would be to start at the home base, say in San Antonio, Tex., out of which a great stream of migrant workers move each year, and become acquainted with the people there at their home base. Then to move with them, as they go North with the sun and the crops, in a mobile unit made up of several corpsmen, one perhaps with special abilities for literacy and citizenship training, another, or perhaps even the same person, with some knowledge of and techniques for recreation, another member of the team with skills in public health and sanitation who could move with the migrant group for almost the whole period of their migration.

They could take advantage of the off hours, and sometimes, as you know so well, the off days and weeks for the education of the group. Another type of migrant situation is where the seasonal labor is largely residential and commutes daily or weekly within a reasonable range of distance. They have a permanent home base. I think of the citizens in the Central Valley of California, in Stockton, Merced, or Modesto.

I believe a permanently located crew of corpsmen could work with that kind of people, again during their off-season and during their off hours. They would not have to be mobile and go with them.

There are two separate and distinct types of seasonal or migratory labor, and to both of these the National Service Corps could be of great help by adapting to their present pattern.

Senator WILLIAMS. I certainly agree that in the period of the year before the harvest, from the end of harvest in the fall to the beginning of the harvest in the spring, there are large concentrations of migrant farm families. San Antonio is one of the major areas of concentration.

Father Wagner, as you know, came to testify before the Subcommittee on Migratory Labor with three of his friends who are farmworkers. They had had no work from October until they left. San Antonio in March. Here they are idle but available for the kind of service that you have defined. This is a very suitable situation for education, particularly. You have extended this idea from the home base up the stream, which I would think could evolve, too. Monsignor O'Rourke, do you want to amplify any of Father Vizzard's remarks?

Reverend O'ROURKE. Thank you, Senator. I would like to underscore the fine statement that Father Vizzard has made, and comment perhaps in a slightly different context.

During the past 3 years the Catholic Rural Life Conference has joined forces with two other national religious organizations in a program to stabilize migrants and ex-migrants. As you doubtless know, Senator, there are a growing number of ex-migrants who are settling and leaving the migrant stream because work is not easily available to them in the migrant stream. The task is formidable, and is, I think, extremely important because it might represent an enduring solution.

We are aiming now not merely at meeting the immediate problem of today and tomorrow, but at an enduring solution which involves such things as training in new skills; real, true integration in the communities in which they live; efforts to place them in jobs which they have been trained for; and legal counsel as they buy new homes and automobiles and engage in other transactions.

These are tasks that have not been pursued by any substantial number of people in the past. It is a tremendous new field for activity. We feel that if our efforts and those of the other two organizations were multiplied a hundredfold they would still be inadequate to the tremendous tasks we are now just entering upon, so it would seem to me that well-trained service corpsmen might be a very valuable adjunct to efforts of this sort to provide information and counsel and coordination, and perhaps to inject new blood into a tired, old community.

The migrants, themselves, and the ex-migrants, don't have the education and the training that is needed to become effective leaders yet. Some of the other memers of the community have lived with this problem so long that they scarcely even recognize its dimensions or its implications. A tactful, well-informed corpsman might be a very valuable adjunct to the resources we are now working with.

Senator WILLIAMS. I missed one of your early statements, Monsignor. Did you say your organization has joined with two other national religious groups?

Reverend O'ROURKE. Yes, Senator.

Senator WILLIAMS. Who are they?

Reverend O'ROURKE. The Bishop's Committee for the Spanish Speaking, with headquarters at San Antonio, Tex.; and the Bishop's Committee for Migrant Workers, with headquarters at Chicago.

We have made a little team. This project has progressed for 3 years. We are now forming plans for continuation through another 3 years. We are trying to urge other organizations to join forces either in the

communities where we work or in other communities.

Our projects thus far have been in the neighborhood of San Antonio, Tex., in the neighborhood of Stockton, Calif., and a group of five projects scattered through the North Central States where migrants who go up the funnel from Texas are most prominently seen. There settlement has begun and increasing numbers of ex-migrants are being seen in the small cities like Saginaw, Mich., and East Lansing, Mich., and Rochelle, Ill., and places of that sort.

