noble Lord admitted would be 47,250,000l. | sustain a further loss of 500,000l. a-year. The expenditure, however, the noble Lord Two of these alterations took place in the calculated in this way:-the noble Lord month of March last, and the other was took what had been expended and what to commence in February. With every might be expended, but not what Parlia- allowance for increase of consumption, he ment had voted. The noble Lord said, thought that the loss of income which "We have spent already up to October, be- would result from these alterations in the ing three quarters of the year, 35,221,6431.; present year, could not be calculated at for the remainder of the year, I will allow less than 900,000l.; and this, therefore, 11,534,5787.; so that our whole expendi- would have been so much surplus revenue ture will amount to 46,756,2211." But at this moment if the taxes had been rethis way of calculating could not be con- tained. But let their Lordships look at sidered satisfactory. The votes which had the next year. Then there would be, by been agreed to by Parliament amounted to the coal-tax, the cotton duties, and the 47,239,850.; the revenue was calculated candle-tax, more than 1,700,000l. taken at 47,250,000l.; and the surplus, there- from a revenue which already exceeded fore, of income over expenditure was, as the expenditure by no more than 10,000l. he had made it out, 10,1507., and not He was one of those who said, a long time 493,000l. as the Chancellor of the Exche- ago, that he thought the repeal of the quer, by his mode of calculating, repre- coal-tax a very proper measure, if it were sented it to be. He was quite sure, that proper to repeal any tax; but the noble their Lordships would at once see through Earl should recollect that he had told him the fallacy of this statement. It might be that the mode to supply the consumer with true that it would not be necessary to pro- cheap coals was, not to begin by repealing vide, during this year, for a greater outlay the tax, but by putting an end to the than had been stated by the Chancellor of abuses in the coal-trade. These abuses the Exchequer; but although a nation, were still in existence. What were the like an individual, might not be called consequences produced by the coalition upon to discharge within the year all the between the coal producer and the persons liabilities contracted by it during that year, engaged in bringing the article to market ? yet he must say, that both the nation and Why, that while 950,000l. was lost to the the individual ought, in calculating their revenue of the country, only 2s. a chaldron expenditure and receipts, to set the ex- were saved by the consumer; the remainpenditure and the receipts of each year ing 4s. going to the producer and conveyor against one another; and if the question of the coals, who, in addition to their was one of defraying yearly expenditure other large profits, had now got the greater by means of yearly receipts, to provide for part of the King's duty. Their Lordships the liabilities contracted in one year out of would now see that this was not the exact the receipts of the same year. He must way in which the finances of the country contend, therefore, that the Chancellor of ought to be regulated. And when their the Exchequer had introduced into the Lordships came to look at the consefinancial system of the country quite a quences of the repeal of this tax, and how new principle-a principle which in any little benefit it produced to the consumer, times but the present would not have been they would feel the truth of his observalistened to for a moment, even if any tions; certainly it wasmore desirable to have Chancellor of the Exchequer had brought a surplus of the revenue over the expendiit forward which he did not think would ture to meet contingencies, than that the have been likely in any other times than revenue should be diminished to the profit these. Having this prospect before them, of a few wealthy individuals. If other the present Ministers had thought proper circumstances rendered such a provision a also to propose a large reduction of taxa- matter of comparative indifference, still it tion. They had repealed the duties on was certainly more desirable to have the coals which produced to the revenue money lying in the Exchequer rather than 950,000l. a-year, they had made an altera- in the pockets of the producer or the pertion in the cotton duties, by which, as son by whom the coals were transported to he understood, the revenue would lose London or elsewhere. Their Lordships 300,000l. a-year more; and, besides these, would observe, that he had not said that they had made a prospective repeal of the he was averse to the repeal of this tax; candle duties, by which the revenue would | what he had stated was, that it was expe

dient, in repealing it, to give the
sumer, not the producer, the full benefit
of the measure, and that the repeal should
only take place when Government was
quite sure that the produce of the tax was
not essential to the King's revenue. He
made these observations because, looking
to the preceding year, he was convinced
that the revenue was tending to a state of
great confusion; and the noble Earl, in
case any accident should occur-in case of
anything unforeseen arising in the money-
market-something, for instance, with re-
spect to the funding of Exchequer-bills-
the noble Earl, he repeated, would find
himself in a position of the greatest pos-
sible embarrassment.

