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agricultural industry that we have in southern California has been definitely threatened, especially the big leaf crops.

We also found we can only go so far at the State level. Right now all cars, new cars, being sold in California must have a complete package in terms of tail pipe and crankcase device. You can't purchase a new car, with few exceptions, unless it has that series of devices on it. But what do we do about cars that have been driven from other States into California ?

I think one thing that the Federal Government can do, and as I read the air pollution legislation that was passed this year, I don't really feel it is adequate, because most of the emphasis is on the disposal of solid waste, and there is relatively little emphasis in terms of the actual problem of pollution of the air. I think that the Federal Government could develop standards with respect to the design of an internal combustion engine.

I think there are 8 million gallons of gas purchased in Los Angeles each day, and of this 8 million gallons about 10 percent goes out into the atmosphere.

The basic problem is the efficiency of the automobile engine and also they could come up with a composition of gasoline or the fuel that is in the tank. I think we need stronger Federal standards in both terms of the designing gasoline and also in terms of an internal combustion engine.

I think we need further Federal research in weather control. Our problem in southern California is that we have this basin of mountains. We have an atmospheric condition known as an inversion layer where the hot air is on top and it keeps the other air from going up.

About 3 or 4 weeks ago we had a 4-day attack. It was this stagnant air. Each day as the 4 million vehicles of southern California went onto the freeways you could see this inversion layer just sitting there like a lid.

I flew from Sacramento during one of the bad attacks-it was fantastic. Everything was blue and you could see the top of the mountains. This smog layer, as we went through the layer, we could smell the ozone in the air, and then we got into the muck we call smog. Perhaps there could be research in the area of weather control. There may be some method to break this inversion layer if necessary.

I look at the other problems that plague this metropolitan area. One of them is water pollution. We find that in our inner harbor area there is enough pollution to keep fish and marine life from living. We find that we have definite problems in the San Francisco Bay area. This is an area surrounded by five or six counties. There is a definite problem of the existence of marine life, and when you find this you work into a health hazard.

We have the problem, for example, at Lake Tahoe, one of the great recreational areas of the West, and we have studies that have been developed that show if there are not steps taken--and this has to be done between States of Nevada and California-Lake Tahoe will not be fit for human recreation for another 10 or 15 years, because they are putting raw sewage in it and everything else.

There does need to be more of a concentration on how to solve the problems on the functional basis. In a way you are going to have


to ignore these lines that have very little rationale that are called cities and counties, because problems flow across cities and counties.

I will give you one good example. We have in this basin a flood control district. The citizens of this county voted themselves a bond issue of several hundred million dollars to pay for their participation in the overall Federal program of flood control, which is under the Army, the Corps of Engineers.

So we have this cooperation of the Army Corps of Engineers, which constructed the project. The State of California and the local government more or less purchased the rights-of-way and also built certain diversions that aren't considered as a Federal responsibility. As a result we have been able to solve much of our flood control problem. The 4 or 5 inches of rain that occurred this week, 20 years ago would have meant very serious flood conditions. Instead of those conditions they were relatively minor in terms of minor flooding of certain streets and intersections.

This is a concept where the Federal Government has worked with local government, and in cooperation with local government no one really feels the giant of the Federal Government is coming in and telling them what to do. It is a two-way proposition and it is based on a functional problem and not a flood control system for Orange County and another for San Bernardino and another for Los Angeles.

I think also we can see some of this if we analyze the Watts riots, because we find again the Watts area encompasses several jurisdictions within the city of Los Angeles, which has never been master planned incidentally. In the county it is part of Willowbrook and part of the city of Compton, and there has never been any program to tie all of this

up. Now in terms of property aspects and the job aspects, we now have good cooperation through the youth opportunity board, and Mr. Ganoda who developed this cooperative project with the city and the cooperation of the State, the county, and the Federal Government, and we are making some progress there.

I do think again that the role of the Federal Government should be that of a coordinator, and since the Federal Government will be supplying some funds, with these funds they can say we will only cooperate if this is done on a regional basis. We will not single-shot it by hitting separate jurisdictions.

I would like to-I never quite read a statement—I try to run through it and try to pick out the salient points.

I think the studies that are now being developed by the State of California are excellent studies, but again, these studies depend on the cooperation of all levels of government, if we are to, for example, collect all of the information concerning government and to concentrate it in one source, this means cooperation all the way through.

So to repeat, I think of the many problems that local government has, as we conceive of it, and local government is based on a preconceived line of jurisdiction that was put together 50, 60, or 100 years ago, and it really didn't anticipate the problems we have.

I look at the area of rapid transit, where I have done a great deal of legislative work, and we find in southern California if we don't develop a rapid transit system in another 10 or 15 years that people are going to spend more time in their automobile going to and from work than they are going to be spending at work.

There is a Federal program in rapid transit, but it is a matching program, and unfortunately this community has not decided to get off their rear end and develop their own sources. I do have a strong feeling on this.

I don't think the Federal Government should come in and help the community unless they are willing to help themselves. I think Californians have been willing to help themselves. I would say my own area has not been willing to help itself in terms of a rapid transit. As the result most of the Federal funds are going directly to the San Francisco district because the people have gone to the polls and have voted for a very large general obligation bond issue to build this system, but still the money of the Federal Government that is going into this system is primarily for research. So all of the work being done in San Francisco for rapid transit will be of great help for southern California, because this is basic research that has to be done anyway.

I would think that with more Federal cooperation encouraging the regional approach, that we can have a lot more success. It is my strong feeling that if we just keep dawdling away with metropolitan problems, we are going to be in a terrible condition in another 10 or 15 years. We are going to find local government just won't be able to do the job.

