A third and final point is the obvious cultural and physical advantages to the community which is served by any group of volunteers. I must say I am not as optimistic about the large number of college students who might be attracted to this program, except as it might be possible for them to be involved in summertime work.

I question somewhat the comparison of volunteer service while a student in college to what is proposed here. The former is avocational, and I think this is vocational at least for a limited period of time. I believe the whole attitude is different between an avocation and a vocation.

This is simply one of the problems involved, certainly not a serious one, and my own view is simply if it is right to do it, start doing it and you will have the right people to carry it on.

Senator WILLIAMS. Thank you very much.

Mr. Moss, do you want to describe your experience? Do you have a view on this bill?

Mr. Moss. I was hired by the Institute of Labor Relations at Rutgers University, to carry out a study on a Puerto Rican community in Perth Amboy.

The institute wanted to give the study a personal touch and so I was hired because I speak Spanish and I have lived in Latin America. I was instructed to go in and make my presence felt by more than just asking questions.

I participated in their community life, and went to their dances, weddings, and into their apartments for dinner. In the process of doing this I saw a community which is trying to organize itself, but doesn't really know where it is going, doesn't have the faintest idea how to go about organizing itself. For example, one problem was to get an office with a full-time staff. Most of the Puerto Ricans are factory workers. They can't get away from their work until the evening. They need a staff person to go into their community and show an interest.

They just need people to show an interest, people who are willing to give up a little bit of time, people to push them a little bit, people to work along with them.

Mr. STALLEY. Senator, I wonder if it might be helpful to hear from Eric Moss on his judgment as to the number of college students, for example, who might be interested in this program. Eric is a co-op student from Antioch College, a native of New Jersey, and presently working with Rutgers. I think he might have an opinion as to the potential interest of students in the Domestic Peace Corps over and above the interest in the international program.

Mr. Moss. I think there are an awful lot of students who get excited over the international Peace Corps, but only a small percentage of these would actually volunteer and give up 2 years of their time to go off to some other part of the world. A much larger percentage of these, I think, would be willing to give up some of their time to work at home. In other words, a lot of students who would be interested in the international Peace Corps wouldn't be able to give up all this time. It is a big step, it is an adventure, but here in this country I think you would find a lot more people willing to give up time.

Senator WILLIAMS. Yes, I am sure that is true. It also has been found that many people who have the volunteer spirit and the ability do not have adaptability to another language. There are a lot of peo

ple who have ability but can't learn any language. Language is one of the barriers, and health is another barrier. There are many parts of the world where you have to be in superior health to stand the climate. I think you are right on those two points, plus the feeling that many people want to serve, but don't want that dramatic detachment from their own familiar community. But I am sure we will have applicants with abilities.

We have had good testimony this morning from people who know their communities, know where the needs are, and know how a few corpsmen could help. A few corpsmen could open the door and attract many other volunteers to work with them. That is one of the key points in this program, because there would only be 5,000 corpsmen over a period of 3 years.

We heard a description of the work of the college girls last summer in the farm labor camps in New Jersey. I was there the night that that program was born. I went to Rutgers and spoke to a combined group of Rutgers and Douglass students. We showed a movie called A Harvest of Shame," and I talked about our legislative program and described what I seen in farms all over the country. One of the first questions that a young lady from Douglass asked was, "Isn't there something that we could do during our summer vacation?" We worked out the program right then and there.

You know the hazards of overeager young people. The program was good, but we found some pitfalls. You need someone to give continuity of organization and proper recruitment. I am very hopeful this legislation will be very measurably useful in providing this leadership.

Mr. ABERNETHY. In view of the importance of this program in terms of national service and service to the Nation, is it utterly out of the question to provide draft exemption for this?

I noticed in the fact sheet that there is no draft exemption for corps

men.

