consider what those alterations should be; be expected that they should give up but he distinctly added that he would their private concerns altogether, or do never be a party to, or recommend any without some relaxation. At the same measure of Reform, which was not founded time he fully admitted that every other on similar principles, and as effective as consideration should yield to a sense of regarded its declared object, as that which public duty. Whatever that required, he was lately before Parliament. This was and his colleagues would advise ; but they the whole of what passed between him and had a right to claim credit to this extent, the delegates from the parishes, except that whether they were to think it expedithat when they represented to him that ent to recommend the prorogation of Parif satisfaction was not given to the public, liament for the usual time or not, they did as to the length of time on which Parlia- proceed with a sincere desire to effect the ment was to be prorogued, it would tend great object they had in view—the meato increase the agitation and excitement sure of Reform; and he felt after all that which prevailed; he felt himself called had passed, that he did not call on his upon to inform those who communicated fellow-countrymen for too much, when he with him that it was their duty to use all asked them to wait patiently before they the means in their power to repress agita- pronounced a censure on what might not tion and excitement, and to keep the peo- appear to them quite conformable with the ple in obedience to the laws of the country, promotion of this great measure, though it that the Ministers might not be placed might ultimately tend to it. He felt that in the painful situation of being compelled he had said a great deal on this subject, to use those powers which, as a Govern-more, perhaps, than was necessary. He ment, it was their duty to use for the pre-asked pardon for the defective manner in servation of the public peace. With which, he feared, he had laid the financial respect to the prorogation, he would only part of this statement before their Lordsay, that whatever might be the length of ships; but then they were aware that he the period to which his Majesty's Minis- was not accustomed to those statements. ters thought it their duty to recommend He hoped, however, that he had suffihis Majesty to prorogue Parliament, it ciently shewn the result-founded on a would be regulated by a sincere desire to knowledge of the receipts and expenditure do that which they considered most con- of the three last quarters, that there was a ducive to the advancement of the great surplus revenue of 493,000l. If he had measure of Parliamentary Reform. It wished, he might have stated the result must be considered, however, that there more advantageously to himself, and made were limits to human strength. From the the excess appear greater. Thanking their month of October last, with a short inter- Lordships for their indulgence, he should mission, more fatiguing, perhaps, than now conclude, hoping that if anything even the sitting of Parliament, his Majes-occurred, in the course of debate calling ty's Ministers had been engaged in anxious for it, he should be allowed again to adand laborious occupation. His noble dress them. friend on the Woolsack, for instance, had gone through a degree of labour, in that House and out of it, which nothing but his extraordinary strength of mind and body could have enabled him to go through. In the other House, two noble friends of his, on whom the business of conducting the Reform Bill peculiarly devolved, besides the duties of their offices, had been in constant attendance in the House of Commons, early and late, during the last three months. His noble friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, particnlarly, had been compelled to devote his time incessantly to the discharge of his public duties. Many Members of Parliament, too, had private business which required attention, and it could not

The Duke of Wellington was happy to find the noble Earl thought himself justified in denying some part of his statement, and that the noble Earl calculated upon a larger surplus than he had given credit for.

He was also glad to hear the negotiations relating to Belgium and Holland were likely to be brought to a successful termination. As to the excitement to which the noble Earl had alluded, this was not the time to go into the question. He agreed however with the noble Earl, that it was greatly to be lamented, but he had his own opinions as to the causes of it. He trusted, however, noble Lords and hon. Gentlemen of the other House would be careful how they promoted it by speeches either in or out of Parliament.

Bill read a third time and passed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Monday, October 17, 1831.

MINUTES.] Bills brought in. By Lord Viscount DUNCANNON,

The Lord Chancellor said, in conse- none could feel more devoted than he and quence of attempts that were most perti- his colleagues. The public would see naciously made to induce a belief that when that measure was again brought bethere existed a difference of opinion before Parliament, the candour with which tween his noble friend (Earl Grey) and they had acted, and that the period that himself upon the subject of Reform; he would intervene was no longer than was would take that opportunity to repeat, that required, he would not say in justice, but he heartily and fully concurred in all the in mercy. remarks made by his noble friend. He had expressed the same sentiments before, but this had not induced certain persons to desist from misrepresentation; he spoke in the presence of his colleagues, and he would declare, there had never been the slightest difference of opinion between his noble friend and himself respecting the most minute details of the Bill-he would not say the principle, for as to that, it must be evident they all agreed; but he would say, even the smallest particular of it. He had only to add on the subject of the recess, that he had no apprehensions from the impatience of two or three individuals, well disposed and respectable persons, no doubt, and most zealous for the success of the Reform Bill, but who in recommending a prorogation for a week, cer

to enable Churchwardens and Overseers to enclose Lands belonging to the Crown for the benefit of Poor Persons residing in the parishes where such Crown Lands are situated. Read a third time; Interpleader. Returns ordered. On the Motion of Mr. HUNT, of all the Expenses incurred in holding the late Special Commissions:--On the Motion of Colonel EVANS, of the Expense of the Military Asylums of Chelsea, Isle of Wight, Southampton, &c., from the first establishment to 31st December, 1850:-On the Motion of Mr. RUTHVEN, of the Fees received by the Commissioners of Bankrupts in Dublin, for the year 1829, 1850, and 1831, ending the 31st March in each year; of the Emoluments received by the Secretary and Clerk of Emoluments during the same time, and of all sums paid for Sealing Commissions, for the same time, distinguishing each year:-On the Motion of Mr. PouLETT THOMSON, the quantity of unrefined Sugar entered for Home Consumption, and the duty paid thereon from

