are practiced against some unknown as they are when they are practiced against Arthur Ashe.

Fortunately, for us, there are people like Mr. Ashe who have just so dominated their field that they call attention to themselves and to these problems. We wouldn't want to see them just have some kind of a cure to prevent confrontations with people like Arthur Ashe.

It is a problem that deals with the whole country and all areas of life. Our problem is to decide how much we feel we can influence what they do as a country without marching in and telling them that this is how they have to do things.

One of the obvious areas to start with is athletics. Athletics is a tremendous thing to people all over the world. They look up to their national heroes and they want to watch them participate. They want to see how they are doing. Something like this becomes more important than the game, itself.

Mr. DIGGS. Your reference to the attitude of other country's representatives in connection with your Olympic experience also enlarges the whole concept of what we are talking about. This is not a matter which is just representing some kind of bilateral problem between the United States and South Africa.

I have in front of me here, for example, an article that refers to a statement made by the Prime Minister of Jamaica, Hugh Scherer, who called on all countries to exclude South Africa from international sporting events as long as she maintains an apartheid policy. Mr. Scherer said a speech made by Mr. Vorster recently clearly demonstrated that South Africa does not intend to relent from a policy of discrimination and did not care whether any other national competed with her as far as the field of sports is concerned.

When you add this to protests and demonstrations that have taken place in England, New Zealand, Australia, India, Pakistan, when you consider that the United Nations adopted a resolution calling upon all member nations to disengage from involving themselves in sports contests with South Africa, then it really becomes an international situation and not just something which is confined to the United States.

I would be interested in knowing if you can recollect just what these other representatives said in connection with these Olympic games, how they evaluated U.S. posture on this whole subject.

Mr. BOUTON. Any time a question of South Africa was going to be presented, either by one of the African nations or one of the other nations, the support for discussing the whole question always came from the Communist countries.

In fact, I asked Mr. Roby, who was the president of the American Olympic Committee, if any resolutions had been brought by the United States. I asked him, "Would it be possible for you to bring a resolution, if not banning South Africa from the Olympics, at least a resolution that called for all nations to live up to the Olympic charter which forbids discrimination?"

He said, "No. The United States hasn't been doing that."
I said, "Who does?"

He said, "Well, the Russians always do."

At the federation meeting that we sat in on, every time the African nations looked around for support on this issue, they always got it from the Communist countries and they never got any support at all

from the United States. They also got support from the other nonwhite nations, so it was nonwhite nations and Communist nations on one side lining up against the United States, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, and the mostly white nations on the other hand. It was very disturbing to envision.

I can see these delegates from these different sports groups going back to their nations. I am sure they are leaders and respected in their own countries. I can see them going back there and expressing the attitudes that they ran into at the Olympics.

Now I can see why people around the world demonstrate against us, because while we say something on the one hand for publication in some kind of an announcement or proclamation, we are doing just the exact opposite on the other hand when it gets down to really affecting people. We've got the "Ugly Americans" doing the personto-person work. We end up doing exactly the opposite of what say we would like to do.

Mr. DIGGS. That is a very disturbing coalition of forces that were lined up on both sides of the question, as you mentioned. It does indicate that this question is actually or can be actually involved in the propaganda war between the so-called free world and the socalled third world and the Communist bloc.

I think your statement just serves to reinforce the view that the implications of this whole matter go far beyond Arthur Ashe as an individual; go far beyond the sporting event with which he is identified; goes far beyond all sporting events. Some day there is going to be a reckoning. Some day somebody is going to start adding up the pluses and minuses with respect to America's posture on this general question and our attitude, our failure to implement these lofty pronouncements in international forums is going to find us very short. It could have very unfortunate results.

Do you belive that white American athletes, and this is on a private basis, should refuse to compete in tournaments with South Africa as long as black Americans are barred?

Mr. BOUTON. Definitely, I would, without hesitating, and I think that most white athletes if they understood the entire situation would do the same thing.

You are talking of professional athletes now?

Mr. DIGGS. Yes.

For example, suppose somebody set up a post-season game between the Houston Astros and the Johannesburg Bluebirds or something. Would you go over there and participate in such a game? or, if they were brought over here, would you participate in such a baseball game?