Senator WILLIAMS. Well, of course, we heard all of the arguments pro and con, and I finally accepted the conclusion that it was not wise to offer exemption, only deferment, because it does detract from some of the symbolic value of the program and because it casts some doubt on the purity of the motives of the volunteer. And I think that in terms of getting 51 percent of Congress to support this legislation, it is very unwise to consider draft exemptions.

Mr. ABERNETHY. I would bow to the latter consideration, but would not accept the former.

Senator WILLIAMS. Well, I perhaps stated it a little too strongly. Do you have any other observations, gentlemen, to go into our record, so that when we go into the battle line we can point to your words and use them as proof of the need of this legislation?

Mr. STALLEY. I might add two brief comments, Senator, in response to some of the opposition to this bill which we have heard. One criticism is that this is a small program and the need is large. I think it is evident that we must start where we can and extend the program as possible. This is not really a criticism on its merits. It is simply a remark as to its possible inadequacy in reference to the total need which admittedly is great. But we must start with what we have. The second criticism is that the National Service Corps might replace the volunteer leadership which is inherent in our society.

It seems to me that this is not an either/or situation. The national scope of the corps will encourage, enlarge, and make effective in community after community and State after State the potential for greater volunteer leadership. It will provide a means of putting the resources in touch with the needs.

Anyone who has worked with volunteers over the years realizes that unless there can be continuity, a program is not fully adequate.

Senator WILLIAMS. Thank you so much. I certainly agree with that. As a matter of fact, some efforts with great and worthy objectives which are started and then stopped are very disillusioning for those who have had only a little glimpse of improvement before the program is pulled out from under them. That is why we are working on a national program for the migratory farmworkers.

I don't believe I have any other specific questions. I would like to thank you most sincerely on behalf of this subcommittee. You have given a remarkable demonstration of knowledgeable interest, and described the specific needs that this bill can deal with.

Thank you.

(Whereupon, the subcomittee recessed until 2 p.m.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The subcommittee reconvened pursuant to recess, at 2 p.m., in Whig Cliosophic Hall, Princeton University, Senator Williams (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Senator WILLIAMS (presiding). We will reconvene at this time. We are honored to have Dr. Lloyd W. McCorkle here, acompanied by Mr. Salvatore Russoniello, from the Department of Institutions and Agencies of the State of New Jersey. We have been looking forward to hearing their testimony.

STATEMENT OF DR. LLOYD W. McCORKLE, COMMISSIONER OF INSTITUTIONS AND AGENCIES FOR THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY; ACCOMPANIED BY SALVATORE RUSSONIELLO

Dr. McCORKLE. Thank you, Senator. My name is Dr. Lloyd W. McCorkle. I am the commissioner of the department of institutions and agencies, which is the largest single department in State government in New Jersey. We have overall responsibility for the mental health program, for the program for the mentally retarded, for correction, and for public welfare.

Prior to accepting this position I was with the division of correction and I suppose many of the things and many of my observations stem from my long experience in this area.

I have a prepared statement, and rather than reading it I thought it might be of more help if I recall one or two experiences from my own life and one or two areas in our department where it seems to me a vital contribution could be made by this program.

Senator WILLIAMS. We will include your prepared statement in the record; it will be very helpful.

Dr. McCORKLE. I want to recall two of my own personal experiences. Once 25 years ago I was a graduate student at the University of Chicago, and you might say I was a University of Chicago Peace Corps man.

I was assigned as a graduate student at the University of Chicago to work with the Near West Side Citizens Group.

Clifford Shaw at the University of Chicago was responsible for the development of a very crucial and critical idea, it seems to me, in the area of delinquency control.

He took the position that if you were going to do anything about the slums and areas of disorganization-what we now call the inner city-you have to do something to develop indigenous leadership in the area and to get people in the areas to want to do something about their particular area and their lives.

Shaw developed a network of citizen committees in the so-called areas of disorganization in the city of Chicago. He utilized young graduate students to work in these areas, and I was assigned to work in the Near West Side Citizens Committees.

