come in for 5 or 8 hours or 2 hours Thursday afternoon to do that kind of work. There are going to be a lot of requests.

What we are going to have to do-and we intend to appoint a committee to provide recommendations and suggestions and supervision— we are going to have to make sure that the best requests that are made are the ones that we will follow up on so that people just do not get lost in big cities and slum areas.

Senator JAVITS. As to your analogy with the Peace Corps all over the world, I must say I see some very marked differences and for this reason: We had roughly 5,000 technicians working in the technical assistance program before the Peace Corps was established. Therefore, doubling that was quite an addition, an addition that represented the presence of the United States in a foreign country which in itself is a significant contribution.

No such situation would obtain here. We are all Americans. No place on earth has as complicated and as complete a network of private and governmental operations, in the welfare field as we have in this country.

I cannot agree with you that there are no people available to work 24 hours a day. Those youth board workers, to whom you referred, work 24 hours a day. There are lots of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers and Jewish rabbis who work 24 hours a day. You and I both know volunteers in hundreds of organizations from coast to coast who work 24 hours a day.

But, be that as it may, I still agree that there is a need. I am trying to articulate how we can best fill it.

Would it be the policy of the Corps to block out and omit areas where there already is service, rather than to put them in to try to lead or organize in those areas, and to concentrate upon the areas which really lack this type of leadership material, whether it is Eskimos or Indians or whatever place or pocket of need of this type is shown which really is unattended?

Mr. KENNEDY. That is correct; that would be the area that obviously you would concentrate on.

Senator JAVITS. May I ask you this-it is a challenging thing to me suppose there is no demand? You might get a situation where there is no demand. Right now, the Attorney General is deeply concerned with civil rights. So am I. So are a lot of other people. The world, in a sense, is waiting for what you are going to do about this national crisis. Suppose you do have a pocket of great need in a southern State for migrant workers or some other group and they are deeply concerned that your National Service Corps is going to come in there and the first thing it is going to do is strike out at segregation and, therefore, they will not invite them; what happens then?

Mr. KENNEDY. If they do not invite them they won't go, Senator. Senator JAVITS. So we will continue to have, without any question, some pockets of need and difficulty even with the Service Corps. We will agree on that. We cannot deal with everything.

Mr. KENNEDY. That is right.

Senator JAVITS. So the fundamental concept would rest upon their being asked.

Mr. KENNEDY. That is correct.

Senator JAVITS. I asked Secretary Wirtz, yesterday, about the possibility of establishing this Corps perhaps on a National Guard basis, a State basis, and giving the State some help and even some Federal status in setting it up, on the ground that it might then-I am not convinced it is the right approach, either, I am just throwing it out as an idea-be better interwoven with the local; that is, the State and municipal structure of organization, governmental, and private.

Do you think there is anything to that?

Mr. KENNEDY. I think there is some merit to that. We would hope that out of this, Senator, if the bill is passed, that the various States would establish their own organization. That is what happened from our experience with the Peace Corps.

Now, I suppose, there are a dozen countries who have formed their own Peace Corps. Some are operating internally, some are sending

volunteers to other countries.

We would hope, if this program goes into operation and is effective, that the States and localities, where they can, will establish their own organizations which will perform the same kind of functions.

I think that until this is operating and going and established with all of the advantages that it has, because it is associated-it is a national movement rather than just a local movement-I think until that has been established and operating, it is much more difficult to get a local organization started.

Senator JAVITS. What will be its policy on raiding existing organizations; State, Federal, municipal, voluntary, which have a lot of very good personnel, or will this National Service Corps seek only new recruits as it were?

Mr. KENNEDY. It will be just new recruits. We feel it could not possibly be effective unless it has a close working relationship with organizations that are already in existence. This is quite clear that we are not going near organizations that are already in existence and have their own programs.

Senator JAVITS. In terms of its training, do you assume it will be trained on the Federal level or will an effort be made to train this National Service Corps in association with current programs, both governmental and private?