con-viduals to assist the various interests of
which the aggregate prosperity of the
nation was composed. The noble Duke
had entered into an exposition of the con-
dition of the public finances when he
vacated office, and he (Earl Grey) was
willing to give the noble Duke every .
credit for reductions, which he believed to
be his due. Including the four per cents,
the noble Duke laid claim to reductions
amounting to above 4,000,000l. He had
not the figures before him, but while he
was ready to give every credit to the noble
Duke, he did not know that he could ex-
actly subscribe to his statement; he rather
thought the amount would be found to be
something less. The noble Duke stated,
that the army and navy had been increased
since the present Ministers came into
office. True, they had been, and no man
more regretted the necessity of that aug-
mentation than he. The army had received
an addition of 7,000 men, and a large
naval force had been maintained-precau-
tions called for by the state of Europe.
But he believed the noble Duke had not
objected to these measures; nay, so far
from objecting, the noble Duke had, he
believed, blamed his Majesty's Govern-
ment that they had not armed to a greater
extent, to put themselves in a condition for
supporting the interests of the country.
The naval and military establishments had
undoubtedly been increased, owing to the
circumstances of Europe when the Minis-
ters came into office; the occasion that
demanded additional precautions origi-
nated in no fault of theirs it was their
duty to place the country in the position
the exigency required; and if he differed
from the noble Duke as to the amount of
force necessary, he had advised that in-
crease which he believed to be sufficient,
and additions might be made to it if found
to be necessary to support the honour of
the Crown and the interests of the country.
The noble Duke had stated that there was
last year a considerable surplus of revenue
over expenditure; and had entered into
calculations to show that for the current
year the surplus would amount to no more
than 10,000l. Now he (Earl Grey), after
making allowance for the loss sustained
by the repeal of the coal-tax, and every
other loss peculiar to the year, found that
the surplus would amount to at least
493,000l. Be it observed, that he was
speaking after three-fourths of the year
had elapsed-of three quarters there was

Earl Grey said, that as he had not been exactly aware of the nature and extent of the observations which he understood the noble Duke was to submit to the House; he must beg to apologize to their Lordships for not being so well prepared as he ought to be to answer the statements which the noble Duke had made, partly because he did not know how far the noble Duke intended to go, and partly because he was not very familiar with the details brought before the House. He would, however, explain to their Lordships in a few words his reasons for dissenting from the view of the financial state of the country taken by the noble Duke. With the first principle advanced by the noble Duke he entirely agreed. He was of opinion that it was both convenient and desirable that there should be a surplus revenue to meet any contingent expenditure; but when it was laid down that there was a necessity for a Sinking Fund-for anything raised by taxation to be applied to the reduction of the immense mass of debt-he was decidedly against all such plans of taxation; as he entertained the conviction, that to leave the money in the pockets of his Majesty's industrious subjects, agricultural, manufacturing, and commercial, was a much better means of meeting the burthens that pressed upon the empire, and much more likely to lighten them, than any expedient like the old one of a Sinking Fund. It might be prudent to apply to such a purpose what could be spared, after providing for foreseen and unforeseen expenses; but he did not think it proper to levy fresh taxes, or to continue old ones that pressed upon the industry of the country, for the purpose of diminishing the debt; it was wiser to leave these resources with indi

sumption of exciseable articles. It afforded good ground to hope that a judicious reduction of taxation would eventually benefit, rather than injure the revenue. He would next advert to what the noble Duke had said with respect to the repeal of the coal-tax. The noble Duke had admitted that it was not an improper tax to be repealed-it weighed very heavily upon the community, particularly on the lower orders; and, as some of their Lordships knew, with peculiar severity upon the people of the southern counties. The noble Duke said, they ought to take care that the people felt the benefit of the repeal, and that the amount of the duty did not go

absolute certainty; and the probable receipts and expenditure of the concluding quarter were ascertained almost to a certainty. The noble Duke objected to the mode adopted by his noble friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, of calculating the expenditure; but when so large a part of the year was elapsed, that was certainly preferable to relying on the estimate made at the beginning. He would explain his view of the income and expenditure he took the produce of the customs at 17,840,000l. before the taxes were repealed. The deficiency arising out of that repeal was 644,000l. for the three quarters elapsed; to that must be added 210,000l. for coal-duties, and 161,000l. for the re-into the pockets of the producers. To that duction on account of the taxes repealed in the quarter yet to come, leaving an amount of 16,825,000l. The Excise produced 18,640,000l. last year, but in consequence of the abolition of some duties and other contingencies, the estimated amount for this year, according to the proportion of the three quarters already elapsed was about 16,790,000l. He would next state the amount of taxes which had actually been remitted, premising that the duties upon beer, cider, and leather, had been taken off by the Government, of which the noble Duke had been the head.

The Duke of Wellington: The reduction in the Beer duty was 3,200,000l. not 2,350,0007.