Mr.BOUTON. NO; I absolutely would not. When I am speaking now about the problems that we had with the athletic officials, I want to make a distinction between the officials and the athletes, themselves, because all the athletes that I've talked with seem to be of an entirely different mind than the people who were in charge of them. Mr. DIGGS. Did this include athletes?

Mr. BOUTON. This included athletes from the United States. They seemed to be entirely divorced from the feelings of the officials. It was a whole new breed, a whole new school of people. You had a small handful of officials that had their own view, and the athletes, themselves, had an entirely diffefent view. If they had put it up to a vote, there

would have been no question that South Africa wouldn't have been admitted to the games at all. This is just the American athletes.

Mr. DIGGS. Doesn't it strike you also that the continuation of this kind of problem could create some polarizing within the sports world? In other words, if these practices continued, and black athletes are subject to this sort of degradation, that the black athletes will feel as if they must become organized in some sort of fashion in order to fight against it?

I noted recently Jackie Robinson formed an association of black athletes headquartered in New York, the purpose of which is to fight. against racism within the sports field, I guess both domestically and internationally.

I have a telegram from Dr. R. Walter Johnson, who is head of a black tennis organization, who registers a protest on this. Perhaps the rationale for the establishment of the black tennis association-well, perhaps there wouldn't have been any rationale had there not been any problems of this type, that they feel they must weld themselves together to fight, despite the attitudes of whites such as yourself who have an understanding and appreciation for the principle involved here.

Wouldn't you think that this contributes to a polarization that might have an effect of taking us back to the old days when there were many incidents within the sports world, within the baseball world, that I am sure we hang our heads in shame to recall these days?

Mr. BOUTON. I think all black athletes and many white athletes are beginning to see that they have a common cause with their brothers all over the world. I would like to think that if there is going to be any polarization it would be between the athletes as a whole, both black and white, versus some sort of system or committee or set of rules. Now you see in professional athletics, not so much on the college level but in professional athletics, more white understanding of black problems and unification among athletes, both black and white.

Mr. DIGGS. I am certainly glad to hear you say that.

Mr. BOUTON. Maybe it is wishful thinking, and maybe I am saying what I would like to see, but I don't see the problem among athletes as I do between athletes and the system that they run into.

Mr. DIGGS. These kinds of incidents serve to sort of dramatize some of the practices and conditions under which black athletes have experiences away from the playing field.

I know I am in the process right now of discussions with the baseball commissioner about certain incidents, about preventing the recurrence of certain incidents that happened during spring training last year. It just happened that by the time these incidents happened and by the time I communicated with the president of the American League and the president of the National League, and then the baseball commissioner, that the question became moot because spring training

was over.

I have specific reference to the housing problem that Willy Horton had in Lakeland last year, and then Wills went into a bar with some of his colleagues down in some town in Florida where that team trains. Then there was one other gentleman whose name escapes me right now, but he ran into a problem.

I started communications with both leagues and with the baseball commissioner, asking them specifically, "What are you going to do

about all of this? Are you going to continue to let black athletes be degraded in these little postage-stamp towns down in Florida where most of these teams train, or are you going to serve notice, if necessary, on these communities that if any of the athletes continue to have these experiences you are just going to pull out of there and set up spring training some place else?"

I have renewed that matter recently in an effort to get some kind of definitive answer before this spring training begins. I am now awaiting word from the baseball commissioner regarding it. I am sure that the incident as it relates to Mr. Ashe will serve to sort of conjure up the whole subject of racism within the sports arena, not only on an international basis, but these incidents that crop up from time to time on a domestic basis.

We certainly appreciate your contribution. I am also certain that your testimony here today will be a very valuable part of the record, and hopefully will get the decisionmakers in our Government to recognize this whole matter for what it is and proceed to do something about.

Thank you very much.

Mr. BOUTON. Thank you.

Mr. DIGGS. Without objection, the telegram from Mr. R. Walter Johnson will be included at this point in the record. (The document to be supplied follows:)

[Telegram]

LYNCHBURG VA., February 4, 1970.

Congressman DIGGS,

Chairman, Subcommittee on African Affairs,
Rayburn Building, Washington, D.C.:"

I wish to register a protest against America competing against South Africa in Davis Cup competition. In retaliation against South Africa barring Ashe from playing in the South African championship.

Dr. R. WALTER JOHNSON.

Mr. DIGGS. The subcommittee stands in recess, subject to the call of the Chair.

(Whereupon, at 3:05 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.)