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a remuneration would be wholly extrava- | the whole, so large a retiring allowance as gant. He should, therefore, support the those who had performed the same quanamendment.
tity of business with greater despatch. Sir Charles Wetherell said, the official Mr. Sergeant Wilde was much surassignee would perform neither the duties prised at the remark made by the hon. of solicitor, manager, nor steward; his whole Gentleman. The lists of Commissioners duties would be to receive the assets and before which private meetings were held, pay them into the Bank. In general, were, in fact, the only lists competent to where his duties would be least, there discharge the duties required of them. he would receive the largest remuneration. In short, solicitors who had business that There might be difficulties in fixing the ex- required such mectings, kuew it was useact amount of the per centage, but certainly less to go before any of the other lists. they were not insurmountable, and most Mr. Robert Grant said, as he was one assuredly, unlimited payment would cause of that list of Commissioners which had so much disgust, that it must soon be put had the most private meetings, he felt an end to.
bound to notice the remark of the hon. Mr. John Campbell said, all the hon. member for Bridport. The fourteenth list Gentleman's arguments proceeded upon of which he was a member, had done by the fallacy, that the official assignee was far the most work, and they were the least to have a poundage, but that was not the paid. His emoluments, on an average, for case. The remuneration he was to have, fifteen years, had been under 4001. per according to the Bill, was the exact annum. He trusted the hon. Member amount the Commissioners thought ade- meant no imputation upon him; or if he quate to his services, but in no case to did, it would have been well exceed five per cent on the assets. It had him notice, that he might have been prebeen demonstrated by the hon. Member pared to defend himself if necessary. for Leicester, that the remuneration must Mr. Warburton said, that his remark in a great degree be left to the discretion was not intended to apply to the right hon. of some person, and the hon. Member Gentleman; he had not said, or implied, suggested the creditors as the proper par- that the meetings were held from a corrupt ties, but that would be to make them motive, but merely, that they caused delay Judges in their own cause—a case at all and expense, and he considered he was times to be avoided.
entitled to deliver an opinion, let who Mr. Burge begged to observe to the might be affected by it. hon, and learned Gentleman, that there Sir Charles Wetherell begged to assure were always two parties to a contract: he the hon. member for Bridport, it was perwho performed a given service, and he fectly notorious, that the Lists of Commiswho was to pay for it; and what they sioners which had the most private busicomplained of was, that those who would ness, were the most efficient. have to pay had no voice in fixing the Mr. Freshfield begged to ask the noble amount of remuneration.
Lord, whether he would permit some Sir Charles Forbes said, they certainly alteration to be made in the clause, so as might limit the sum on which the maximum to regulate the remuneration of the ComCommission of five per cent should be missioners generally. As the clause now granted.
stood, it appeared as if there was to be Mr. Warburton said, he felt it quite some distinction made. impossible to establish a graduated scale Lord Althorp said, certainly, it was inof remuneration. The best course would tended that some distinction should be be to strike out all mention of more or less made. It was never meant, that each per centage, and the clause would then Commissioner who would be reduced, was leave the payment to the discretion of the to have a compensation for the loss of his Commissioners.
office; because many had been appointed Mr. Freshfield withdrew his amend- underthe express understanding, that if any ment.
alteration were made which would abolish Clause agreed to.
their offices, they were not to expect On the Compensation Clause being read, remuneration. This regulation would be
Mr. Warburton was of opinion, that adhered to, and it was the object of the those Commissioners who had held the present wording of the clause, to carry it most private meetings, did not deserve, on into effect.
The Clause added to the Bill.
as Mr. Hoppner's letter, announcing the The Attorney-General brought up a compliance with our demands, was not clause, providing, that the Judges and received till the 14th of May. M. D'Asother officers appointed under this Bill, seca's letter of the 14th of May was not should be incapable of sitting in Parlia- included in the papers presented to Parment.
liament, because it described itself as being Agreed to.
a confidential communication, and because The House resumed, and the Report it had an inclosure containing remarks on was brought up.