1815 to 1831.

tainly did not display a "zeal according Petitions presented. By Mr. DOMINIC BROWNE, from Land

to knowledge." He must declare his opinion, that for the Session to recommence after so brief an interval, and to expect his noble friends in another place to renew their advocacy of the measure was physically impossible-human strength could not endure it. After having given three months, day and night, to deliberation and discussion, it was positively necessary, that some considerable relaxation should be had. None felt more than he did the impossibility of continuing such exertions. It was about twelve months since he began hard work in London, and during that whole time he had enjoyed no respite with the exception of two days at Christmas and Easter. During that period he had been occupied from six o'clock in the morning till midnight; and if any man was so unreasonable as to say, he ought not to be allowed a little repose, with that man he would not stop to argue. He would throw himself on the good sense and kind feeling of his countrymen, and he was confident they would not bring in a verdict of Guilty. Whatever advice should be offered as to the time of prorogation, the people of England might rest assured, that it would be given on a solemn principle of public duty, and with a view to the carrying of that measure to which

owners, Merchants, and others, of Newtownsmith, for the extension of the Elective Franchise of Galway to Catholics.

GENERAL REGISTRY BILL.] Mr. Blamire, in presenting a Petition from certain Freeholders near Cockermouth, in the County of Cumberland, against the General Registry Bill, stated, that his Constituents were very adverse to the measure, because they apprehended that they would be obliged to send their title-deeds to London; that a great expense would be incurred by landowners in the remote parts of the kingdom, in searching the register; that it would be necessary to employ London solicitors in all transactions of sale and mortgage arising in the country; from the minute divisions of property in Cumberland, it would cause so much expense as wholly to prevent the transfer of small estates, and that, from there being so many persons in Cumberland of the same name, the index to the register would afford no information. They were not aware of any instances of estates being lost by concealed deeds. But there was a grievance felt there, which if it could be cured by a clause in the Bill, his constituents would be willing to agree to all the inconveniences of registration, which was, that almost every estate was held by

that by certain Bills which had lately passed, | because they were fully convinced the 300,000 oaths which had been previously law was clear against them. One inditaken annually at the Excise and Custom vidual alone, in Calcutta, had abandoned Offices were abolished. He knew a person property to the amount of a lack of who declared that he had taken upwards rupees, about 12,000l., on this point of 1000 such oaths, and had never inquired alone, without making any attempt whatas to the object of any of them. ever to retain it. Petition to be printed.

PILGRIM TAX.] Mr. Wilks presented a Petition from Protestant Dissenters at Reading, for the extension of civil rights to the inhabitants of India, and for the suppression of the Pilgrim Tax. A discussion had recently taken place upon this latter part of the subject, as to whether Hindoos on becoming Christians forfeited their property, and considerable doubts prevailed upon the point; but from information which he had recently received from Calcutta, he could affirm, that a Hindoo on becoming a Christian, was condemned by British Judges in India to the forfeiture of his property.

Mr. Cutlar Fergusson said, in consequence of the former discussion, he had examined all the authorities on the subject, and he could discover no one instance of a native of India losing his inheritance on becoming a Christian. He was quite sure no Court of Law, in a country where Christian government was established, would condemn a man to the forfeiture of his property on adopting the religion of the Government. According to the Hindoo laws, a man must be perfect before he could inherit property; if he was lame, blind, or imbecile in mind, he was excluded. These laws, however, were never enforced. He had known an instance of a person who was blind, who had recovered an estate worth 30,000 rupees; and no one had ventured to object, on account of his infirmity, although the letter of the law was clearly against him. And so it would be ruled, should any such application be made to a Court on a man becoming a Christian; it was perfectly impossible that a British Judge could decree that a man was to lose his inheritance from embracing the Christian religion.

Mr. Cutlar Fergusson said, if persons felt themselves aggrieved in this respect, they would of course make application to the local government of British India, which had the power to make and amend the laws and regulations for the administration of property, both of Hindoos and Mahometans, being the subjects of their government, and under their jurisdiction. That circumstance all those persons well knew, and the records of India would consequently shew whether any applications had been made on the point. In the absence of any such application (for he could take it upon himself to say none such existed) it was but fair to infer, that the grievance did not exist. If it did exist, persons should apply to the local governments in India which had the power to afford them redress.

