You may submit the views in the records in the Ellenbogen hearing as I have the negatives for prints.

Yours fraternally,

PAUL E. DEAN, President. Local Union No. 2182 U. T. W. of A. 116 N. Sloan St., Clinton, S. C.

P. S.-Views of 15 families and the model homes they once lived in.

P. E. DEAN.

Mr. KELLER. Mr. Chairman, I move we adjourn, to meet here at 2:30 this afternoon.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. We will adjourn at this time until 2:30 this afternoon.

(Thereupon, at 12:50 p. m., a recess was taken until 2:30 p. m.)

AFTER RECESS

Mr. KELLER. Well, gentlemen, we will not wait longer but will proceed to hear Mr. Vincent.

I am going to ask you a series of questions if I may, Mr. Vincent.

STATEMENT OF M. D. VINCENT, COORDINATOR OF INDUSTRY STUDIES, REVIEW DIVISION, NATIONAL RECOVERY ADMINISTRATION

Mr. VINCENT. I will be happy to answer them if I can.

Mr. KELLER. Will you give your full name?

Mr. VINCENT. M. Ď. Vincent.

Mr. KELLER. Where are you from? What State are you originally from, Mr. Vincent?

Mr. VINCENT. Denver, Colo.

Mr. KELLER. What is your profession?

Mr. VINCENT. Well, I practiced law for several years and, in recent years, I have been an industrial executive, until the last 2 years I have been connected with the National Recovery Administration.

Mr. KELLER. Here in Washington?

Mr. VINCENT. Yes.

Mr. KELLER. What position do you occupy with that organization at the present time?

Mr. VINCENT. I am coordinator of industry studies, in the review division.

Mr. KELLER. I wish you might, for the benefit of this committee, state when your work is supposed to be finished there?

Mr. VINCENT. By March 15.

Mr. KELLER. Well, can your organization finish that work by that time as it ought to be done?

Mr. VINCENT. On a limited number of industry studies only. Mr. KELLER. How much longer would it take you to finish that as it ought to be finished for the record of all time?

Mr. VINCENT. Well, I would say that a staff of a substantial number of technically trained people could be employed for several months in completing an assembly and analysis of basic industry data and materials for a broadly representative number of industires.

Mr. KELLER. I bring out that for this reason, Mr. Vincent: from my knowledge of the inside of the National Recovery Administra

tion, it has occurred to me that the Congress ought not to permit the work that you are doing there, and I think I may add, doing exceedingly well, to pass out without being finished insofar as it can be of permanent benefit, and that is what I am trying to get you to state

to us.

Mr. VINCENT. There is a very large volume of rich and valuable material relating to the productive industries that ought to be utilized. It ought to be supplemented by necessary research that will add to it whatever pertinent data there is. There is much of it in other departments of the Government, and, if necessary to pursue the research further, to include any additional material that may not now be assembled.

Mr. KELLER. You say you would have to have a staff of-how did you express that-competent people, at least. Well, have you such a staff at the present time?

Mr. VINCENT. Yes.

Mr. KELLER. You have that?

Mr. VINCENT. Yes.

Mr. KELLER. In other words, if you were enabled to keep your present staff, you could, within the present year, finish that work? Mr. VINCENT. I would estimate so.

Mr. KELLER. That would include the indexing of the information you now have there?

Mr. VINCENT. Necessarily it would include an analysis, findings of facts, and summaries with appropriate indices; yes.

Mr. KELLER. In other words, if that were done, we would have a permanent record of what the National Recovery Administration accomplished and what it sought to accomplish?

Mr. VINCENT. Yes. These studies, of course, would be studies. that-well, let me describe one of them.

Mr. KELLER. Yes; if you will.

Mr. VINCENT. In a given instance, not in all instances, as should be done, we are making a survey of the history of the industry, the development of its technology, its manufacturing processes, its raw material sources and raw material markets, its distribution agencies and channels, trade practices, and labor conditions.

In some instances, we are including a study of corporate organizations, affiliations and financial structure.

When it takes that broad scope, the result, if it is done as it should be done, will be an authoritative body of material which, when analyzed and summarized, would be invaluable.

In fact, I would say that Congress, enacting legislation affecting industry, should have just such information to inform in order to enact the most intelligent and practicable legislation.

Mr. KELLER. Would it not also, Mr. Vincent, be of tremendous value to the men who are in the industry themselves, to know thoroughly, from the foundation of the history, growth, and development and results of their own industry?

Mr. VINCENT. Unquestionably.

Mr. KELLER. Would it not be of very great value to the men who are in every industry if every industry should be written up in that manner?

Mr. VINCENT. Yes; as a matter of fact, in a number of instances, representatives of industry have been very much interested in phases

of our study because the industries, themselves, have not ever assembled, in a comprehensive and thorough manner, basic industrial data and materials.

Mr. KELLER. In other words, in our country here, coming from all sections of the earth, we have done pretty much what the book says about Topsy-"We have just grewed", have we not, without much regard to background or origin?

Mr. VINCENT. Yes; in a highly individual way, the result being, at the moment, that in many of our important industries the units are too numerous and they are too widely distributed or disbursed to enable them to come together effectively and coordinate their activities into some form of concerted action which will stabilize the industry.

Mr. KELLER. In other words, if each industry itself, had a complete history of its own origin, growth, and development, and general results, the industries could get together much more readily through that intelligence than they could without it?

Mr. VINCENT. I am sure that is true, and I believe, perhaps, another effect would be this; operated as they have been the natural disposition heretofore is for plant management to look upon its problems from the individual plant management standpoint rather than from a broad industry standpoint.

Obviously, in some instances, the decision which a plant management might make is a perfectly sound decision for that individual plant but would be an unsound decision for the entire industry to make.

An example of that would be this; if a plant finds its inventories piling up, because of a slow market, good management properly begins an inventory control by shortening up its production. Its natural disposition is to do that and hold its prices rather than continue to produce and pile up inventories which it may be forced to put upon the market at reduced prices. As an individual plant management decision that is perfectly sound. Self-protection dictates it.

For an industry to make that decision is perfectly devastating in an economic sense, because it means an industry-wide curtailment of production rather than make its price structure respond to the market and help its goods to move by reduced prices to consumers. Mr. KELLER. In other words, that leads to another question that I want to ask you. I would gather from your last answer that we must view industry in what way, as a State, local, or national matter? Mr. VINCENT. Well, practically every industry has become national in the sense that the demand for its production is national. The cost of production in one State, unavoidably, affects the price of that product in every market. In some instances, to a less, and in some instances to a greater degree. But where these products of the same type or kind are produced in several different States they are competitive and the cost and prices in one State affects the market and the plant in another State just as wage rates in one State or area directly affect the wage rates in another area. The same is true of material cost.

Mr. KELLER. Well now, we have under discussion here at the present time the Ellenbogen bill, with which I am aware you are well acquainted, at least with the structure of it. I wish you would