cation. You say you do this to get quality of education. I ask you, how are you going to get them integrated-not the quality of the education?

Mr. CARDWELL. I would like to emphasize we are not proposing financial assistance solely to bring about racial balance in this particular legislation that we have been talking about.

Senator MCCLELLAN. I am asking about your plans under the authority you have now under the Civil Rights Act, under which you are asking for this money. What are your plans about it, regardless of any future legislation?

Mr. CARDWELL. Under the legislation, our plans are to provide technical assistance to communities, on the one hand, that are under court orders and ask for help. On the other hand, we also can provide assistance to de facto districts that may need and want help. But the plan has to be developed at the local level.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Do you have any local-level plans in Washington to solve this problem?

Mr. CARDWELL. No specific plans for the District of Columbia; no sir.

CRUSADE AGAINST THE SOUTH AND SCHOOL SYSTEM DETERIORATION

Senator MCCLELLAN. You see, that is what I am talking about. It has been from the beginning and no one in authority can deny it-it has been a crusade against the South. I don't think you will have better schools. I think the school system in America is deteriorating every day.

MAINTENANCE OF ORDER IN SCHOOLS

I would like to ask you one question about this money. Do you have any money or plans in this request to help keep order in the school, to help maintain discipline? Do you have any funds assigned for this specific purpose?

Mr. ALLEN. This is a question that has to be handled in the local schools, Senator.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Oh, no. You have taken over the schools. You have forced this situation. I am talking about the Federal Government. You have forced it now. The conditions here in Washington, D.C., that are deplorable.

Do you have any plan, that deals with discipline in the schools? Mr. ALLEN. We are not in that business, sir. We are encouraging discipline, obviously, all the time. But it is not the function of the Federal Government to tell them how to do that.

Senator MCCLELLAN. It has come to that if you are to have any schools. You see it coming every day. Look at the turmoil today that never was here before, in the schoolroom. You can't have a school without discipline, and we know that. The discipline is deteriorating to where it hardly exists.

Yet we are going to force all these things. I think education is being degraded. I think it is deteriorating. And I think we do not have the quality of education that we had before you started this that I can see. I think it is apparent on its face.

I want to get this record straight. Where there is a community where they all want to go together, where there is a choice, good Lord, I believe in it. I believe they ought to have the right to educate their children in the circumstances that they want when they pay their taxes. I believe in freedom of choice. But this compulsion disrupts whole communities, creates a friction and engenders hate and bitterness. Strife is not conducive to building a good system of education, in my judgment.

Mr. ALLEN. Senator, these bills, this bill and the one Mr. Cardwell referred to, are intended to provide technical assistance so that we can help them. I think this is the proper role for the Federal Government.

GRANTS: WORKING WITH LOCAL BOARDS OF EDUCATION

Senator MCCLELLAN. I ask you one question. Does it help with discipline? And that is one of the biggest problems with schools today. There is not one thing for it, you say, no plan about it. You are going to leave it to them down there.

Mr. BRADER. In our experience working with grants to local boards of education, they have been able to take on to a great degree the problems of student behavior in the various schools, but it involves the avenue, the only avenue, that we have authority to approach, of working with teachers, working with guidance counselors, working with principals, working with community groups.

COURSE OF INSTRUCTION FOR TEACHERS TO MAINTAIN DISCIPLINE

Senator MCCLELLAN. Are there any courses of instruction that you give to teachers and to school officials that helps to train them to maintain discipline?

Mr. BRADER. Yes, sir. These are developed and given at the university desegregation centers.

Senator MCCLELLAN. What instruction do you give them about discipline? Do you have anything here in the literature, anything that you give to your instructors to use as a guide? Do you have anything at all?

Mr. BRADER. We have helped local school districts develop training manuals on how to maintain discipline in the classrooms.

Senator MCCLELLAN. If you developed it, you should have it? Have you anything?

Mr. BRADER. I don't have them with me, sir.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Do you have them in your office?

Mr. BRADER. Yes, sir.

Senator MCCLELLAN. That is what I am asking. I would like to have it filed here. I would like to have copies of it and see what we are doing along that line.

(The information was subsequently filed with the committee.)

SPECIFIC TRAINING PROGRAMS

Mr. CARDWELL. There are 127 local training programs that either directly or indirectly involve teacher training and include the subject of discipline as part of that training.

Senator MCCLELLAN. I want to see what instructions you give regarding discipline. I want to see what is in this program so that we can identify it and take a look and see what you are doing toward helping to bring about discipline in the schools.

