Mr. MATHESON. The second mortgage is held by the Hunter Co. stockholders, and the only ones who have much chance of getting anything are the preferred stockholders of the Hunter Co., of whom there are about 700.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. These two strikes took place, and the first one was very costly and placed the property in a rather embarrassing position, and after the second strike, or during the period when it was taking place, you got this loan from the R. F. C.? Is that correct?

Mr. MATHESON. After the second strike?

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Yes; after the second strike.

Mr. MATHESON. The second strike was on September 23. The R. F. C. loan was approved June 25.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Prior to the strike?

Mr. MATHESON. The first disbursement was October 29. You will recall this first strike was a Nation-wide strike. That is when the general strike was called.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Those are all the questions I had.

Mr. WOOD. As to the secretary who was discharged, how long had he worked for the company?

Mr. MATHESON. The secretary of what?

Mr. WOOD. Of the textile workers.

Mr. MATHESON. Mr. Rodgers?

Mr. WOOD. I don't know what his name is.

Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Mr. Moore. That is the name.

Mr. WOOD. Yes; Mr. Moore.

Mr. MATHESON. Mr. Moore had worked for the company, I think, since about 1899 off and on. I am positive he had not been in the employ of the company during all of that period.

Mr. WOOD. But he had most of the time?

Mr. MATHESON. I would say most of the time; yes, sir.

Mr. WOOD. I am informed that others you discharged were officers of the organization and members of the committee of the organization. How many did you discharge when you discharged Mr. Moore? Mr. MATHESON. Mr. Moore was the only man discharged when he was discharged. Moore was discharged, I think, March 19.

Mr. WOOD. When did you say you made application for that loan from the R. F. C.?

Mr. MATHESON. We made formal application March 19, 1935.
Mr. WOOD. And you received it June 5?

Mr. MATHESON. Yes; we received it June 5.

Mr. WOOD. Was that during the continuation of the strike? Did you receive that loan while the strike was in progress?

Mr. MATHESON. We received the loan June 25, prior to our knowledge of any trouble. That is when it was approved, Mr. Wood.

Mr. WOOD. What was the matter with this man Moore? He had been satisfactory to the company for 25 or 30 years. What was the occasion for his discharge? Did he suddenly become unsatisfactory?

Mr. MATHESON. Mr. Wood, he made the bonus for excellent work for several weeks prior to the time he was discharged, but, for the last 6 or 7 weeks prior to the time of his discharge, his record will show that his production was so low and his seconds so high that we have no idea what was the matter. We discussed this with him. We told him that he had to improve his work, or he would be automatically dismissed, as we automatically dismiss people in our weave

room. And the complete production of seconds is posted every week. I can read you, for instance, on February 16, Mr. Moore's production was 43 percent and his seconds 43.6 percent. On the 23d his production was 54 percent and his seconds 21.21 percent. On March 2 his production was 62 percent and his seconds 23.73. On March 9 his production was 60 percent and his seconds 17.42 percent. On March 16 his production was 62 percent and his seconds 14.97 percent. These dates I read are for the weeks ending.

Mr. WooD. You are just summing up his record for 7 or 8 weeks. How was his production over a space of 20 years? Do you have any figures on that?

Mr. MATHESON. He worked on different jobs during this period. Mr. WOOD. And he was very satisfactory during that time, wasn't he? He went away several times and stayed several weeks at a time, but each time he came back you gave him employment.

Mr. MATHESON. I discussed this with the superintendent of the plant, who was superintendent from about the year 1899 or 1900, and he said that his work was not satisfactory for many periods during these years, but he always felt that he should do something for him.

Mr. WOOD. You did not feel that way, though, then, after he was elected secretary of the organization? You changed your disposition toward him?

Mr. MATHESON. We have another superintendent. This was not the original superintendent.

Mr. WOOD. He was here in person and testified just the reverse of your testimony. A number of years ago he got a finger cut off in the factory.

Mr. KELLER. Two or three of them, wasn't it?

Mr. WOOD. I think it was three fingers. Yes; it was three fingers, How much did he get for that?

Mr. MATHESON. I have no knowledge of that, Mr. Wood. That was some years ago.

