but we have to have the specifics of what is acceptable to the administration, so that we can have that little added support.

Thank you very much. And please bring our greetings to Mr. Morse. We are very sorry to hear of his illness.

Senator PELL. Congressman Clausen is now here and will offer his testimony.

Mr. CLAUSEN. I see Mr. Keith has come in, too.

Senator PELL. I realize that but you were here first.

At this time I am going to ask to read this statement from Senator Murphy, who regrets, he says, that he is unable to attend today's hearing. Senator Murphy, along with other Senators from this commitmiteee, is in Michigan attending the funeral of our colleague, Senator McNamara. Senator Murphy particularly wanted to be here today to hear the testimony of the outstanding Californians scheduled to speak on S. 2439. Senator Murphy asked me to extend his fellow Californians the warmest greetings and assure them that he will carefully read their testimony.

Congressman Clausen.

STATEMENT OF HON. DON H. CLAUSEN, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Mr. CLAUSEN. I thank you, Senator Pell, for this opportunity to appear before the committee. I am most appreciative of the comments of our distinguished colleague, the Senator from California, Senator Murphy.

At this time, I, too, would like to express my personal regrets on the passing of our beloved Senator McNamara. I had the privilege of sharing with him, in the building of public works projects as I served on the Public Works Committee of the House.

I am here today, of course, to join in support of your S. 2439, Senator Pell, and to compliment you for your leadership in establishing what I think is going to be a very exciting contribution to our education system throughout America.

Certainly, the land grant college program has proves itself to be successfull and it would appear that the sea grant college program certainly will open up many new frontiers on an international basis. I am convinced, personally, that it is long overdue.

First, I want to urge, as forcefully as possible, that this legislation be adopted. I am hopeful that we may see this measure become law before we adjourn this session of Congress. I, personally, believe that we cannot do more for our own United States, and for the world as a whole, than to begin now to gather information that will allow our bountiful natural resources to be used advantageously in the future. This bill will do that.

The necessity for this action is obvious to those of us who are concerned with the conservation of our natural resources while at the same time, using them to man's own gain. If we hesitate to begin compiling needed information, as has happened in the past, we will undoubtedly find ourselves haphazardly depleting these valuable resources. I do not want to see this happen, and it is for this reason that I firmly believe in the importance of the legislation we are considering today.

On the other hand, if we start now to accumulate knowledge of our marine resources, we will be ready with the facilities and equipment necessary for development of these resources when they are needed. And we will need them, Mr. Chairman. With the massive population explosion will come the need for more and better food, water and other resources that we know now to be available from the sea. And this need is not a temporary one, instead, it will be a continuing and growing one for which solutions must be found. I feel certain this legislation will lead to the necessary solutions.

I am frank to say, Mr. Chairman, that my second reason for appearing today is to point out the role that several educational institutions in my congressional district could play under this measure.

One of the finest marine research centers in the country is located at Humboldt State College in Arcata, Calif. Under the program established by this bill, Humboldt State could further expand its curriculum in the marine sciences and add greatly to the positive contributions it has already made in this area of study. The knowledge gained by Humboldt State, coupled with the work of other institutions, can provide us with a broad base of knowledge about our nearby marine environment that can help us effectively develop these resources. I know that this committee will also be concerned with determining whether 2-year colleges should be included in the provisions of this bill. I would like to urge you to approve this possibility. A 2-year college, the College of Marin, located in my district, has a marine biology center at Bolinas, Calif., which has been quite successful in the past and which could be greatly enhanced by the programs of this legislation.

In conclusion, I would merely like to express again my full support for early passage of this bill. I hope you will agree with me that enactment will provide a great service to the future of our Nation.

The oceanography centers in colleges and universities, will make a contribution well beyond what we can anticipate at this time. I believe that those of us who represent coastal, congressional districts, are in a unique position, as you are, representing the great State of Rhode Island on the Atlantic seaboard. Our unique location, contiguous to the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, quite naturally, places us in a position to recognize the need and the opportunities for establishing oceanography centers in our colleges and universities.