the French demands, which it was not
thought right to publish.-Totheright hon. PORTUGAL.) Mr. Courtenay, seeing Gentleman's second question he had tostate the noble Lord, the Secretary of State for that the channel through which his MaForeign Affairs, in his place, begged to jesty'sGovernment received the first intima. ask him the following questions with re- tion of the intention of the French Governspect to the atfairs of Portugal :-first, ment to send a naval force to the Tagus, whether the Viscount D'Asseca did not was a despatch from Lord Granville, dated address to the noble Lord, on the fourth April 4th, in which that nobleman stated of May last, an application on the part of that Count Sebastiani had informed bim, the Portuguese Government, in respect of in conversation, that the French Govern. the demands of France, as the Viscount ment might find it necessary to send a states in his letter of the 23rd of June ?- fleet to the Tagus, if no satisfaction were Secondly, at what period, and through given to France by Don Miguel's Governwhat channel, did his Majesty's Govern- ment.—To the question of whether the ment receive the first intimation of the letter to Mr. Hamilton was the first comintention of the French Government to munication made upon the subject to the send a naval force to the Tagus?-- Thirdly, French Government, he had to answer, was the letter of the 17th of June to Mr. yes, the first written communication. To Hamilton, the first communication made the fourth question he begged to reply, thereupon to the French Government? -- that his Majesty's Government had not Fourthly, whether Admiral Roussin's let. received a copy of Baron Roussin's letter ters of July 11th, to which the Viscount of July 11th to which M. D'Asseca alluded D’Asseca refers in his letter of the 1st of in his note of the 1st of August.-To the August, will be among those papers ?
-fifth question he replied, that no copy of Fifthly, whether his Majesty's Government any protest of M. Cassas against the eshad a copy of M. Cassas' protest, to which tablishment of a Commission at Lisbon the Viscount D’Asseca refers in his letter had been received by his Majesty's Goof the 23rd of June, and will lay it before vernment.--To the last question his reply the House ?-Sixthly, whether his Ma- was, that no formal communication had jesty's Government had received any in- been received by his Majesty's Government telligence of the formal termination of the with respect to the termination of the war war which existed between France and between France and Portugal, except the Portugal ?
Convention of Lisbon, and the announceViscount Palmerston had to apologize ment made by the French Government, to his right hon. friend for not having that they had attained that satisfaction afforded him the opportunity of asking which was the object of their expedition, these questions before. He would then and that their fleet had, consequently, left answer them as shortly, and as explicitly the Tagus. as his right hon, friend had asked them. To the first, he begged to reply, that a letter was delivered to him personally by HOUSE OF LORDS, M. D'Asseca on the 4th of May. No an- Tuesday, October 18, 1831. swer was given to that letter in writing, but Viscount D’Asseca was verbally informed MINUTES.) Bills. Returned from the Commons; Benk.
ruptcy Court and Interpleader ; Crown Lands Ipelosure. that his Majesty's Government would not in- Petitions presented. In favour of Reform. By Lord Dove: terfere in the case, but strongly advised the
and the LORD CHANCELLOR, from the Inhabitants of
Shefford, Dronfield, Knaresborough, Chapel-le-Firth, Portuguese Government to give just satis
Peterbead, Royal Burgh of Taip, Fleshers Incorporation faction to the French demands. At this of Perth, Inhabitants of Stickney, Steeple Aston, and
Dalmellington. Against the Reforın Bill. By Land time, it was uncertain whether England
FARNHAM, from the Corporations of Sadler, Upholster herself would not be at war with Portugal, ers, Coachmakers, Barbers and Surgeons, Cutlers; from
the Guild of Merchants, Dublin, and from the Coalmeters no delay, for the inquiry might have been of Dublin, praying for Compensation ; from the Corporation of Weavers, Dublin, praying for the establishment fully made in five minutes. The Lord of a Board of Trade in that City; from Clowes, in Monaghan, Chief Baron of the Scotch Court of Exfor the extension of the Tithe Composition Act, and from chequer was in town, and if they had Grant to the Kildare Street Society. By the Earl of called on him to attend there, he would CAWDOR, from Nairnshire, not to be joined with another at once have told them, that the Court in County under the Reform Bill :-By a Noble LORD, from
question only tried, on an average, two Inhabitants of Fethard, Templetown, and St. James's, Wexford, for the Yeomanry to be disbanded:--By a defended causes in the course of a year. NOBLE LORD, from the Landowners, Merchants, Freemen, He would not have troubled their LordFranchise of that place to Catholics equally with Pro ships on this subject, however, had it not testants.