Mr. WOOD. He testified there wasn't any law that compelled you to compensate an employee as a result of an industrial accident in your plant, but that out of the fullness of your heart you paid $25 on his doctor bill, and that was just simply a gift; and that is all he got from the company.

Mr. MATHESON. That was 7 years prior to my birth, Mr. Wood. Mr. WOOD. Have you been a mill operator connected with the textile business?

Mr. MATHESON. I left school in 1927 and I have been with the Mooresville Cotton Mills ever since, having worked through every department in the mill.

Mr. WOOD. In what capacities?

Mr. MATHESON. I worked first as cost accountant, designer, and helper in the designing department; then I worked in the weave room; then was first assistant to the weave-room overseer; then assistant to the superintendent; then made superintendent. At that time the mill went into receivership and I was made sort of a general nuisance boy to the receiver, and later I was made manager under him, and after that I was made president of the mill.

Mr. WOOD. How much of the $3 stock do you own, or do you own any?

Mr. MATHESON. I own 37 shares.

Mr. WOOD. Well, that is a little over $100 worth of stock. That is a right good investment. What did you do when the conciliator came down there? The employees asked for a conciliator from the Labor Department. Did you deal with the conciliator?

Mr. MATHESON. Which conciliator was that?

Mr. Wood. From the Department of Labor.

Mr. MATHESON. There were several. There were people there at several different times. I don't know to which ones you refer.

Mr. WOOD. You know when the conciliator of the Federal Department of Labor came down there, don't you? Do you remember meeting him?

Mr. MATHESON. During the last strike; yes, sir.

Mr. WOOD. My information is that you did not deal with him at all. How about it?

Mr. MATHESON. The National Labor Relations Board man came down and I did deal with him. I discussed the whole matter and gave him all of the information we had relating to the strike.

Mr. Wood. Did you agree to put back any discharged employees? Mr. MATHESON. I did not agree to do anything with him; but our records will show that we had 450 employees working the first day of the strike, and we now have approximately 1,100 of our former employees.

Mr. WOOD. You did not agree to do anything with him, then? That is my information, and you corroborate it.

Mr. MATHESON. I did not make any agreement.

Mr. WOOD. Why is it you were so averse to dealing with the representatives of the Government in this matter when you were so anxious to deal with them when you wanted a loan of $800,000? The shoe was on the other foot then.

Mr. MATHESON. I have not been so adverse to these gentlemen, Mr. Wood.

Mr. WOOD. You did not have any business with him.

Mr. MATHESON. I have dealt with every one.

Mr. WOOD. There was nothing to discuss? That is the usual stock answer. What did you suppose he was down there for? Was it just a kind of social visit? Was he paying you a social visit?

Mr. MATHESON. I have dealt with every conciliator who has been there, in the most respectful manner I know how.

Mr. WOOD. You treated them respectfully, of course, but you just said you did not agree to do anything with them. You did not think so much of that Government representative, did you, as you did of the man who had the pocketbook, when he came down there? You know the National Labor Relations Act is a law.

Mr. MATHESON. We have complied with that law in every respect, Mr. Wood.

Mr. WOOD. By refusing to deal with the representatives of the National Labor Relations Board? Is that what you call compliance? Mr. MATHESON. I did not refuse to deal with him, but there was no point that he brought up.

Mr. WOOD. You just said it was nice weather, and treated him nicely, and invited him back, probably; but no business?

That is my information, direct, that he was unsuccessful in transacting any business with you.

Mr. MATHESON. That is really news to me, in a way, Mr. Wood, because, after talking to him, we have had absolutely no charge made against us.

Mr. WooD. A few days prior to the discharge of this secretary, the board has a meeting to ratify the loan, is that ture? I mean, to ratify the application for the loan. When did you have that meeting of the board of directors to ratify the application to the Reconstruction Finance Corporation for the loan? Have you any data as to the date of that meeting?

Mr. MATHESON. The board of directors met for the first time prior to the formal application for the loan on March 19, 1935.

Mr. Wood. I am not talking about that. This was a meeting of the stockholders and directors, the men who had to attach their signatures to the final application.

Mr. MATHESON. That meeting was held just prior.

Mr. Wood. That was about September 20, 1935, wasn't it? Rather it was September 18?

