I think our first limitation is politics, our second limitation then will become probably manpower and experience, because we will not be able to go ahead with any of these very important projects until we have first selected the right site in a very careful manner; and only then will the big job lie ahead of us. I feel that the main limitation today is the fear of the bomb and not funds.

Senator Moss. You talked about using the nuclear explosion to shatter rock. Is it possible also to fuse rock and in that way use it to be more structurally strong?

Dr. TELLER. Possibly, sir. I do not know. Let me tell you what I do know.

We have made underground explosions in this volcanic ash which has a porosity of approximately 20 or 25 percent, the pores being filled with strongly held water and the material consisting of silicates. In this material our first and typical explosion was a 1,700-ton TNTequivalent nuclear explosion. In either event it is described in detail in one of the appendixes which I have handed to you. The nuclear explosion blew a spherical hole into this of a diameter of 110 feet. This was lined with 4 inches of thickly fused material. We estimate that in a time between 30 seconds and 120 seconds this cavity collapsed. The fuse drop contained most of the radioactivity. This radioactivity now is not in this sphere, in the shell, nor is it at the place where the explosion had been fired, but in a cup into which this sphere has collapsed.

It is quite possible that in another material, like limestone or granite, a cavity with strong-fused walls would be created. I am not at all sure that this will happen.

If you would offer me a bet on even money, I would perhaps bet against it; however, it is the type of thing that we do not yet know. We have shattered this type of rock. It held itself so strongly that it was holding water permanently.

After a shot, a lot of it became temporarily easily permeable to water; or, at least, it so appeared. Whether in granite we will make a water impermeable layer, and maybe beyond it a fracture in water permeable zone, or whether we can do something else, I simply do not know.

These are the experiments which we have to carry out. I feel certain, however, that some materials will be able to shatter, at least, and in one case we have done it. I feel certain we can form craters and basins.

I am sure that we can cave in steep mountainsides, and therefore we can perform some important jobs. As to how many, how, what engineering specifications are needed, we are just beginning to develop means of finding the answers. If you give us your support and your encouragement, which is essentially what we need, and maybe later your financial support, too, I think that the result will be that 2 years from now or 5 years from now we can come back to you with a sound and safe program.

Senator Moss. Thank you very much, Dr. Teller. Your testimony certainly is interesting and I appreciate it very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. You have made a great contribution to this committee, Doctor. Your statement and the five appendixes will be included at this point.

Dr. TELLER. Thank you.

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA

Lawrence Radiation Laboratory

Livermore, California

SOME POTENTIAL USES OF NUCLEAR EXPLOSIVES IN THE

CONSERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF

WATER RESOURCES

May 24, 1960

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The peacetime application of nuclear explosives to the conservation and development of our national water resources is, at this time, of sufficient promise to present some of the possibilities publicly. In nuclear explosives man has at his disposal and service, a powerful source of energy - a new tool

that we believe can be utilized safely to excavate channels and lake basins, or to create conduits of broken permeable material and underground reservoirs. In surveying the possible applications of nuclear explosives, the following ideas are among those worthy of serious consideration: (a) the use of nuclear explosives for the economic movement of large volumes of earth in the construction of earthfill dams, (b) the use of nuclear explosives for the diversion of a stream from a river system, whose flow is largely lost to the sea, into another stream channel leading to an arid section or a closed basin, (c) the use of nuclear explosives to create a recharge basin or a conduit to a subsurface aquifer for fresh water recharge, and (d) the use of nuclear explosives to create off-channel reservoirs for the elimination of saline waters through recharge to a mineralized aquifer and by evaporation. Although the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory is expert in the development of nuclear explosives and in the analysis of the effects of explosives on the surrounding media, other relevant fields need to be explored, such as engineering, geology, and geohydrology. It is with the hope of enlisting the aid and interest of the fellow scientists, engineers, and others interested in water conservation that we prepare this report. The future exploration and development of peaceful uses of nuclear explosives in the field of water resources will require an inter-disciplinary effort.

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