been for the imputations that had been
thrown out against the Lord Chief Baron, ExchEQUER COURT (SCOTLAND) | as if he had been the cause of this Bill BILL.] The Lord Chancellor presented being introduced, in order to procure a nine Petitions in favour of the Reform Bill sinecure for himself; whereas, in point of from Tain, Peterhead, and different places fact, the only effect of the Bill, as far as it in the counties of Derby, Lincoln, and regarded him, was to reduce his salary Ayr. On presenting some petitions for one-half! His hon, and valued friend, Reform, his Lordship took the opportunity the Lord Chief Baron of the Court of Exof saying a few words respecting a Bill chequer in Scotland, had nothing to do which had been by him lately brought with the Bill. He (the Lord Chancellor) into their Lordships' House, and which had not had the slightest communication had passed there without a dissentient with the Lord Chief Baron about it. He voice. The Bill to which he alluded was had had no reason to believe that his hon. the Bill for the abolition of the Court of friend was any otherwise than averse to Exchequer in Scotland. The considera- the Bill, since it reduced the income of tion of that Bill had been postponed from his sinecure from 4,0001. a-year to 2,0001. time to time in another place, in order to the whole was a sinecure, except as to the make way for what was there considered trial of the two causes, and he had had no as business of a more urgent nature, and reason to believe that his hon. friend was ultimately thrown over for the present would not have been very willing to try Session. He took the opportunity of two causes in a-year for 2,0001., being at stating his deep regret at this delay, and the rate of 1,0001. per cause. He declared bis deep sense of the inexpediency of that most solemnly, that he himself had madelay, and his thorough conviction of the tured the Bill, without any communicatotal uselessness of the inquiry, upon the tion with the Lord Chief Baron. To be ground of the propriety of which the delay sure, his hon. and worthy friend cheerfully was attempted to be justified. It had been consented to the arrangement made by said, that an inquiry by a Committee was the Bill; but that was an abandonment called for, since, without such inquiry, the by him of 2,0001. of his income ; and yet, House could not know that the Court was ignorant and factious men imputed to him a sinecure. But,what was passing in Courts that this Bill was a job of bis, prepared by of Justice was matter of common notoriety. him for his own benefit. It was of great What passed in the Court of King's Bench, importance to the public to get rid of the Common Pleas, Exchequer, or Chancery, expense of this Court, and it was of much or any other Court of Justice here, was more importance in another view than matter of common notoriety, inasmuch as that of the mere money saved; for it was they were open to all his Majesty's sub- of the highest importance that the public jects, and to which the public had a right should not be put to expense for the supof access, and upon the ground of that port of Courts where the situations of the notoriety, he had always understood that Judges were sinecures, since an expense of Parliament had a right to legislate. To that kind was derogatory to the judicial say that this, or that the other House had character, and Judges ought always to be no right to legislate upon the open, broad, not only without blame, but above susand notorious fact, without a previous in picion. This last consideration was of quiry by a Committee, was the most ex- more consequence than the mere saving, traordinary proposition that he had ever and he hoped that the Bill would be passheard of. If, however, they thought fit to ed at the earliest period in the next Sesgo into the inquiry, there need have been sion. Having thus cleared his hon, friend, the Lord Chief Baron, from the unfounded appointed him to be a Master in Chancery; accusations against him, he might be per- and Lord Eldon not having done it, he mitted to say a few words about some ad-had determined to do it. But the imputaditional unfounded imputations against tion upon him as to the appointment of himself. It had been said, that he had this gentleman was not a bit more perverse called upon Masters in Chancery to retire, and unfounded than the imputation with in order to have an opportunity of appointing respect to Mr. Henry Martin, who was the others in their stead, who were considera- fittest person that could be found. He bly advanced in age.
