are now working 50 hours a week and are being paid 45 cents an hour.

In addition to this, prior to this time, the loom fixers had warp hands that laid up the warps on the looms, and he has also accommodated the loom fixers by letting them lay up and tie up their own warps, with this reduction in wages.

Mr. Chairman, that does not anything like complete the Lancaster Mill, but, due to the time here and the fact that I have several mills that I also want to mention, I must be brief.

I might say also that the same conditions exist in the Springs Mill, at Fort Mill, S. C.; the Baldwin Cotton Mill, at Chester, S. C.; the Eureka Cotton Mill, Chester, S. C.; and the Kershaw Cotton Mill, at Kershaw, S. C.

All these mills are owned by the same management and the conditions existing in all the mills are the same as at the Lancaster Cotton Mill.

Now, we have another matter. The Cornelius Cotton Mill, in Cornelius, S. C., is one of the Johnston Mills, of which Mr. Charlie W. Johnston, of Charlotte, N. C., is president. This mill is also running 50 hours a week, and wages have been reduced to the extent that the employees on most of the jobs in the mill are making less money for 50 hours than they were making prior to the time that the hours were increased from 40 hours. In this particular mill in the winding and spooling department the employees are paid by the pound—per pound of yarn. If the employees fail to make $11 a week, they are paid what they make, but if they make more than $12 a week the company takes it out of their check.

I have another mill, the Morgan Mill, in Laurinburg, N. C. This mill is also running 50 hours a week with no reduction in wages. Mr. Wood. Right there, may I interject? You say no reduction in wages. Do you mean hourly or weekly?

Mr. LISK. No reduction in wages by the hour.

Mr. Wood. They are paid, then, their regular hourly wage but they work 10 hours longer per week?

Mr. LISK. They work 50 hours.

Mr. WOOD. Making more per week but not more per hour?

Mr. Lisk. Yes. Mr. Chairman, I forgot to state at the beginning with regard to my comments on the Lancaster Cotton Mills as the five mills of which I made mention there, that Mr. Elliott White Springs, of Fort Hill, S. C., is the owner of these mills.

Here is the St. Paul Manufacturing Co., St. Paul, N. C., of which Brother Peel has spoke. I might say here that this mill is the one on which a decision was handed down by the Textile Labor Relations. Board asking that this mill reinstate former employees that had been discharged, which they never complied with. Later, when the N. R. A. was declared unconstitutional this mill started operation on 50 hours a week and the employees that were making 30 cents an hour, $2.40 a day, or $12 a week, were being paid after that 15 cents an

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