and he certainly was not disposed to impute either the motives he had heard assigned to Lord Brougham, or to interpret the conduct of the noble and learned Lord in the way it had been, as a difference in political sentiments was not, in his opinion, a sufficient excuse to attack the character of a man. Lord Brougham was a man of great talent; and supposing that he were not actuated by a desire to do good and serve his country, yet his high ambition would preserve him from the influence of such considerations as he was sorry to hear imputed to that noble Lord. He certainly did not agree in the political opinions of the noble and learned Lord in question, for he had had a chief part in framing a measure which, in his opinion, was an organ which would lead to other steps ending in the destruction of the Constitution of the country. He did not think that any man, under the circumstances in which Lord Brougham was placed, would be actuated by such motives, and still less did he entertain such an opinion of that noble and learned Lord. The House went into Committee-Mr. Bernal in the Chair.

man, but he would say, that the head of that man must be very thick, and his understanding very groggy, who could suppose that when he (Sir Charles Wetherell) alluded to political patronage, he was insinuating, that in the framing of this Bill any individual was actuated by the dirty motive of putting emolument into his own pocket. He thus thought that he had removed himself out of the unjust and uncandid atmosphere of the hon. member for Preston--an atmosphere which he did not wish to breathe. He had thus fairly met the hon. member for Preston, and hurled back his dirty insinuations. As to the retiring pension to the Chief Justice, he did not object to it; but would the House give retiring pensions to the Puisne Judges? Assuming, then, that a pension should be given to the Chief Justice, though not to the subordinate Judges, nor to the officers of the Court, he would beg leave to notice what had fallen from the hon. member for Colchester, who told the House that he was a fortnight waiting for an opportunity to deliver his sentiments upon this Bill, and now that it had been given, it did not enable the House to arrive at any very distinct or satisfactory result; for he had not touched any one of the con

On the clause being read, enacting, "that the said Judges, or any three of them, shall and may form a Court of Re-siderations which were of importance view, &c,'

in the decision of a question of this nature. The matter in dispute between the Members on this side of the House and the hon. Gentlemen opposite was, not the existence of the evils complained of, but the best mode of remedying those evils. The chief difference between them was, respecting the intermediate Court, or rather the construction of that Court; and upon that subject the worthy Alderman, who had already taken a part in these discussions, had said, that there were many defects which ought to be remedied; and so there were in this Act many defects which must be remedied before it could be rendered

Sir Charles Wetherell rose to defend himself from the attack which had been made on him by the hon. and learned member for Preston (Mr. John Wood). The hon. Member had thought proper to criticise his (Sir Charles Wetherell's) vocabulary, and had found particular fault with him because he had said, that the patronage granted by this Bill "stunk in his nostrils." Now when he used that phrase he had distinctly stated, that he would not have used so strong an expression, if Lord Brougham, when a Member of that House, had not given utterance to it. He still objected to the extent of patron-useful to the community, or in any respect age provided by this Bill. Not with respect to any pecuniary advantage that might accrue from it-nothing he had said had the most distant approximation to such a dirty, paltry, miserable idea; but because that patronage might be made the source of political influence. A more unfounded charge than that levelled at him by the hon. member for Preston never was advanced against any one. He wondered how such an idea could enter into, he would not say, the muddy head of any

promotive of the ends of justice. In the whole course of these discussions there was not one hon. Member who had not thought proper to make him a subject of animadversion-some had found fault with his arguments, others with his languageone objected to his vocabulary as vulgar, and others complained of his statements as exaggerated; but he consoled himself by the reflection, that he endured this in common with all those who had ever maintained the opinions of the minority,

notwithstanding all this, they gained ground every day. The hon. member for Buckinghamshire admitted that a good many alterations ought to be made, and the hon. member for London made a similar admission. If the principle of giving the retiring Judge a pension were confined to the Chief Justice, he should not object to it, but even in this case a matter so purely experimental ought not to be allowed to accumulate upon the public so enormous an expense. He had an amendment to propose to that clause under which the Court of Review was to be appointed; but he should, of course, postpone submitting that amendment to the consideration of the Committee, until they had arrived at that particular clause.

Clause agreed to.