But he had never hoped he did not improperly trespass on called upon Masters in Chancery to retire; the time of their Lordships when he took he had no power to call upon them to the opportunity to repel these most unretire, or at least he had no power to call founded imputations, which he did with on them to obey. But one did retire, and perfect good humour, although it might at presented to him a certificate that he had first be difficult to conceive the ignorance served the office for twenty-six years, con- and perversion of understanding from siderably more than the time required to which they had originated. But certain entitle him to his retiring pension; and persons had successors, and these persons that he (the Lord Chancellor) was bound did not much like their successors, and to admit, unless he could show, which he were not very scrupulous about matters of could not, that the retiring master was fact when they endeavoured to vituperate perfectly able to discharge bis duties. But and disparage these successors and to then it had been said, that he had appointed destroy the Government with which they masters of sixty-five and seventy years of were connected; and the hostility was the age. Well; what then? If they had been more embittered when they saw no reasonpersons in high practice, and of acknow-able prospect of succeeding their successledged experience and talents, and were ors. Their position was, indeed, cheerless, still in the full possession of their powers, and dark, and dismal, with scarcely the why not appoint them? But at the same feeblest ray of light to comfort them, or time he had taken care that they should alleviate the despair to which they were not have their retiring pensions unless they doomed. “But we," continued his Lord- . served the office for the full period required ship, “ cared less for this dark position; for by the existing regulations, and a minute we were intent upon plans of Reform in of this had been entered in the Court of the Law, upon plans of Reform in ParliaChancery, so that his successor might be ment, and upon projects for the advantage officially apprised that, unless the masters of our own country and the general benefit when they retired had served the office of mankind; and the contemplation of for twenty years, they were entitled to no these subjects enlightened and cheered us pension. And this was what was called in the long gloom in which we were imjobbing! Oh; but then it was said that mured. But now that our opponents are one of the appointed masters, his old and immersed in that dismal gloom, they have valued friend, Mr. Henry Martin, had nothing like this to cheer them--nothing to been retired from practice for fifteen years. dispel the dark horrors of their position, The fact was, that it was fifteen months. except a dim, twinkling, glimmering light, He had been in practice in the Court of to shew them the way back to their old Exchequer, and at the head of that Bar, places. Under these sad and dismal till within this year and a quarter: he had circumstances, it is natural that they seen him there; and he defied any one to should resort to a little railing to comfort find a better Master; he was the very best and cheer them; and hence we may acthat could have been found in the Court count for these gross misrepresentations of of Chancery for these last twenty years. fact, to some of which I have had occasion With another Master in Chancery—the to call your Lordships' attention. I have first whom he had appointed-he had never returns to prove what I have stated in been in the same room till he had ap- regard to the Court of Exchequer.” pointed him; and a gentleman more The Duke of Buccleugh inquired whether adverse to his party and to his political the noble and learned Lord had any obviews, both as to Church and State, he jection to lay those returns on the table? could not have appointed. That gentle- The Lord Chancellor said, that he had
friend of Lord Eldon's, and he no objection, thought that Lord Eldon ought to have
Select Vestries' Bill.] On the Order | Petitions presented. By Mr. SADLER, from Joseph Alday,
now confined in Birmingham, against the Law of Libel, of the Day being moved for receiving the
and from the Corporation of Galway, for equalizing Civil Report of the Select Vestries' Bill,
Rights in that place; from the Overseers of Spinning The Earl of Falmouth said, that he had Mills at Dundee, for the extension of Cotton Apprentices
Bill to Scotland; from the Landed Proprietors and Inhabitalready given notice of an Amendment he
ants of the Island of Freenish, complaining of the Reducintended to propose, and to induce their tion of the duty on Barilla, and from the Rector and InLordships to adopt his views ; he begged
habitants of Satwell, for the abolition of Slavery:-By
Mr. Hodson, from the Shipowners of Barnstaple against to repeat the observations he had previously the Tax on Marine Insurances :-By Colonel TORRENS, made. There was a palpable difference from Inhabitants of London and Westminster, for a re
vision of the Corn Laws. For Reform. By Lord KILLEEN, between large and populous places, and
from Screen and Rath :-By Mr. Hume, from the Chairsmall rural parishes, and they required a man of a Meeting at Paisley; from Merchants at Londifferent method of management.