Mr. KENNEDY. We have talked to some universities and institutions about doing the training. It will probably be spread across the United States. We intend to go to local institutions and have the training

done there.

Senator JAVITS. Now, in view of the fact again that this is not establishing an American presence, but is plunging this elite group, which I call it again and I hope it will be, into the totality of our Nation, is it intended that it shall be distinguished in some way with a uniform, insignia, some designation which will give it an identifiable character where it operates?

Mr. KENNEDY. I have never heard that suggested, Senator. I am glad to consider it. I think we would want to take some care on it. Maybe it would be an insignia on the arm or shoulder.

Senator JAVITS. Again I am thinking not in terms of any categoric statement by me that this is the way it ought to be, but I am trying to develop the idea with you.

Mr. KENNEDY. I understand.

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Senator JAVITS. Now, finally, as you know, I have been having a grave problem here with the administration of new Federal programs and the utilization of Federal funds in respect of the pattern of discrimination.

Will this be administered as a completely nondiscriminatory and unsegregated program with Negroes and whites alike serving and serving anywhere that their services are requested?

Mr. KENNEDY. That is correct.

Senator JAVITS. With the assignment determined by those who are directing the activity rather than based on the request?

Mr. KENNEDY. That is correct. Obviously, there would be no segregation in the operation of the program any more than there is in the operation of the Peace Corps and individuals would be selected for assignments based on their skill, their background, their ability, not on their race, color, or religion.

Senator JAVITS. And they will be sent wherever their talents will be best utilized, whether or not the local social structure demands segregation which we are all suffering with right now?

Mr. KENNEDY. That is correct.

Senator JAVITS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KENNEDY. All assignments will be based, as I say, on skill and ability, not on race, color, or creed.

Senator TOWER. Mr. Attorney General, does there not exist any sort of clearinghouse for information about the various voluntary agencies that are currently in the field on a Federal level?

Mr. KENNEDY. I do not know about that, Senator, but I am sure we can obtain that information or tell you where that information can be gotten.

Senator TOWER. Would it seem advisable and perhaps a good supplement to this proposed program to have such a clearinghouse in the event that there are people who would like to volunteer service to voluntary agencies, but do not know how to go about doing it?

Mr. KENNEDY. I think that is a good idea, Senator.

Senator TOWER. I would further ask, since you are assaulting diverse problems, such as the Indian problem, the problem of mental institutions, problems of illiteracy, problems in the slums, sociological problems, would this require different types of training for the various people?

Mr. KENNEDY. That is right.

Senator TOWER. You are going to have to decide initially how many people to train for one kind of activity, and so forth.

Do you have any criteria for making that determination?

Mr. KENNEDY. We are not going to start out with 5,000. We are going to have to build up if the program is passed by Congress. We are then going to be looking at the requests that are made. As we see the trend that they take, we will be deciding what institution, what kind of training our people will need.

As I say, we felt out a number of institutions and universities about conducting the training so we know where they can go if we want to utilize them.

But I think if Congress passes this bill, we are going to move slowly with a thousand and then gradually go up to 5,000. We are not going to go to 5,000 right away. We will see where the requests are made,

where we can perform the best kind of service, and then decide about the training as we go along.

Senator TOWER. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General.

Senator WILLIAMS. I have just one observation.

I want to say that Senator Javits, a most valued member of the subcommittee and a cosponsor of the bill, has very significantly highlighted the objective here of corpsmen going to areas of need-unattended need, I believe the word was, Senator Javits.

Just within the last month we had two tragic examples of unattended need. Within 3 weeks, Father John Wagner, a parish priest in San Antonio, who has been very helpful to the Migratory Labor Subcommittee, called the subcommittee for help. He needed help for a family of 10 who had left San Antonio in a pickup truck, mother, father, and 8 kids. With the kids all standing in back of the truck, they had journeyed up into Missouri to earn their living harvesting crops. When they got there, two of the youngsters were sick and the diagnosis was polio; a third was suspected to be a polio patient. Father Wagner called a subcommittee of the U.S. Senate because he needed help to get the sick kids in that family back to San Antonio where there was hospital care available which could not be found in this little community in Missouri.

