too. Immediately thereafter they went on to a 3-shift basis of > hours each.

Mr. WOOD. How many men does he employ?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I don't know how many he employs; bu there are some 20 or more mills. There may be 12,000, or perhap 15,000. I don't know what the number is.

Then they had to get some more farmers and bring them into t mill. The textile workers who had had experience in the mills a who had given their lives to the industry, who were never taken b and who have not yet been taken back since the textile strike of 19 were too inefficient; so they went out and got inexperienced farm That did not happen in every case but it was the widespread prac Another thing that hampers our organization efforts to get workers into the union is the fear that they will not be able to re their jobs if they join the union. Certainly they cannot take active part or it means immediate and certain discharge.

We have a W. P. A. with the security wage. Just as soon as $4,800,000,000 appropriation was passed with the security cla it, the mills at St. Paul, N. C., cut wages down to 15 cents an and let the workers work 50 to 60 hours a week and told them i did not like it they could do as they pleased, that they couldn't any more on W. P. A.

Some of those workers struck. Unless somebody was a reg relief client on November 1, he cannot get W. P. A. jobs on the pi

A lot of the textile workers had the intestinal fortitude to j union when they could not get direct relief, despite all of th that they were not going to get on the W. P. A. job. They kn could not get on the W. P. A. job, and if they joined the un were not registered relief clients on November 1, it is just g Mills have started three shifts all over. Almost every weaving plant in North Carolina is on a three-shift basis. them are stopped; they cannot run; they have no orders. Not long ago Mr. Love's mill, the Burlington chain, did any more orders and they could not afford to run three s more, so they stretched the men out from 8 looms to 14 wages proportionately.

I do not like to say this, because this is the mill where start. But in the Cleveland Cloth Mill in Shelby, owned by friend Max Gardner, former Governor of the State of North some of the workers in that mill worked 80 hours a week, 1 day for 5 days during the week. Numbers and numbers of working 12 hours a day, two men performing the job. The pany says that it is voluntary. But workers have been disc not doing it.

Mr. WOOD. That is since the N. R. A. was declared u tional?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. That was since N. R. A.

Mr. WOOD. What was he working before the N. R. A. w unconstitutional?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Eight hours; two shifts of 8 hour hours maximum. But that is not an outstanding exam is just ordinary, we might say. We must have some reg have to have it. The Federal Government is the only ag United States that can give it to us. The mills themsel

going to get together. They never have and they never will. Conditions are getting worse and worse now and are becoming intensified as the weeks go by. They are far worse now than they were a few months ago.

Mr. WOOD. Is this the Mr. Gardner who is the moving spirit among the textile manufacturers in the South?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I understand that Mr. Gardner is employed by the Rayon Institute and makes a salary of a hundred thousand dollars a year. His office is here in Washington. Naturally his plant there in Shelby-and he owns stock in a number of other mills-has been sort of a model mill. I will say this, that at one time the Cleveland Cloth Mill paid the best wages of any mill in the South.

Mr. KELLER. I do not want to embarrass you nor to interrupt you; you are talking exceedingly well. However, I do want to ask you this question. What is going to happen if we pass a law and the Supreme Court says to us "Nothing doing"? In other words, if the Supreme Court declares it null and void, then what?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I wish I knew.

Mr. KELLER. I wish I did too.

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. If you will permit me to do it I would like to go over a number of the mills I have selected, starting at the western end of the State and going to the eastern end of the State.

Mr. KELLER. Have they been named before?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I think perhaps they have been named ast among the worst offenders. But I would like to get in the list, if I

may.

Mr. KELLER. I am not going to try to limit you, Mr. Christopher, but I would like to call your attention to this fact: We are holding hearings long hours and are doing it gladly, as you may rest assured. But I want you chaps to make it snappy.

Mr. RAMSPECK. I would like to have it put in the record.

Mr. KELLER. Unless there is some special reason for it being read I think it is a good idea. Is there any reason why you cannot file it? Mr. CHRISTOPHER. It is not in shape to do that now. I can submit it later.