He don, complaining of Vessels being captured by the Bra
zilian Squadron, in 1826 and 1827; from the Inhabitant therefore thought it was inexpedient to
Householders of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, for the abolition extend the provisions of the Act before of the Church Establishment in Ireland, the discontinue them indiscriminately, and he meant to
ance of the Grant to the Kildare Street Society, and the
continuance of that to Maynooth; from the Members of propose an amendment from which he
the Clerkenwell Reform Union, for the Repeal of the considered some advantage would be Duties on Newspapers, Pamphlets, &c., and from the derived. He proposed to insert the fol
Tithe-payers of the Parish of Knockbreda, for the abolition
of Tithes :-By Mr. SPRING Rice, from the Committees lowing words as part of the clause, “And
of the Clare and General Dispensary of the Barony of be it further enacted, that nothing in this Gallen, for an Amendment of the Act 50th George 3rd ;
from the Foreman of the Clare Grand Jury, praying, Act contained, shall extend to parishes
that the Act 1th George 4th, for Repair of Roads, be rewhere there is not a greater number of newed ; from the Magistrates, Clergy, and Landholders of persons than 600 paying rates to the poor."
the Barony of Meycallen, for the reduction of the duty on
Barilla ; from the Chairman of a Meeting of the InhabitViscount Melbourne requested that the
ants of Dublin, for the introduction of Poor Laws into consideration of this Amendment might be Ireland; from the Inhabitants of Stockport, against the postponed, because he apprehended it
proposed plan for enabling Parishes to mortgage their rates
to furnish the means of Emigration; from the Free Burmust be a rider to the Bill.
gesses of Liverpool, against the Liverpool Franchise Bill; The Earl of Falmouth had no objection
from the Chamber of Commerce, Galway, for a provision to the noble Lord's proposal.
in the Irish Reform Bill to preserve the peculiar Franchise
of that place; from the Members of the Doagh Reform The Bishop of London proposed an Committee, complaining of the Expenditure and Tolls Amendment, to the effect that, when the of certain Turnpike Roads:-By Mr. Hume, from Owen
Davies, complaining of his arrest for vending Berthold's places where Vestries had been usually
Political Handkerchief, and praying for an alteration of the held were found inconvenient, they might Law :-By Mr. Robinson, from Inhabitants of Blockbe held in other places.
house, Worcester, for an alteration of the Sale of Beer
Bill; and by Mr. HENRY WILLIAMS, from the FreeAgreed to.
holders and other persons, Owners of Real Property at The Lord Chancellor still thought that Darlington, Gainsford, West Auckland, Heighington,
and Harworth, against the General Registry Bill. the adoption of this kind of Select Vestries should be in the voters who chose to attend. It would be utterly impossible to get 7,001
Reform-Petitions.] Mr. Hunt preof the rate payers of St. Pancras to attend, sented a Petition from John Duffy stating so as to form a majority of the 14,000 in that the Reform Bill was defeated by the the parish. He would, however, postpone Bishops, and praying that they might be his amendment on that head till next year.
Mr. John Campbell said, he deplored
the presentation of such a petition. It HOUSE OF COMMONS,
could not fail to be productive of bad efTuesday, October 18, 1831.
fects. Nothing could injure the cause of
Reform, except the indiscreet efforts of MINUTES.) Bills brought in. By Mr. SADLER, to better the pretended friends.
He likewise begged condition of the Labouring Poor. Read a third time and
io observe, that attempts such as those passed; Crown Lands; Inclosure. (Standing Order suspended).
Jately made to dictate to Ministers, by cerReturns ordered. On the Motion of Colonel Evans, or the tain parties in the metropolis, relating to Vessels employed and belonging to the Port of Rye from
a short adjournment were most decidedly the years 1820, to 1830, respectively :-On the Motion of Lord Killeen, of the number of Newspaper Stamps mischievous. He doubted whether the issued for the year ending the 5th of October, 1831 :-On
petition ought to be received. the Motion of Colonel Sibthorp, the number of Persons convicted of the crimes of Horse and Sheep stealing, and
Mr. George Robinson said, this petition the Sentences passed upon them throughout England and had a family likeness to several other most Wales, from the year 1826, up to the latest period, and of the number of Steam Vessels belonging to Government
extraordinary petitions which the hon. with their Tonnage, and the power of their Machinery.
Member was frequently in the habit of in