I would also submit, sir, it is vitally necessary that we work with our existing institutions and as suggested in the bill, I am hopeful we will have the cooperation of all the States.

Certainly, however, as we look for a formula for finance, it would seem to me that because of the vast international aspects, the Federal Government must assume a high percentage of the financial obligations. Just recently, on the coast of California, we had evidence of the overwhelming need for legislation of this type.

Russian trawlers have been invading, shall we say, some of the fishing grounds just off the Pacific coast. I know that the same situation has taken place on the east coast. As we review the international political facts of life, especially in southeast Asia and Vietnam, we must agree that our major battle is really ideological warfare. This particular bill will greatly enhance America's position in the development of an economic offensive designed to compete with our major

ideological adversaries of the world, the Russians and Communist China. I believe it is about time that we organize this type of offensive to apply economic pressures against their political systems. We have not kept pace in oceanography and the development of the fishery and other resources of the sea.

Most of us in America are competitive by nature and, in particular, those of us that might have been athletes in our day, are perfectly willing to accept this challenge. I strongly believe in this sea grant college program that we are attempting to promote. Again, sir, I want to compliment you for your leadership and I stand ready to support you, on the House side, with all of the vigor at my command, because I think the prospects are very exciting. We must recapture our position of leadership in ocean resource exploitation. The challenges and opportunities are unlimited.

Senator PELL. Thank you very much, indeed, Congressman. It was very nice of you to come over today.

Congressman Keith, from the neighboring Commonwealth of Massachusetts, was kind enough to come over today, too.

STATEMENT OF HON. HASTINGS KEITH, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

Mr. KEITH. Mr. Chairman, thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak before your committee in support of the sea grant colleges bill.

The bill, in my view, meets squarely some of the major weaknesses in our national oceanographic program. I have recently returned from a trip behind the Iron Curtain with the purpose of evaluating Soviet progress in oceanography and marine science in general for the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee. The Soviets clearly are putting high priority on the ocean sciences. They have perhaps two or three times as many people working in these areas as we do. Moreover each of their ocean scientists has more technicians to back him up than do our scientists. We have approximately 1,000 professional level oceanographers and perhaps 2,000 ocean technicians, while the Russians have about 1,500 scientists with about 7,000 technicians. One result of this concentration of manpower has been that the Soviets are leading us in the applied areas of oceanography. They are very effective at translating basic research into technology. Although most experts agree that we are still ahead in basic research, we learned in Moscow that the Soviets are putting new efforts into this area. They are upgrading the Institute of Oceanology, their basic research institute, so we may see new competition in this area. Moreover in the Soviet Union advanced technology is applied to fisheries far more than it is in this country. The Russians fish on large factory ships spread over much of the world's ocean. Some of their techniques that we learned about were explosions to bring the fish briefly to the surface and fish elevators to help spawning fish to go upstream over dams. They appear to have done a great deal with fish farming and other modern techniques. All these are areas to which I do not believe we have been giving adequate attention.

The sea grant college could meet much of this problem because its emphasis is on practical education and applied research. One of our major problems in fishing has been that the ordinary fishermen are

not familiar with the new techniques available. This is perhaps the major reason we have fallen to fifth place among fishing nations of the world and Russia's catch has increased 250 percent in the past 10 years while ours has declined. In fishing, oceanography, and merchant marine as well, the Soviet Union presents a great challenge to this country. Sea grant colleges can be one answer.

The investment in the sea grant college system could pay off in economic terms for this country in a very short time. For example in my area, the nucleus for a regional center of excellence in oceanography such as the bill describes, is already in existence. The energy, motivation, and talent to produce a great spurt of growth in oceanography is already present in southeastern Massachusetts, as I am sure it is in a number of centers across the country.

