You are very, very kind to have come here and taken this time, and without your original creation, we would not be here. I thank you, sir, very much indeed.

Dr. SPILHAUS. Thank you, Senator.

Senator PELL. Our next witness will be Dr. Nierenberg, director of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at La Jolla, Calif.

STATEMENT OF DR. WILLIAM A. NIERENBERG, DIRECTOR, SCRIPPS INSTITUTION OF OCEANOGRAPHY, LA JOLLA, CALIF.

Dr. NIERENBERG. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for inviting me here. I am grateful for the invitation to present my views.

Senator PELL. Incidentally, I would like to pass on to you the greetings, as I said earlier, of Senator Murphy, who is very sorry he cannot be with you but he is at the funeral of our colleague.

Dr. NIERENBERG. Thank you very much.

I have put together the consensus of opinions of my colleagues at Scripps and it has turned out to be much too long to be read today. Senator PELL. I would agree with you. Could it be submitted-it is 26 pages, I think, and a very interesting map here. Let's put the testimony in the record as if read, and if we possibly can, would you like the map inserted in the record, too?

Dr. NIERENBERG. Yes, sir.

Senator PELL. Fine. Depending on the budget of the committee, I guess, and the possibility of it, we will have it inserted in the record. (The map referred to may be found in the files of the subcommittee.) Dr. NIERENBERG. I would be grateful.

Senator PELL. Maybe you would like to digest your statement.

Dr. NIERENBERG. Yes, sir; and just say a few words about it. I really can't digest it easily but I would like to explain to you, Mr. Chairman, the organization of the report and, perhaps, why it is so long.

It is really in two parts, a very short initial part where we try to draw on the experiences of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography as they are related to the subject of the sea grant college.

We are, as you know, sir, approximately 75 years old and since 1912 we have been part of the University of California, which is a landgrant college, and in a certain sense, in the narrower sense of the proposal, Scripps has been a kind of sea grant college that very early in its history it was given title to the beach at the Scripps property and a thousand feet of ocean, seaward, and this was very fortunate because this title included the Scripps Canyon-which was very importantScripps and La Jolla Canyons, which are very important for our deep-water

Senator PELL. What is that?

Dr. NIERENBERG. Scripps Canyon. There are two very deep, narrow canyons that cut the Continental Shelf almost up to the shore. The major one is the La Jolla, and then a piece at right angles to it, called the Scripps Canyon. This is very fortunate for the scientists as it enables them to get rapidly into deep water and study the ocean processes close to shore.

In addition, we have a marshland preserve and we have 1 square mile of ocean preserve that we share with the Navy Electronics Laboratory.

Now, we are an educational and research institution but we are also organized to serve some of the purposes described in the sea grant college bill itself. I would like to briefly list the details of that part of our organization which is so constructed.

We have the Institute of Marine Resources which is housed in Scripp's and headed by Prof. Milner Schaefer.

We have the marine life research group, which is headed by Prof. John Isaacs.

There is the Marine Physical Laboratory, which is housed at Point Loma and headed by Prof. Fred N. Spiess, which was established principally to work in the problems of importance to the U.S. Navy.

We have the Visibility Laboratory at Point Loma headed by Dr. Siebert Duntley. We also house the Tuna Commission. We are hosts to the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries.

One of our divisions, the University of California Division of War Research, no longer exists but has been transmuted into the Marine Physical Laboratory and the Naval Electronics Laboratory.

I put this in the record, Senator Pell, principally to indicate the strong desirability of a sea grant concept and how we have in our own way pragmatically been working in the same direction in that side of our institution which is not organized directly for research and teaching.

Now, I would like to explain the second part of the paper, the longer part, and this part is principally devoted to those areas of research, applied research specifically, and activities that we feel are important for the sea grant college concept as outlined in your bill.

It is too lengthy for me to go into detail and I would just like to make a brief statement about this.

Many needs of man are now supplied by the ocean. A substantial number of these cases are sufficiently well understood that research is mainly only adjunct to specific utilization-affecting the effects of the utilization and dealing with improvements. Such cases can be classified as industrial research and include much of the activity in waste disposal, fish and seaweed harvest, beach construction and erosion control, shallow water petroleum production, marine architecture and transport, harbor engineering, military equipment, nearshore structures, undersea cables, marine instruments, and so on.

In these cases there exists a body of knowledge and a fund of operational know-how and equipment that permits the instruction of and profitable employment of practitioners in ocean technology for both the industrial operations and industrial research.

Construction and research of this type is, of course, essential to man's effective utilization of the ocean environment and can be adequately carried out by technical schools and research institutions. Much of the research is of a specific nature and does not intimately parallel the research of disciplinary oceanography.