Mr. KELLER. Then, will you do that?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes; I will do it.

Mr. KELLER. That will be fine, and it will save time.

Mr. WOOD. The gentleman who owned the 20 mills was Mr. Love? Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes, that was Mr. Love. I don't know whether he owns it or not, but he is the head of it.

Mr. WOOD. What is the condition in those mills since the N. R. A. was voided? Have they stretched the hours and reduced the wages and speeded up?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Well, to this extent; they have what is known as the 8-hour shift, of course, but they are running 24 hours a day.. Quite a number of the workers are asked to work 12 hours a day.. And another one comes on the night shift, and in that way they build' up 24 hours a day. But they eliminate a worker. I do not mean eliminate, but they just have not added on so many.

Mr. WOOD. Has there been any change in these 20 mills since N. R. A. was voided, that is, in the wage standard? Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes, there has been.

Mr. WOOD. Have there been any reductions?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes, sir, there have been. The weavers on one fabric, as I said a little while ago, have been stretched from 8 looms to the weaver at a rate, I believe, of 80 cents a hundred thousand picks, to 14 looms now, and they are getting paid about 44 cents per hundred thousand picks.

Mr. WOOD. Do you know any mill in your district now maintaining the N. R. A. standard, that is, that have not gotten away from the N. R. A. standard?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. That is, doing it completely?

Mr. WOOD. Yes; any who have completely complied with the 40-hour week, the wage standards, and in connection with the stretchout system?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. No, sir; I do not; not a single mill.

Mr. WOOD. All of them have begun to drift away from it?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes, sir; they have.

Mr. WOOD. And have increased their hours or reduced wages?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. They stretched out the workers or sniped on them.

Mr. Wood. Or speeded up?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes, sir; they have.

Mr. RAMSPECK. You made the statement that all of the mills villages in the South had houses that had running water when it rained. Can you name any mills in Georgia that are in that condition?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I think I said in North Carolina.

Mr. RAMSPECK. You used the expression "the South." That is why I wanted you to particularize in your statement with respect to the State of Georgia.

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I am quite sure there are a number of houses in Georgia.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Are you personally familiar with any of the mills in Georgia? Have you been to any of them personally?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes, sir; I have been down there.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Which mills in Georgia have you visited?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I have been through there from Greenville. down to Gainesville and Atlanta and on down to Newnan and West Point.

Mr. RAMSPECK. What mills in Atlanta have you been in? Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I have never been out to the mill village hill in Atlanta. My work is all confined to the State of North Carolina. I was not down there in an official capacity.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Your statement about the condition of houses did not apply to the State of Georgia?

But

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. No, sir. I limited it to North Carolina. I am willing to make this statement; that I am quite sure there are mills in Georgia where the workers have to carry cups to catch the water when it rains.

Mr. RAMSPECK. I want to make this suggestion to you and to all of the rest of you who are interested in getting action on this matter: Do not make those charges unless you can back them up. The members of this committee know that I am not here to defend, and have not for the past 6 years defended any wrong conditions in industry in my State. And I never will do it as long as I stay here. But I like to have the facts. I do not think any general indictment helps your case unless you can state the facts of your own knowledge.

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I can give you all you want in North Carolina. Mr. RAMSPECK. I will say quite frankly that I do not know of any such condition in my district, although there are plenty of conditions that I would like to see improved. But I do not know of any that bad.

There is one other question that I would like to ask the witness. Mr. KELLER. Go right ahead.

Mr. RAMSPECK. Are you familiar with the Cramerton Mill village in North Carolina?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes; I have been there.