This area has as a focal point Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, where much of the advanced work in oceanography is being done today. Also in the area are a number of industries which make oceanographic equipment. These could have a role to play in the sea grant college system. Serious thought is being given to introducing an oceanography curriculum at some of the colleges in the area. Southeastern Massachusetts Technical Institute for example is a young and growing college in an area where interest in oceanography is high. In fact, preliminary plans have just been approved by the trustees for an oceanographic developmental program. The location of SMTI on the outskirts of the fishing port of New Bedford and in close proximity to Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution makes it an ideal place for oceanography studies. The sea grant college system could provide such an institution the encouragement it needs to develop a substantial and important program. It could not only provide courses for scientists and technicians, but it could also operate lectures and demonstrations for fishermen of the area under the extension service plan.

I have on my desk at this moment two interesting proposals. One is for a vocational school to train ocean technicians in the Cape Cod area. This proposal, in detailed and well-thought-out form, has been made by a number of marine scientists and other responsible citizens who believe there is a need for such technicians to back up the scientific work at Woods Hole and the other laboratories in the area. Another proposal which is actually going to be a pilot study is for oceanography teaching in one of the high schools of the area in conjunction with Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

I mention these various institutions to give you some indication of the extent of interest in this subject. Many diverse groups can contribute to our national oceanographic program as well as gain from it. A national investment in this field will pay off in the short run as well as the long run. The need is there and the people and plans are ready to go. I urge this committee to report favorably on the sea grant college legislation.

Senator PELL. Thank you.

I have one specific question to ask you and that is your thought as to whether there should be matching-funds provisions in this bill as suggested by the executive branch witnesses, or whether there should not be.

Mr. KEITH. Generally speaking, in the past, I have approved matching funds for most legislation. I did so in the case of anadromous

fish, for example. But it seems to me that the Federal Government has so preempted the tax dollar that it is becoming almost impossible for the States to match the Federal Government's ability in this respect. Inasmuch as this is a national resource which needs exploitation, I would tend to minimize the role of the States in the financing of it. The fact that States are unable to do what might historically have been their share in this respect, is an argument I would tend to use to support Mr. Heller's recent suggestion to revert Federal resources to the States. Thus they could, once again, help in providing facilities which we need at the State level.

But I doubt that I would feel that the States could do as much as the Federal Government can. We are doing all that we can to provide secondary school education at the local level and we still need a lot of Federal help.

Senator PELL. I would be inclined to agree with you.

I would like to revert to Captain Snyder and Mr. Abel, who are still with us, and ask if they think from the executive branch's viewpoint the contribution rendered by the States could be considered to be in kind. The very fact that it will be the existing institutions that are giving the backup, providing the medium through which these programs would be enacted, then I see very real problems if you try to tie it into a 90-10 or some sore of arithmetical formula.

Do you think this would be possible in acceptance to the executive branch?

Captain SNYDER. That was only a suggestion on the part of ICO. That was not a position of the executive branch, condition, or anything of that sort.

Senator PELL. In other words, if we met some of the other suggestions of the executive branch, do you think from the viewpoint of the Bureau of the Budget, that the contribution could be, as I say, in kind, somewhat as under the poverty program, where the contribution is the land and the buildings that the city has, and that it would not require financial contributions from the States?

Captain SNYDER. You certainly have a better feel for this than any of us in the ICO.

Senator PELL. I just see a very real problem if we start enacting the idea of a mathematical formula for the first time in NSF-type operations, and with respect to a matter of national interest of this sort. I was wondering on the strength of your position if you felt this might be an acceptable alternative.

Captain SNYDER. This was just a suggestion. It is not a position, as such.

Senator PELL. Right. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Congressman Keith.

Senator PELL. Now, we have the father of this whole project, the intellectual father and the actual father, who invented the term "sea grant college" and a man who made the launching speech in Newport, R.I., last fall on this and galvanized the audience, and I am looking forward to being galvanized again by him.

I hope he has just about the same speech as he had then. I hope also he has an opportunity to see some of my colleagues, while he is in Washington, and to sell them on his idea, as well.

It is a great honor and pleasure to have with us Dean Spilhaus of the Institute of Technology of the University of Minnesota.