I think this was one of the major issues in the New York City campaign, because in many ways local government in New York is disintegrating in handling this huge problem of concentration of people, the existence of racial ghettoes, the problem of communication, trying to develop an overall concept of education, and trying to develop concepts of job training.

And so this is where I think that legislation, such as yours, can be of great help, because there are standard problems in every metropolitan area.

It is the same problem of pushing people togther and the resultant harassment and air pollution and lack of economic opportunity. The existence of racial ghettoes, and all of this constant throughout the Nation.

We pride ourselvs, for example, on racial relations here in southern California. We thought that we had been passing a lot of good civil rights legislation in this State, but still Watts happened here, and what happened in Watts can happen in any crowded metropolitan area, especially in the North where the people come from the South to find hope.

So I am in basic agreement with your legislation, and I hope that this legislation should not be developed just in terms of Federal programs or local programs, but I think we have to look at each and very problem and we have to tailor the legislation to that specific problem. We must have cooperation of all levels of government.

If it is really a nationwide issue, we could have basic Federal auspices, but I think we have to look at each problem separately and design legislation that can hit that, so you have a combination of local initiative for the local unique problems plus the ability of the Federal Government to look at the overall picture.

Senator NELSON. Thank you, Senator Rees. The next witness is Julian Smith, chairman of the Southern California Industry Planning Seminar. Mr. Smith, we are happy to have you here. Your statement will be printed in the record. You may proceed as you please.



Mr. SMITH. Senator Nelson, members of the subcommittee, my name is Julian M. Smith and I am chairman of the Southern California Industry Planning Seminar. The seminar is an informal group which meets on a monthly basis to consider problems associated with the aerospace industry, the national defense, and the southern California regional economy. During the last 2 years, the seminar has concentrated on problems involving the California economy and the outlook for changing government demand; the economics of national security; applications of aerospace technology to major public problems in California; and the implications of aerospace industry diversification. Members represent aerospace and electronics companies, chambers of commerce, nonprofit research agencies, State and local government, financial institutions, and the universities.

The Southern California Industry Planning Seminar endorses the Scientific Manpower Utilization Act. This legislation is clearly a national extension of Governor Brown's California program which was supported by the seminar prior to its inception. We believe the bill now being examined by this committee represents a realistic means of capitalizing on technology for coping with urgent problems facing the Nation, the States and various localities. It has been our observation that more funds are becoming available to support new Federal, State, and local programs in the nondefense sector. With the achievement of some of the major objectives of national defense, the systems analysis techniques developed and practiced by the aerospace community are becoming available in increasing amounts and will apply to new and different problems in the public interest. In fact, the activities of this committee demonstrate that the products of science and technology are being diverted from traditional objectives of national power to equally important applications involving domestic needs. With the completion of the first studies for the State of California, the aerospace industry has demonstrated its competence in this new endeavor and we are now justified in our belief that the problem-solving talents of the industry are well suited to the solution of civilian problems.

In direct support of today's legislation are two new programs which utilize scientific manpower to deal with law enforcement problems in southern California at the municipal level. One program is designed to speed various law enforcement processes through the increased application of computer technology to police work. A second program strengthens the government-industry alliance and stimulates scientific interest in municipal problems through the direct participation of the aerospace industry. This group has also directed its interest to the technical problems of law enforcement for several reasons. First, municipal police agencies have many technical prob

lems similar to those of military organizations and it is expected that solution techniques can be transferred directly to law enforcement use. Second, any program which utilizes the capabilities of the defensespace industry must achieve tangible results quickly in order to win acceptance and support by government and industry. Third, the maintenance of internal law and order is among the most important domestic problems facing the Nation today. Finally, the achievement of success in combining science and law enforcement will provide advantages to local industry through the creation and expansion of new markets and products for worldwide police use.

These examples of utilizing aerospace industry problem-solving techniques in municipal problem areas have been enthusiastically supported by local government agencies and industry. We believe this particular example of technology transfer underscores the wisdom and practicality of the legislation being considered today.

Our experience with the Southern California Industry Planning Seminar suggests that the Scientific Manpower Utilization Act will bring systems analysis and systems engineering to bear on problems of education, unemployment, welfare, crime, delinquency, pollution, housing, transportation, and waste disposal at the national level. We are also of the belief that the same technology can be extended to problems involving the development and administration of natural resources, that is, the management of power and water, recreational planning, fire prevention and control, weather and oceanographic forecasting, earthquake cause and prediction, flood control and

others. Thank you.

Senator NELSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Smith, for your fine contribution.

Do any of you have any questions?
Mr. SMITH. Thank you for taking the time.

Senator NELSON. Our next witness is Paul Schrade, California regional director of the United Auto Workers of America. Mr. Schrade, we are pleased to have you with us today. Do you have a prepared text?

Mr. SCHRADE. No, I don't. I have some remarks. I have made some notes.

Since I was advised by the Governor's office that this hearing was to be held in the middle of the week, and I have been to Washington and back and didn't have a chance to really prepare a written text. I think the point I want to make, at least try to make, will be brief.


UNITED AUTO WORKERS OF AMERICA Mr. SCHRADE. I represent some 65,000 members of the UAW, mainly living and working in California in the auto and aerospace industries. We have taken a very active part in supporting and defending the Governor in his programs to use systems engineering in solving major social problems. And we have done this in a cooperative and constructive way.

We feel that a great emphasis ought to be put on the human needs that will be served by these programs, and the problems also that will develop as a result of these programs.

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