Petition to be printed.

REFORM-PETITIONS.] Mr. Dominick Browne presented a Petition from Galway for the speedy passing of the Reform Bill. He wished to observe, that there was a unanimous feeling in Ireland in favour of the Bill. It was universally hoped, that Ministers would not relax in their exertions until they had carried a question which the great mass of the community expected would produce great benefit to both countries.

Mr. Hunt said, that as he was not acquainted with Ireland, he would not deny the assertion of the hon. Member; but they had had the same assertion made with respect to England, and he knew that that was not the fact. It was only the corrupt Press that represented the feeling as universal in favour of the Bill. The other day, there was a meeting at Birmingham, said to consist of a 150,000 persons; and as that meeting was in favour of the Bill, the Press made the Mr. Wilks believed, notwithstanding the most of it. But there was also, the other great deference due to the hon. and day, as large a meeting at Manchester, learned Member's authority, that the hon. which had been called by the Whigs, Member was mistaken on the subject. but at which they had been completely He had known cases in India, in which beaten, and therefore the account of it persons would not even try the question, was almost suppressed by the public and had given up considerable property, papers. What they did state of it was

amount of half a million. He agreed perfectly with the hon. Members who had spoken before. Ireland undoubtedly ought tohave at least 150 Representatives, taking into account the amount of its relative population to that of the whole empire.

wrong. They said that the meeting was | in favour of the Reform Bill, but the truth was, that an amendment was carried, and the meeting had petitioned for Universal Suffrage, Annual Parliaments, and Vote by Ballot; and Lord Grey was requested to present a Petition, founded on these resolutions, to his Majesty. In all probability, however, they would hear no more of the petition, as it was opposed to the measure brought forward by Ministers. Instead of the flags at the meeting, as it was asserted, having the words "The Reform Bill," "William 4th and the Ministers;" they had the words" Univer-stance. Did hon. Gentlemen who set up sal Suffrage," "Annual Parliaments," and "Vote by Ballot."

Sir John Bourke said, as a proof that there was almost a universal feeling in Ireland in favour of the Reform Bill, he must state, that he had recently been at a meeting in Ballinasloe of all the gentry and landed proprietors of that part of the country, and he never saw a greater degree of anxiety evinced in favour of any measure than was there evinced in favour of the Reform Bill.

Sir Richard Vyvyan did not think that the amount of population alone was a reason in favour of the extension of Members to Ireland, as to the borough of Dundalk, such places were often of great advantage, as they brought to Parliament Irish Members, and he might mention the recent case of Milbourn Port as an in

that plea consider the amount of population in British India. If the measure had been framed only on the basis of population, they night claim Members, but that was not the case, property was also taken into consideration, and Ireland had her fair share of Members in proportion to her contributions to the general revenue.

Mr. Ruthven said, he was surprised at the inconsistency of the hon. member for Preston, who seemed to have joined the Tories in making attacks upon the late measure of Reform. That Bill had met the approval of the great body of the Irish people; but he, in common with the great body of his countrymen, laid claim to a large increase of Representatives for Ireland.

Mr. Dominick Browne, in reference to the remarks of the hon. member for Preston, felt himself called upon to repeat, that the great majority of the people of Ireland were in favour of Reform. He could distinctly affirm, that was the case in the county he had the honour Mr. Leader agreed with the honto represent. The same feeling was pre-ourable Baronet, the member for Oakvalent among all classes and sects. The hampton, that revenue and property only drawback upon the feeling being should be considered as tests for Repreuniversal was, a wish that more Representation as well as population. Besides sentatives should have been allotted to

that county.

Mr. Sheil said, the sentiments of the people of Ireland generally could be gathered from the fact, that there was not one of their real Representatives who were opposed to the Bill. There could be no doubt there were many persons in Ireland opposed to the Bill, but they were persons having an interest in the borough system, and distinct interests from the people. To show how that system worked in Ireland, he might mention, that the present and the three preceding members for Dundalk were in no way whatever connected with that town, and that one of these Gentlemen had actually never seen it, and yet it deserved a better system of Representation attached to it, for the place contained 15,000 Catholic inhabitants, and had an annual export trade to the

the amount paid into the Exchequer, on account of Ireland, there must be considered the immense sum, at least 4,000,000l., sent anually to her absentee proprietors, which was chiefly spent in England, and in any fair measure of the allotment of Representatives, this sum must be taken into account. If that country was well governed, it might materially assist in contributing to the necessities of the whole kingdom; but its best energies were cramped by misgovernment, and it was too hard to hear the effects of that misgovernment alleged as a plea to deprive her of her rights.

Sir Francis Burdett said, that the talent, eloquence, and zeal of Members from Ireland in that House had often contributed to the success of the most useful measures. The cause of Reform especially was greatly indebted to some of