Earl Grey: The statement he had made referred to the actual loss of the revenue by the repeal of the duty last year; the total amount of the taxes repealed was, therefore, 4,077,000l. The estimated produce of the Customs and Excise for the present year was 33,615,000l., which showed an apparent deficiency deficiency of 2,865,000l. as compared with last year; but when it was considered that taxes had been repealed to the amount of 1,112,000l. more than that sum, it was clear there had been an additional consumption making up part of the loss, and this was a proof of the wisdom of throwing off, as far as was possible, the fiscal restrictions on the con

sentiment he cordially subscribed. The
noble Duke further remarked, that it was
necessary to regulate the coal trade in
London. To that he also subscribed; and
a Bill for the express purpose had passed
that and the other House of Parliament,
and was now part of the law of the land.
He supposed this would satisfy the noble
Duke, and he trusted it would have a be-
neficial effect, and accomplish the end at
which it aimed. The noble Duke had
argued a little unfairly from circumstances
peculiar to the present year. He said, that
the reduction of the duty only benefitted
the consumer to the amount of 2s. a
chaldron, while the remaining 4s. went to
the producers. He thought this an unfair.
view, when he called to mind the circum-
stances which had hitherto prevented the
public from deriving the full advantage of
the change. When the repeal took place,
it had gone abroad that the community
could not have the full benefit of the mea-
sure in consequence of the coalition of
many of the pit-owners. The circulation
of that opinion produced a strike for higher
wages among the colliers. By their com-
bination and cessation of work, the trade
was stopped for he believed two months,
and so great was the consequent distress
for coals, even in the mining districts,
that to " carry coals to Newcastle" could
no longer be proverbially applied to illus-
trate the absurdity of sending an article
where it was not wanted. He had seen
letters from persons who supplied the
Newcastle steam-boats, declaring that the
vessels must lay in coals elsewhere, as they
could not undertake to furnish them.
had known instances of the old heaps of
small coal, that the noble Duke in visiting
the north might have seen lying at the

He

state of Europe had produced a general want of confidence: in the month of August the exchanges were against us, and there was a drain of bullion from the country. The difficulty resulting from the

mouth of pits; he had known instances of these being sold at the price of good coals. Under these circumstances, it could not be said that the good effects of the repeal of the tax had yet been felt. Combination was now happily at an end; and he anti-pressure had been rendered as little severe cipated, when the trade was proceeding in its usual way, that it would be found that Government had granted a very efficient measure of relief. [Some noble Lord observed, that it was already found to be so.] It appeared that it had already proved beneficial; but, at all events, if anything arose to prevent the public from deriving all the benefit that ought to result from the measure, Parliament was open to devise further means to accomplish the end in view. In order to show the fallacy of those calculations of the noble Duke, which had led him to state the probable surplus of the current year at only 10,000l., he would then enumerate the various items of receipt and expenditure. The revenue for the year they estimated in round numbers as follows:·-

Customs

Excise

Stamp duties

Taxes

Post-office
Miscellaneous

£16,750,000
16,800,000
6,850,000
5,000,000

1,500,000

350,000

as possible; the contraction of the circulation had operated as lightly as was possible. The country owed much to the management of the Bank of England-a body which exhibited great diligence and ability in the conduct of its own affairs and the affairs of the public, and now he trusted that matters had taken another and more auspicious turn. The exchanges were now in our favour, the bullion was coming back, and if they might put faith in appearances, they might, with the continuance of peace, entertain the hope of growing prosperity, and he was happy to state, there was now better grounds for indulging the expectation of peace than there had been for some time past. Their Lordships all knew the question which had kept them in continual alarm respecting a war on the continent-the dispute between Holland and Belgium. He was happy to be enabled to inform the House, that after thirteen months of difficult nevery gotiation, conducted by the Conference of London, composed of the representatives of the five great Powers-a negotiation characterized by the singular circumstance that no serious difference of opinion was That was the sum stated by the noble entertained by any one of the five great Duke, as stated by his noble friend in Powers engaged in them, had at length another place. The total expenditure of proposed terms of settlement equitable to the year, including the charge for the both parties. These terms, he trusted, National Debt, would amount, in round would be accepted by those interested in numbers, to 46,756,000l., leaving, after them, and remove all the difficulties which all deductions, a surplus of revenue over had hitherto retarded a settlement, and expenditure of 493,000l., instead of threatened to endanger the peace of Europe. 10,000l., as stated by the noble Duke. He He had stated that the settlement between could not see on what principle this state- Holland and Belgium, proposed by the ment could be denied, when the expendi- five Powers of the Conference, was founded ture of three quarters was before them. on equitable principles, and would briefly He believed he might have taken credit state what those principles were. From for a much larger sum; but from the cer- the moment when the re-union of Holland tain surplus he had shown to exist, the and Belgium became impossible (and the House, he felt assured, would be satisfied noble Duke opposite had admitted that it that the financial interests of the country was impossible), he (Lord Grey) felt that had not been neglected, and would forbear the only just principle on which a settleto entertain the apprehension that they ment could take place, was this:—that the were not in a condition to meet any emer- safety of Holland should be secured by a gency that was likely to arise. He confi- good defensive project, and that then all dently hoped and expected that in another the advantages that could fairly be given year further reductions would be practic- to Belgium should be secured to it, in able. This had been a year of great order to give her that character of indedifficulty and depression. The unsettled | pendence which it was desirable she should

£47,250,000