Senator WILLIAMS. There are two criticisms of this program that we frequently hear: One is that given the monumental dimenson of human needs in the areas where we feel volunteers could be useful, 5,000 volunteers would hardly scratch the surface of the need for people. The program being so small, why even raise hopes? It can't be effective because it is inadequate in terms of the number of people to be recruited into the service.

Would you gentlemen comment on that?

Reverend VIZZARD. As I mentioned, Senator, in my formal statement, we believe that the service corps would act as a catalyst. By calling attention to and focusing attention on these urgent, unmet needs, it will make other citizens aware of these needs and concerned about these needs far beyond the service corps volunteers themselves. It is true that 5,000 volunteers are only a drop in the bucket, but as you know from your study of chemistry, often only one drop of a catalyst is required to produce a major change. We hope and we believe that the service corpsmen, only a few here and a few there, will act as a catalyst to stir up interest and activity on the part of thousands of others, either full time or part time.

Senator WILLIAMS. Another criticism that we hear is that if we have a program of governmentally recruited volunteers in these areas of social welfare, private citizens who are giving part of their time to social service, and others who might give part of their time, might feel less responsibility, saying to themselves, "Well, someone else will do it, so I am relieved of my personal obligation.'

Would you comment on that?

Reverend VIZZARD. Yes. In the first place, Senator, volunteers would not move into a community unless that community has sought them. That means there has to be some recognition of the need in that community. There have to be at least leaders in the community who call for help and presumably would cooperate in whatever programs are developed.

What is more, this may not be an analytical answer to this problem, but work at the number of welfare and service organizations that wholeheartedly support this legislation and are looking for help and encouragement through this program. If they anticipated a serious problem of the nature you outline, they would not be supporting the

program.

Senator WILLIAMS. I certainly agree with you. Just take an average community in the migratory worker sphere of life. If there is a welfare agency operating in many of the States or in these communities, it is an exception. However, if a program is started by someone who has qualifications and ability, and who is working on a program that would have continuity and not be just a one-shot operation, I would think that this would attract part-time people to help the professional.

Reverend VIZZARD. I think Monsignor O'Rourke can witness the fact that our small efforts have attracted many volunteers to work that they would not otherwise be engaged in to the benefit of migrants. Senator WILLIAMS. I would like to hear something about that. Reverend O'ROURKE. Senator, I would say that assumption that there are large numbers of volunteer social workers combing the neighborhoods in which, let us say, our Mexican-Americans live in California and Texas, is quite far from the case.

I recall an instance recently in Fresno, Calif., where, as you may know, a special agricultural employment office has been established by the State employment service specifically for workers, many of whom are migrants or ex-migrants. The great defect in the program is the fact that outside of the immediate environs of Fresno, most of the potential workers either know nothing of this service, or, knowing it, have no transportation into the city, or for one reason or another never register or avail themselves of the service that could increase their days of employment every year.

In some communities within 15 miles of Fresno I doubt that a social worker is called more than a half dozen times a year. A plea was made while I was there for this very sort of service. Can we find someone who will take the time and effort to go to these people and tell them that there is available this service which they need and which would be of service to the growers, also.

So particularly among these extremely poor people, and in areas where social organization is very incomplete, I don't think the idea of overstaffing or of duplicating existing efforts is a serious problem.

Senator WILLIAMS. I have one final question, gentlemen.

I recall so vividly the response, particularly on college campuses, to the Peace Corps when it was first proposed by President Kennedy. It was a monumental response, as you know. I was on several campuses right after it was advanced and overwhelming interest was shown by students.

Of course, this response has been followed by a flood of applications of a dimension that permits the Administrator to select for service only the finest kind of people. Do you feel that there would be similar response to a National Service Corps?

Reverend VIZZARD. I am certain there would be, Senator. I, myself, in the last several months, have spoken to a number of college student groups about this particular possibility, and I witnessed their enthusiastic reception of the idea. In private conversations there was the indication that many of them would be willing and even anxious to volunteer and to serve. A further corroboration of this judgment is the fact that this summer thousands-literally thousands of college students will be serving and working in precisely the same types of areas and jobs and needs that the National Service Corps will be directed to.