Mr. RAMSPECK. What are the conditions there?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Those houses are fairly nice. They are bungalows. But the other day Mr. Cramer stretched out his spinners and cut their wages.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. I would like to have you tell us just what tactics the employers use to prevent the workers from joining a union and maintaining their membership in the union of the American Federation of Labor?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Well, that is a long story.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Let me condense the question as much as I can by asking you if they employ secret-service systems or spy systems. by which to ferret out those who belong to the union?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. That has been very hard for us to prove. We know of one man who was in the State of North Carolina who went from mill to mill and worked like that; but I don't know where he is. now. We discovered him in the Stonecutter Mill in Spindale, N. C.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Do you think they use a system in learning what the union is doing and who belongs to it with the idea of intimidating the workers?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Oh, yes. They have their pets. I think sometimes they do not necessarily hire the workers to do it but there are some who are so scared of their jobs and are so desirous of staying in the good graces of the bosses that they will go to the union meeting and then come back and tell it of their own volition.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Sometimes workers are furnished the employer by certain agencies whose responsibility is, when he goes on the job, to report to the agency all of the activities of the workers in the plant.. The agency then reports to the employer?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. Yes; that is true. With respect to the case I mentioned, we learned in the Stonecutter Mill in Spindale, N. C., this fellow worked from some agency in Atlanta, Ga., and he sent his reports down to the Atlanta office, and the Atlanta office, in turn, sent them back to the mill.

Mr. RAMSPECK. What agency in Atlanta was that?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I do not know the name, sir. It went to a postoffice box, but the fellow later confessed how it was done.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. That meeting of the manufacturers to which you referred right after the N. R. A. was declared unconstitutional was one of many meetings of manufacturers all over the country to resolve to carry on conditions as applying under the code. You will remember that Congress was in session at that time and the Wagner-Connery labor disputes bill was before Congress, and the employers through their associations felt that by the continuation of the conditions apply

ing under the codes they would be able to defeat the enactment of the Wagner-Connery Act. As I understand it, that was one of the purposes. And it was quite the general practice of the manufacturers to make that pledge among themselves to carry on the conditions as they applied under the code. Was that the case down there to which you referred?

Mr. CHRISTOPHER. I think that has some bearing on why they did it; yes, sir. I would like to qualify the statement. I believe there were quite a number of manufacturers, and in fact I might say the majority of them, who were very desirous of maintaining code standards. But they have not been able to do it because of the chiseling of those who did not want to do it.

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Well, that is true in all industries.
Mr. KELLER. I will now call Mr. T. F. Moore.

STATEMENT OF T. F. MOORE, PRESIDENT, LOCAL NO. 1221, UNITED TEXTILE WORKERS OF AMERICA, MOORESVILLE,

N. C.

Mr. KELLER. Will you please state your name and residence? Mr. MOORE. My name is T. F. Moore. I am president of Local No. 1221, United Textile Workers of America, Mooresville, N. C. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the Committee, I have a statement which is, you might say, just in the form of stating conditions in one particular plant, the Mooresville Cotton Mill.

I went to work for the Mooresville Cotton Mill when I was less than 12 years of age. I lost three fingers of my right hand. Mr. KELLER. How did you come to do that?

Mr. MOORE. Got them caught in the spinning frame.

Mr. KELLER. It was not fenced in?

Mr. MOORE. Yes, it was; but it was an old type of machine and the door could very easily come out of it. I was a small kid, less than 12 years old.

Mr. KELLER. Go right ahead, Mr. Moore.

Mr. MOORE. Since that time I worked approximately 26 years for this one firm. My work apparently seemed to be very satisfactory until I was elected the president of the local union on March 3, 1934. Four years previous to that time this hand began giving me trouble, and the second hand at that time was very sympathetic with me. At that time I was not in the labor movement, and he put me on a job that I could handle very easily because my hand was giving me trouble. After I got in the labor movement and began taking an active part, they put me back on the job that I had been taken off of, and I could not make the grade, so they fired me last March 18 and evicted me from my home in April and set my furniture out in the street. And I have not been able to get work since that time.

Then they commenced dropping off members of our local right along until the 17th of September they discharged our financial secretary. We resented that, and a strike was called. The strike became effective September 23.

The morning of the strike the gates were guarded by a number of deputy sheriffs. We had no violence at all that day, but the next day when we came out there were 49 State patrolmen at the plant. In the State of North Carolina they are supposed to use the highway