But the crux of my remarks is what follows and this is the area of ocean engineering and technology that deals with the generalized problems and opportunities-broad applicability that ocean science reveals. It is this area directly paralleling and highly compatible with ocean science to which Scripps devotes its attention and study and to which I devote the remainder of my remarks in the full paper. And with your permission, I will just read the titles of areas that are discussed in detail in the report.

The first one is exploration.

The second is appraisal of the overall natural constraints, limits and opportunities of ocean use.

The third heading is the identification of general operational inadequacies and exploration of improved approaches.

The fourth is interdisciplinary ocean technology itself.

The fifth relates to technical learning from nature's solutions to oceanic problems.

The sixth is the application of engineering and technical methodology and knowledge to ocean science.

And the seventh is the problem of the identification of human needs for and human constraints to ocean use.

Now, a very brief summary which just involves two points.

In order for a local marine station, as a sort of wet agricultural and engineering experiment station, to be effective, it must be adjunctive to a broad-scale ocean technology, paralleling, supporting, and mutually drawing from an equally wide program of ocean science.

And second, it must be closely associated with a first-rate university, with departments in geophysics and in the basic sciences and engineering and it will also avoid basic misidentification of needs if it maintains rapport with the humanities and economics departments of the university.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator PELL. Thank you very much.

A couple of specific questions. Do you believe that there should be a matching formula or not?

Dr. NIERENBERG. Well, you know, Senator, in my case that is a leading question. As director of the institution I am always desperate for money. I always like to get as much as I can. Drawing on our own history, the State of California supplies 20 percent of the operating funds of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. I must say that we find this support extremely beneficial in a variety of ways but the most important is one I believe that was expressed by Dean Spilhaus, that in a certain sense guarantees the strong interest and participation of the State of California and the people of the State of California in the operations of the institution. They take a very strong local interest in the operation of the institution.

Senator PELL. Do you have any thought as to what the administering agency for this program should be? Should it be the National Science Foundation or Smithsonian or have you any views on that?

Dr. NIERENBERG. I certainly don't, and I think my colleagues do not have any particular strong viewpoint either, Senator. We can certainly say we have been happy with our operations with respect to the National Science Foundation.

Senator PELL. All right. Thank you very much indeed for coming. I realize it was a very long trip from California here.

(The prepared statement of Dr. Nierenberg follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DR. WILLIAM A. NIERENBERG DIRECTOR, SCRIPPS INSTITUTION OF OCEANOGRAPHY, LA JOLLA, CALIF.

Mr. Chairman, I am grateful for the invitation to present my ideas on the subject of the sea grant college. I have obtained a consensus of views from my senior colleagues at Scripps Institution of Oceanography and we have agreed that the special history of the institution as it began before 1900 and from the

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time it became a part of the University of California in 1912 put forward in some detail along with some general remarks on ocean technology could provide the subcommittee with the kind of practical information that could be useful in evaluating the sea grant college concept.

The University of California itself began as a land-grant college which de veloped into the famous institution of today. In many respects the Scripps Institution of Oceanography has paralleled the development of the great institution that absorbed it in 1912. For one, it is devoted to research, with respect to all things that have to do with the oceans-it is also a teaching institution, providing the graduate training for the granting of the Ph. D. in oceanography, marine biology, and earth science. Our first Ph. D. was granted in 1930 and we have to date granted 95 Ph. D.'s. The value of at least one aspect of a sea grant college was early recognized by the State of California in that title to the beach and an area extending 1,000 feet seaward from the institution was granted to the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. This grant is particularly valuable in this instance because of the proximity of the Scripps and La Jolla submarine canyons, which give us the effect of deep water research close to shore. The value of this grant has been increased by a 1 square mile of preserve that is re served for the joint use of Scripps and NEL.

While we are proud of the fame of our institution with respect to our voyages of exploration and research in the deep oceans around the world, and I would like to present the subcommittee with a chart of the tracks of all our voyages of more than 1 month's duration since the year 1950, I speak today principally in connection with other activities and organizational parts of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography which are also pertinent to the subject of the sea grant college.

There is first our marine life research group which is headed by Prof. John Isaacs. This group is 17 years old and was established for the purposes of translating and extending our scientific results to the better utilization of the fisheries off the coast of California and Baja California. The marine life research group has made those of its contributions that are of a practical nature principally through the Calcofi, that is the California Cooperative Fisheries Investigation, which is a partnership between the University of California, the State of California and the Federal Government with a few other contributing agencies and is coordinated by the marine research committee of the State of California. One of the principal results of this work was the establishment for the first time of a fishery completely on the basis of scientific investigation. This union of university, industry, Federal and State has been, and will continue to be, very fruitful.