Senator WILLIAMS. I agree, although my sample is limited to the State of New Jersey. The subcommittee went to Princeton University last week, and this was the reaction of the student body. We have been advised that at Rutgers, our State university, there is the same response from young people who are really searching for ways to do good work and be of service to less fortunate people.

Reverend VIZZARD. As you have noticed, Senator, one of the Catholic agencies which has enthusiastically endorsed this idea is the National Federation of Catholic College Students. I am in almost daily contact with the executive secretary of that federation and she tells me that in her contacts, in the correspondence and personal visits, she finds true enthusiasm about the idea and has no doubt whatever that the National Service Corps will have an abundance of volunteers.

Senator WILLIAMS. Senator Pell, do you have any questions or observations?

Senator PELL. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to come and listen to the hearing. As you know, I am a cosponsor of this bill and strongly support it. I am very much interested in being here.

Senator WILLIAMS. Gentlemen, our deepest gratitude to you.
Reverend VIZZARD. Thank you, sir.

Senator WILLIAMS. Thank you, gentlemen, for coming before the committee. We have been afforded the highest honor. Both the senior Senator from Maryland and the junior Senator from Maryland have come to us to introduce our next witness.

Senator Beall?

Senator BEALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It is a pleasure for me to present the newly elected president of the Baltimore City Council, who I have known for some time. He is here today to testify on this bill, S. 1321.

Without any further ado, I want to say I thoroughly endorse what Mr. D'Alesandro is about to say.

Senator WILLIAMS. We appreciate the introduction and certainly most appreciate the support for the legislation. I take it that is the import of your last statement, Senator Beall.

Senator BEALL. That is correct.

Senator WILLIAMS. Senator Brewster?

Senator BREWSTER. Mr. Chairman, I would also like to introduce to the chairman and the committee the next witness, the president of the City Council of Baltimore, Thomas D'Alesandro, III. We can say with pride that Mr. D'Alesandro truly and easily understands the problems of a great metropolitan city. His father was three times mayor of Baltimore City, was a Member of the House of Representatives of the United States, and was there chairman of the District Committee. His father is now a member of the Federal Renegotiation Board, so Mr. D'Alesandro, III grew up in public service.

More recently he, himself, has been the chairman of the board of election supervisors of Baltimore, appointed as president of the City Council of Baltimore, and was recently overwhelmingly elected president of the City Council of Baltimore.

So it is with a great deal of pleasure and pride that I introduce the president of the City Council of Baltimore, Thomas D'Alesandro, III. Senator WILLIAMS. I am sure you share with Senator Beall the feeling of pride in the statement that Mr. D'Alesandro is about to make. Senator BREWSTER. That is certainly correct.

Senator WILLIAMS. To have Senators Beall and Brewster both for this bill gives us a flying start.

Mr. D'ALESANDRO. Maybe I better quit before I start.

Senator WILLIAMS. You are off to a flying start with those introductions.

Thank you very much.

We are certainly delighted to see you and know of your good work. It will mean a great deal to have your statement.

STATEMENT OF THOMAS D'ALESANDRO III, PRESIDENT, BALTIMORE CITY COUNCIL; ACCOMPANIED BY STANLEY MAZER, ASSISTANT TO THE MAYOR OF BALTIMORE FOR HUMAN RENEWAL COMMISSION

Mr. D'ALESANDRO. Thank you, Senator.

I wish to thank Senator Beall and Senator Brewster for accompanying me to this committee meeting and at the same time to introduce me to you.

I have with me Mr. Stanley Mazer, assistant to the mayor for our Human Renewal Commission in Baltimore.

I am Thomas J. D'Alesandro III, president of the City Council of Baltimore, and I am accompanied by Stanley Z. Mazer, assistant to the mayor for human renewal.

The National Service Corps could help us in Baltimore to begin meeting our urban problems in the following categories:

(a) Education-especially school dropouts.

(b) Aid to youth groups.

(c) Housing-how to live in an urban home.

(d) The aged or the senior citizen.