Mr. MATHESON. The meeting to which you refer, Mr. Wood, was only a meeting between the Mooresville stockholders and the creditors of the mill in order to get the mortgage waived for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation loan.

Mr. WOOD. Didn't you have to agree with some of those with which it was necessary to enter into this agreement, Mr. Matheson, that the expenses of the mill would be cut down, that there would be a more efficient management, and that it would be operated on a plane to make more dividends?

Mr. MATHESON. No, sir.

Mr. WOOD. What is your relation with your employees now? Is there any organization of your employees existing in your plant now, that is, of any name or any kind of an organization?

Mr. MATHESON. There probably is a union organization, but, to my knowledge, I don't know of any orgnization in our plant of any nature. We have never tried to form an organization of our own. Mr. WOOD. No kind of union at all, company union or otherwise? Mr. MATHESON. There might be a union.

Mr. WOOD. Do you have, in connection with your business, any kind of stock benefit society, or out-of-work society, or any benefit society of any kind?

Mr. MATHESON. No, sir.

Mr. Wood. No organization at all?

Mr. MATHESON. No, sir.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Matheson, where were you born?

Mr. MATHESON. I was born in Cheraw, S. C.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Where did you go to college?

Mr. MATHESON. I went to college at North Carolina State, at Raleigh.

Mr. RAMSPECK. You went into this mill immediately after graduation from college?

Mr. MATHESON. Right after June 7, 1927.

Mr. RAMSPECK. How many people are there in Mooresville? What is the population of Mooresville?

Mr. MATHESON. The population is approximately 6,000.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Are there any other industries there besides this

Mr. MATHESON. Only very small industries.

Mr. RAMSPECK. What sort of industries are the others?

Mr. MATHESON. They have a flour mill that is a very small unit; they have an ice factory, and a small oil mill. And out of the city limits there is another manufacturing unit on rayon, a branch of the Burlington Mills Co.

Mr. RAMSPECK. How many people does this rayon plant employ?
Mr. MATHESON. Approximately 300 to 350.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Is the name the Mooresville Cotton Mills?
Mr. MATHESON. Yes, sir; it is.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Then, the Mooresville Cotton Mills is the principal industry in the community, is it?

Mr. MATHESON. It is the principal industry of the community and of the county, and the entire town of Mooresville has been built around the Mooresville Cotton Mills and is absolutely dependent upon it for its livelihood.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Would the mill have been able to continue without the R. F. C. loan?

Mr. MATHESON. It would not. As far as our knowledge is concerned, there certainly would have been liquidation, because the mill at that time had sufficient assets to be liquidated and pay off the creditors.

Mr. RAMSPECK. What would have happened to the community if the mill had been liquidated?

Mr. MATHESON. If the mill had been liquidated, I would say at least 75 percent of the community would absolutely have been obliterated in a few weeks or within a few months time, I would say. There are 1,800 employees working at the mill, or anywhere between 1,500 and 2,000, with a pay roll of around $20,000 to $30,000. And with that taken away from the community no stores or anything could possibly have survived.

Mr. RAMSPECK. These people who worked for this mill would have had to move to some other town to find employment?

Mr. MATHESON. They either would have been on charity or would have found employment elsewhere.

Mr. RAMSPECK. How many of your employees belong to the textile union?

Mr. MATHESON. I have no information as to how many belong to the union, because I have never inquired. I do have an affidavit here giving the number of employees that were in the union when this last strike was called.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Is that the strike of 1935?

Mr. MATHESON. Yes; that is the strike of 1935.

This affidavit says:

My name is J. G. Cook and I have been working at the Mooresville Cotton Mills, Mooresville, N. C., for the past 10 years, and had worked off and on prior to that time. I joined the local union, no. 1221, but haven't paid any dues for about 6 months, and at a special meeting Thursday before the strike was called on Monday, September 23, 1935, there were 23 members present and 13 voted to strike and the balance didn't vote at all.

The charge made against the mill was discrimination against Tom Moore and Jimmy Rodgers. Tom Moore was in charge of the meeting. Red Lisk, union organizer, was present at this same meeting and he said that now is the best time for us to strike but he didn't give any reason.