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Council members of the staff try to keep out of the administrative action.

Now, perhaps paradoxically that can be done when you are in the best cooperative relationship with the Commissioner on Aging. Of course, I have had a long association with Dr. Flemming, going back to school days, so since I have been in this, there is never any problem if something comes up and I can call Dr. Flemming and say some people are approaching me on this, I think this is in your bailiwick, and I am going to refer it to you, and he does the same the other way. I have known Bob Benedict several years, not as closely as I knew Dr. Flemming, but I have great respect for Bob Benedict and we have had even before his name was formally proposed to the Senate. We have had numerous conferences and by a cooperative and understanding give-and-take relationship, we can in that way keep the lines separate.

I do not anticipate any difficulty.

Senator EAGLETON. Senator Domenici will be here at 11 o'clock, I am told. I think he is suggesting to the committee that we consider the abolition of the Federal Council.

You, in essence, wear two hats. You are advisor and counselor to the President, and participate in staff level meetings that we just discussed. That is one of your hats. But where are the distinctions between what you do as Chairman of the Council and what Mr. Benedict will be doing as Commissioner on Aging?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. We have been given the mandate by Congress, one, to make some specific studies in the area of policy, such studies as the matter of home owner taxes, for which we need a very extensive study. We just completed a study of consideration of assets in establishing eligibility for Federally aided benefit programs.

We made studies of the special needs of transportation. So the Federal Council has the mandate from Congress to look in these various areas of need and make recommendations. We do not get into the operation. For instance, we do not consider the operation of the program under any of the major titles. But we do examine needs and make recommendations with respect to the expansion, the cur tailment or administration of those needs. I think there is a role for the Federal Council. And I think that by keeping the policy recommendations area out of operation, it can serve a very useful purpose in the whole aging program of Government.

Senator EAGLETON. How many members does the Council have!
Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Fifteen.

Senator EAGLETON. How many vacancies are there?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. At the moment there are, well, technically, sir, there are never any vacancies because the law establishes that every member continue until his appointment is made and confirmed by the Senate. So there is never technically a vacancy unless there is a death or resignation, which there is not in this case, but there are at the present time nine members, including myself, whose terms have expired.

The process of appointing replacements is in the works. It has been disappointingly slow. I must say. I think the function of the Council has been made difficult by the length of a process which I

frankly do not understand, and thus hampered the work of the Council in the last 6 months.

Senator EAGLETON. I share that. I know that early on in calendar 1977, you have got a completely new administration, you have Cabinet members to select, Assistant Secretaries, members of the Boards, FTC, ICC SEC, and I admit it is time consuming and it must be done in a thorough way. Now we are over 1 year into the Carter administration, and there are nine members of your Council who are sort of hanging there in limbo. I dare say you will, but I do not know whether all will.

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Their terms expired technically on June 5. And recommendations were made on October 26, after consultation with the organizations involved in the aging movement. We consulted with an ad hoc coalition on aging, which is a nongovernmental organization. We took into account various recommendations. The needs of the Council as are prescribed in the law, we took that into account, and we made these recommendations on October 26.

I think they are at the very last stage now being prepared to forward to the Senate.

Senator EAGLETON. There is the National Council of Senior Citizens, there is AARP.

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. National Retired Teachers Association.

Senator EAGLETON. Retired teachers. And the National Council on Aging, right?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. National Council on Aging, yes.

Senator EAGLETON. At the present time, are each of those organizations in a sense represented on the Federal Council? Is there one person at least on that Council from each of those?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Yes, sir, from each of those, there is. There are also other considerations, such as minority consideration, that need to be taken into account. Balance between men and women members, and geographic direction. So when you get into all of those matters, it becomes complicated.

Senator EAGLETON. Have the names been divulged?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Names have been forwarded.

Senator EAGLETON. But not publicly released?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. No, sir.

Senator EAGLETON. Can you tell me this, from each of those four national organizations that I just mentioned, will there be a member if all of these names are confirmed?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Yes, sir.

Senator EAGLETON. Also minorities?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Yes, sir.
Senator EAGLETON. Women?
Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Yes, sir.

Senator EAGLETON. And with appropriate geographic representation?

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Yes, sir, I believe so.

There are five more terms that expire next June. Of course they can succeed themselves, but that again will start the new process which we ought to be starting very soon.

Senator EAGLETON. You have been patient with us. We have several other questions. Some of them are of a technical nature, some

target substance, et cetera. In the interest of time.
have you respond in writing.

Mr. CRUIKSHANK. We would be glad to do so.
Senator EAGLETON. Thank you. gentlemen.
Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Thank you.

Senator EAGLETON. Dr. Binstock.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT H. BINSTOCK, PH. D., VISIT
OF HEALTH SERVICES, HARVARD UNIVERSITY
LIC HEALTH, AND PROFESSOR OF LAW AND POLI
UNIVERSITY

Dr. BINSTOCK. I hope my statement will not be phous ones you described earlier.