I will say that we failed to get the cooperation of the Air Force and he took it upon himself to underwrite the $730 airplane fare to get these youngsters back to San Antonio where he had hospital beds.

It developed that it was not polio. But here is the point. These youngsters in this day and age, when we have the cure for polio, had not had their immunization shots.

This is one of the unattended needs. Health care for poor people who happen to be migratory farmworkers.

The other we all know because it has been more widely publicized. A busload of men, women, and children went off the road into a canal down in Florida and 15 children were drowned. The children were there because there was no one to take care of them back in their homes. This is another unattended need: Day care for kids whose parents have to go out every day, both mother and father, and harvest the crops.

This is another area that you have addressed yourself to.

I will say, finally, that we are certainly grateful that this noble legislation has the support of Senator Javits. We are very grateful for your contribution this morning, Senator.

Senator JAVITS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

If the Chair will yield, I would like to ask the Attorney General one other question.

Mr. Attorney General, of course, I will assume that you will be very watchful that we in the Congress and in the country do not assume that, because we have 5,000 elite corpsmen, this is going to solve everything. You still need day care, as the chairman said, and you still need laws dealing with education, sanitary facilities, and housing for migratory workers, et cetera. Indeed they may highlight our need.

Now, the States are very restive about one thing especially in a Federal program, and that is coordination with them. There is much complaint, and that goes for my own State of New York, about

the capability of the Federal Government to deal directly with municipalities and bypassing the State.

May I ask you this question: In the administration of this act, is it fair to say that it is intended to have complete coordination with the State? Where a State-and this is possible, we are seeing it in Mississippi right now-just arbitrarily will not cooperate, and the need is very clear, then the Federal Government will reserve the right to go in and meet the need as a normal operating procedure, although the first effort will be made to cooperate and work through the State when you are planning to go into any part of the State? Mr. KENNEDY. You have analyzed it correctly.

Senator JAVITS. You agree with that and that is the way it will run?

Mr. KENNEDY. Yes, sir. We expect to go through the State, work with the State, and have the cooperation of the State. In the last analysis, if there is a request from a local community and we feel that request should be met and the objection to it is arbitrary, then we might nevertheless go in and do the work.

Senator JAVITS. May we as lawyers take it one step further and say that in that case you would expect that the burden of proof would be on the Federal Government to establish that it was an arbitrary denial by the State and that it was an urgent need requiring bypassing the State?

Mr. KENNEDY. It would be. There is a letter, I think, contained in here from Governor Brown which goes into that in some detail. We would be in full agreement with what you have described and also the way he has put it in his letter.

Senator JAVITS. Thank you.

Senator WILLIAMS. Thank you very much, Mr. Attorney General. Mr. KENNEDY. Thank you.

Senator WILLIAMS. I see our colleague, Senator Bob Bartlett, of Alaska, here.

We welcome you to our hearing on this bill, Senator Bartlett. We are delighted to have you with us.

STATEMENT OF HON. E. L. BARTLETT, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ALASKA

Senator BARTLETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator WILLIAMS. We have had a description of some of the needs in the State of Alaska.

Senator BARTLETT. I am willing to speak about Alaska at length in this connection, Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee. I have here a prepared statement. I do not desire, unless you want me to, to read it all. I would ask your permission to file it. Senator WILLIAMS. We will be glad to have your statement included in the record.

You may summarize it in your own words.

Senator BARTLETT. I will deviate, with your permission, a bit from the statement, Mr. Chairman.

From what has been said here during the questioning of the Attorney General, I foresee the possibility, distant though it may be, that the personnel of this Corps, once organized, might not be desired in