The Institute of Marine Resources is a statewide university organization housed in Scripps and headed by Prof. Milner Schaefer. This institute which is now 14 years old, was established to develop and apply the applied science aspects of oceanography throughout the university system of the State of California.

Our marine physical laboratory, housed at Point Loma and headed by Prof. Fred N. Spiess was established principally to work on problems of importance to the U.S. Navy with respect to underwater physics, particularly sound and its transmission.

Our visibility laboratory at Point Loma, headed by Dr. Seibert Duntley, has a variety of missions, but one of the most important is the practical problem of light transmission and visibility.

We also house the tuna commission and we are hosts to the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries with whom we have cooperative programs.

One of our divisions, the University of California Division of War Research no longer exists but has been transmuted into the marine physical laboratory. We can thus see how by steady growth in a space of over 70 years the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, which is now a part of the new campus of the University of California at San Diego, has become in a sense a kind of sea grant college (or perhaps university would be a better description) of the kind somewhat akin to that which is proposed here. We believe we handle successfully on one hand the teaching, basic research in oceanography, a fleet of eight ships, a marshland reserve, our radio station and our various research divisions at the same time that we have been able to set up the organizations for, and effectively serve, the science, the university, the State of California, the United States and international organizations, this later principally through UNESCO.

For the past 10 years the oceanographers at Scripps have carried on continuous study and discussion of the best way to contribute further to the advance

of ocean-related sciences. The first result and the principal one was the establishment of a new campus of the University of California in San Diego. It was agreed that a school of oceanography could not flourish unless it were closely associated with a university that had first-rate departments in the basic sciences and engineering. One of the great results was the growth of our efforts in geophysics through the associated branch of the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics locally headed by Prof. Walter Munk and statewide by Prof. W. Libby. A school of marine science that is isolated from a first-rate campus is a poor concept in this day and age. We at Scripps feel that this development of the Scripps Institution and the University of California has been good and we expect even more dramatic results in the future.

We have proceeded perhaps too cautiously in one area that is of interest to your discussions, and that is the area of formal education in applied ocean science, sometimes called ocean engineering. Our faculty also has discussed the question many times in the last 10 years, and we have reached some tentative conclusions with which we are experimenting right now in some of our courses in oceanography and which we hope to establish on a broad and surer basis in cooperation with our department of engineering, headed by Prof. S. Penner. In this foregoing introduction to the past and continuing contributions of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and the University of California to the "practical" use of the oceans, I perhaps have pressaged the gist of my remaining discussion, in which I will present some of the abundant evidences that the reduction of the ocean realm to mankind's use encompasses far more than ocean engineering or fisheries as we conventionally think of them. I would like to acknowledge the help of my colleague Prof. John Isaacs in the preparation of this section.

Indeed (and I will presently offer you more examples), in the sea the interaction of the physical motions, waves, and currents; the complex chemicals that the sea contains; its active organisms; and its geographical features and sediments, act and interact in such manifold and complex ways as to preclude most simple single disciplinary approaches to its exploration and use.

When, to these complexities of the sea, we add the cosmic complexities of man, his motivations, economics, laws and need, it is clear why at Scripps we have concerned ourselves only partly with ocean engineering as to its structural, mechanical, or electrical aspects, or fisheries to its problems of acquisition and management.

We thus have been convinced that ocean technology and engineering must be very broadly defined and approached, and we have striven to enlarge its compass to the entire interdisciplinary field of "the purposeful intervention into the ocean for the practical needs of mankind."

In this view ocean technology and engineering fully parallels, derives from, and supports the entire range of the science of oceanography, which deals with the "intellectual needs of mankind" in its fundamental motivation, rather than the practical needs.

Ocean technology and engineering, however, extends farther than oceanography, for it must define and inquire into practical "needs" and concern itself with industrial and defense economics to some considerable degree.

With this compass of ocean technology in mind, I will outline and briefly discuss the scope of the viewpoints to which the definition gives rise.

First I will reiterate the part of the field that is now reduced to practice. Many needs of man are now supplied by the ocean. A substantial number of these cases are sufficiently well understood that research is mainly only an adjunct to specific utilization-assessing the effects of the utilization and dealing with improvements. Such cases can be classed as "industrial research" and include much of the activity in waste disposal, fish and seaweed harvest, beach construction and erosion control, shallow water petroleum production, marine architecture and transport, harbor engineering, military equipment, near-shore structures, undersea cable, marine instruments, etc.

In these cases there exists a body of knowledge and a fund of operational know-how and equipment that permits the instruction of and profitable employment of "practitioners" in ocean technology for both the industrial operations and the industrial research.

Construction and research of this type is, of course, essential to man's effective utilization of the ocean environment, and can be adequately carried out by technical schools and research institutions. Much of the research is of a specific nature and does not intimately parallel the research of disciplinary oceanography.