I would like to comment specifically about a num were just discussing.

Senator EAGLETON. Do it any way you want.

comment.

Dr. BINSTOCK. Why do we not wait until your qu I will work in some of the specifics, then.

It is truly a privilege to be here to present my vi subcommittee has earned my respect. You are not in pushing along a conventional bill with a small r dow dressing. I am confident that your aim is to that will have a substantial impact in helping o` their families who are concerned for them.

I very much share the views that you are outlin My central message to you is that drastic new a Older Americans Act are essential.

The current legislation and the pattern in whic plemented has many positive features, but the su proach has brought it to a point of diminishing r is now at a point where it is a cruel hoax. If you ing titles with more funds, and tack on one or t titles to the present roster, you will make happy t dustries in the field of aging. But you will do lit alleviate substantially many problems of disadvant icans. In order to have an impact on the lives strong priorities will have to be set.

In short, a bold strategic departure is needed t Americans Act from an initial phase-12 years and bureaucratic development to a second ph solving. The objectives of the Older Americans A lined, Senator, in your opening statement are 1 being fulfilled. As Mr. Cruikshank pointed out, w that chart the billions, tens of billions in social s In fact in some ways it is a good thing, because w we are adding up to a quarter of the Federal bu in all the social security payments and if we dealt we have not made any progress in the last 10 ye the number of older Americans below the near think the issue of priorities would emerge. We billion in income transfers now.

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gressional district is served by an Area Age and s some older persons who are benefiting from q vided through Older Americans Act programs Fourth: The extensive range of programs initiate and through the act has set forth a tremendous agenda of Aetion society's responsibilities toward its older citizens, bead the dertaken through the Social Security Act. Through I den legislation and implementation, the Older Americans Act brought to the fore as legitimate public concerns the need for: home care services, transportation, nutrition, leisure programs, protection against crime, legal services, regulatory ombudsmen, and a variety of other health care and supportive services. This process of programmatic elaboration has provided important leadership in directing attention to the issues of aging. And there is little doubt that American society has become more conscious of these issues. Unfortunately, these strengths of the Older Americans Act go hand-in-hand with a series of weaknesses

First, the extensive range of programmatic repolities has been elaborated without much sense of equently, the available funds are distributed lafire din ang many d jectives and are far from sufficient to meal impact on Any given problem.

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City's Office on Aging, the title VII nutrition program is meeting about 1 percent of the national need. Are we looking toward an appropriation of over $20 billion to fund the nutrition programs throughout the country? And tens of billions for each of the other programmatic needs? Certainly not. Yet our failure to confront the illusion that the Older Americans Act presents solutions to any of the problems on its agenda lets us ignore the challenges of making priority choices, and the challenges of looking to local priorities and resources.

A third weakness is that the bureaucratic components of the network-the public and voluntary service agencies and the universities and colleges have quite understandably become preoccupied with sustaining and expanding the different, thinly funded program elements with which they are directly involved. Each program element has a corresponding set of bureaucratic or educational mechanisms, and each of these sets has developed its own professional organization or association. As a consequence, one finds a great deal of attention given to the apportionment of Older Americans Act funds earmarked for each of the bureaucratic domains in the network, but little, if any, attention to how a given problem confronting older persons is to be solved.

In my own State of Massachusetts, for example, we have continuing conflict among statewide associations for area agencies, for nutrition projects, for home care corporations, for senior centers, and for municipal councils on aging. Last summer this conflict became so intense, and so unrelated to older persons and their problems, that the Governor's Citizens Advisory Committee felt impelled to convene a statewide meeting at which these five State associations were charged to straighten out their bureaucratic differences and come to some settlements about their division of the territory and its resources. In Massachusetts, as elsewhere, these settlements are not made with an eye to solving the problems of older persons so much as with an eye to entrenching firmly the role of the bureaucratic components.

There are additional problems that we might discuss, but perhaps those I have already addressed are sufficient to convey my basic point-namely, that the Older Americans Act and its programs are not well structured for solving or even for making a substantial impact upon the problems of aging in our society. The legislation and its programs have been effective for some essential first-phase purposes, particularly in spelling out an agenda of issues affecting older persons. And the act's programs have been well designed for helping each Congressman and Congresswoman know how many constituents in his or her district have been served a meal or provided with some other form of assistance. It is now time, however, to address the larger issue of how, if at all, the act might help solve or have a substantial impact upon one or more problems affecting older persons.

I believe that one possible way to shift to a problem-solving ori entation would be through a strategic departure-a legislative ap proach that eliminates the compartments separating the various ti tled programs of the act-area planning and services, training, research gerontology centers, senior centers, and nutrition-and con

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