Mr. BRADER. We will be pleased to submit examples for the record and a selection of training manuals for the committee file.

(The information follows:)

Solving Disciplinary Problems

The following items, included in proposals from four school districts,
make reference to components in each project which are designed to prevent
disciplinary problems from arising as a result of desegregation as well as
provide the means for solving those which may arise.

To establish respected outlets for both the trivial and significant discontent of students forced into a novel social environment which their prior experience ill-prepared them to handle.

To create a modern instrument for interpreting the student viewpoint to the school authority figures (administration and faculty) through persons with substantial credibility in both camps.

To create a vital element in the total innovative program for developing understanding and communications between the student and his adult leaders, and thereby evolving a more positive student image of the role of the school authority figures.

To establish a vehicle for reversing the trend toward impersonal and superficial pupil-school authority relationships (i.e., cultivating a feeling that someone cares.)

To take a giant step toward giving the students, black and white, the incentives for desiring full participation in our American society, for evolving a profound sense of personal worth, and a pride in being accepted.

Identify and describe the major typical attitudes and behavior patterns of children from various cultural groups and how those factors affect classroom situations.

Develop ways and means of cooperative and correlated efforts among teachers in providing instruction to meet the needs of individual pupils.

To guide teachers in acquiring a knowledge of the educational attainments of their individual pupils with special reference to the relative attainments of pupils from different disadvantaged and sub-cultural groups.

To provide bi-racial experiences for students which will develop understandings of individuals of different races.

Identify communications problems of deprived students.

We will have additional personnel, selected members from the Board of Education, parents, students and office personnel will be invited to participate in part or all of the programs.

Identify and describe the major typical attitudes and behavior patterns of children from various cultural groups and how those factors affect classroom situations.

Identify the needs of individual pupils in areas of counseling, guidance, school attendance and health.

Self-assessment of pupils.

Dissemination of information about the activities of the training program within the community.

1/Alachua County School Board, Gainesville, Florida

Monticello School District No. 18, Monticello, Arkansas

Canden School District No. 35, Camden, Arkansas

Conway School District No. 1, Conway, Arkansas

UNIVERSITY AND COLLEGE DISRUPTIONS

Senator MCCLELLAN. We are spending this money to better education. As I observe things I don't think I am exaggerating the reality— we have a terrific problem of discipline in our schools today, not only in the public schools but in our higher institutions of learning as well.

Mr. ALLEN. I would not deny that, but I would also like to say that an enormous number of boys and girls in this country are performing very well.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Who questions that? But a lot of them are not getting to go to school, because some of this element takes over. because of this trouble? How many in the country?

Mr. ALLEN. A great many.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Certainly.

Mr. ALLEN. All of them ought to be open.

Senator MCCLELLEN. Of course, they should be open. But why are they not? I can tell you why. Because we don't have the courage to go out and demand discipline in them.

FEDERAL FINANCING

Do you believe we ought to keep financing these colleges that let this roughneck element take over? Do you believe we should?

Mr. ALLEN. I think we should certainly take action

Senator MCCLELLAN. What action have you taken to discipline them, to help maintain order?

Mr. ALLEN. The law provides and the institution themselves have full authority to take action against students who disobey——

Senator MCCLELLAN. What action have you taken in your capacity and the power that you have, with respect to allocating funds to them, and so forth. You will withhold funds from a little school district in Arkansas that is slow about desegregating, but take one of your national colleges up here, one of the most popular that is shut down today because of lack of discipline, and you are still willing to go on and give them money.

Can you justify that as equal treatment under the law?

Mr. ALLEN. Well, Mr. Chairman, I don't think it is the same thing Senator MCCLELLAN. Not the same thing? Where a bunch of roughnecks take over a school and cause it to be closed down, a bunch of vandals, and the administration won't discipline them but simply adjourns school, you don't think that is the same thing or something comparable?

Mr. ALLEN. I certainly don't condone any institution administration that does not take appropriate action to maintain discipline. Senator MCCLELLAN. Do we penalize them in any way at all for not doing it?

Mr. ALLEN. No, and I don't think we should.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Do you mean we should let the riffraff take over and let the taxpayers support them?

Now, I am emphasizing again and again for this record that you are missing the boat, in my judgement, if you do not do something about discipline in the educational institutions of our country. Senator SMITH?

Senator SMITH. I have no question, Mr. Chairman.