Now, one of the things that Shaw was interested in was that you not talk down to people, and that you accept the fact that people in these areas had the potential to develop solutions to their problems if you brought to them the experience and the education which you had as a result of being in a more favored position. I worked very closely with the Near West Side Citizens Committee for a period of approximately a year. I think a number of things happened to me as a person as a result of this experience and I hope I made a contribution in the area.

I think it would be true if we developed a Domestic Peace Corps that this would happen to the people who participated in it, the same things that happened to me, where as an individual my own horizons were tremendously broadened by this experience.

As I look back over my graduate education I cannot think of any single experience that had as much meaning to me.

Certainly I developed an appreciation for the worth of people, for democratic values, that I doubt very much I would have received in any other area.

Secondly, I think that I did make some contributions of a minor character to the people that I had the good fortune to work with. I was able to make suggestions and I was able to roll up my sleeves and do some work.

For instance, in the whole area of vocational counseling I made contributions to them. I had experience prior to going into graduate work in this general area. I was able to use this experience to make a contribution to the persons that I was working with, not as an outside social worker, but as somebody who was interested, who wanted to make a contribution and wanted to work closely with the people. This was one experience I called on in making my prepared

statement.

Another experience I called upon was after the war when I was on the faculty of New York City College. There was a professor at CCNY by the name of Harry Schulman, also a University of Chicago man, who had worked in the Chicago area projects. He was really interested in tying the university and the training program of the university more closely to the community. He developed what was known as the community service bureau of the social science research laboratory at CCNY. All of our senior students in various courses in sociology had an opportunity to either work in or do a paper for the course.

We used to assign the students to such things as being a participant observer or to working with a gang that we were interested in.

In this they would do such things as teach sports. Or we would assign students to take older people to clinics, or to do work in mental hygiene clinics, or in some instances to work in situations where they might have a long and continued association with one person who was ill.

I called upon this particular experience in our discussions in our department about how we might utilize persons if this Corps becomes a reality. I think there are several places that such individuals could make a very significant and dynamic contribution.

One would be in our institutions for the retarded. I doubt if I could describe the impact that a few dedicated persons could have if they came into these institutions where we could assign them to such things as, let's say, teaching children how to eat. Just to spend the time in a continuous educational experience where they would instruct some of our retarded children the spacial relations between the bowl of oatmeal, the spoon, and their mouth.

This would be a magnificent contribution not only to our institutional program but the lives of our kids.

Senator WILLIAMS. Are you understaffed now? Is this work that has to be done?

Mr. McCORKLE. Yes. The teaching of individuals demands an enormous amount of time.

Senator WILLIAMS. You do not have a budget to hire people for this thoughtful, time-consuming care and education?

Mr. McCORKLE. That is correct.

Senator WILLIAMS. How about volunteers under present circumstances? Do you have any volunteers from the communities who are coming to the hospitals for that sort of activity?

Mr. McCORKLE. We have persons come in, particularly Gray Ladies,. to the institutions for the mentally ill, but in the retarded institutions we don't have volunteers engaged in this activity. I might add that it might demand a bit of persistency and idealism to continue on.

Senator WILLIAMS. This education could not be done on the basis of 2 hours a week?

Mr. McCORKLE. No. There would have to be somebody there who, as it were, would be totally committed and totally dedicated. So that this is one of the areas where we could be helped.

Another help for the retarded would be the development of recreational programs. The way our programs presently operate we only have a few professional persons. They outline a program and this program must be then carried on by college-age personnel.

To have a group of idealistic persons, who would implement these programs and who would bring into this situation the kind of skills that I would anticipate these individuals would bring, would mean an enrichment of the lives of persons who by and large are going to remain in institutions for the rest of their lives such a group would add immeasurably to our institutional programs.

In our mental hospitals, you are aware, Senator, our hospitals at Greystone Park, it has already been discussed with the Department of Labor and Industry in New Jersey how we can establish an even larger one at that particular hospital.