Lord Chancellor on matters of law and equity, or on the refusal or admission of evidence only, &c."

It was not long since, owing to an accident | Notwithstanding all this, they proceeded which left him in that place almost alone, he had as many as six or seven speakers to reply to, supported as those speakers were by a host of cheerers. He was somewhat in the situation of his poor friend Lord Londonderry, who was pelted by half-a-dozen at a time. Being now in Committee, he was in a situation to meet his adversaries-adversaries upon whom he never turned his back, if they were ever so formidable, and the Ministerial cheers by which they were supported ever so loud. The importance he and his party attached to the creation of patronage which would take place under this Bill, had been made a subject of ridicule, in the House and elsewhere; but let it be recollected, that their objection to that patronage did not rest upon any probable use to be made of it by the present Lord Chan- The next clause enacted, "That all cellor, and, therefore, the answer that had such matters to be heard and determined been given to this argument met no one of in the said Court of Review shall be their objections. The answer which their brought on by way of petition, motion, adversaries gave was, that Lord Brougham or special case, according to the rules and had said, "With respect to the patronage, regulations to be established, as hereindo not let that be any obstacle; I am per-after provided, subject to an appeal to the fectly willing to give it up." But there were far other grounds upon which they opposed this Bill, and far other exceptions which they took to it, though the organs of Ministerial opinion were pleased to say that they urged these objections, not from conviction, or a sense of public duty, but from a desire to gain time till circumstances should prove more favourable to their views. They were, in fact, accused by the Press of speaking against time. Such was the miserable organ to which their opponents were compelled to have recourse an organ that would, whenever permitted, issue ukases as violent and as tyrannical as those which were obeyed upon the banks of the Volga or the Don; and for disregard of these ukases, they (the Opposition) were proscribed-they were told by this organ that they were guilty of a waste of time. The more this Bill was examined, and the more frequent and repeated the attempts were to expose its faults and imperfections, the more evident must it be to the independent Members of that House, that the present was not a factious opposition-notwithstanding his hon. and learned friend, the Attorney-General, seemed to say as much-and although he did so in the quaint and polite manner peculiar to him, still the accusation amounted to something of that sort.

Sir Charles Wetherell said, that this clause spoke of rules and regulations to be "hereafter established," by which matters to be heard and determined in this new Court should be brought on. He should be glad to know something of these rules and regulations. Here was a Bill going through the House in October, 1831, which was to come into effect in January, 1832, and yet the rules and regulations by which its proceeding were to be governed in certain cases were to be "hereafter established." Now, if he were to divide the Committee on this point, he should, no doubt, be assailed by the gipseyjargon of the day, and told that he was taking a factious part. The present Bill, he must say, was the most crude heap of non-existent legislation that he had ever seen.

Sir John Newport contended, that the Bill did contain that provision which the hon. and learned Gentleman complained of as having been omitted. If individuals would look carefully to the clauses of the Bill, they would not fall into such errors, and much time would, in consequence, be saved. In page 4, there was a clause which completely met the hon. and learned

The Solicitor General said, that the object of the clause was, to allow parties Mr. Godson said, it was evident that the to proceed by motion and by special case, hon. member for Bridport (Mr. Warbur as well as by petition. He was surprised ton) did not understand the appellate at the objection of his hon. and learned jurisdiction created by the Bill. The friend, because no one knew better than general objections to appeals did not his hon. and learned friend the inconve-apply to the appeal given by this Bill, for niences which resulted from the present jurisdiction.

Mr. Burge could only account for the speech of his hon. and learned friend, on the supposition that he presumed hon. Members on that side of the House were blind to the evils of the present system of Bankrupt Laws, and therefore conceived no remedy to be necessary. If his hon. friend thought so, he misconceived their opinions. They felt and admitted, that there were evils in the present system, but they did not consider the present Bill the proper remedy for those evils. He decidedly thought, that a part of the expensive system of the new Court was not required. With respect to the additional patronage that would accrue to the Lord Chancellor, he saw nothing whatever objectionable in it, provided it could be shown, that the Courts and officers in which it would originate were essential or necessary to the public interests. In answer to what his learned friend had stated as to the beneficial result of vivá voce examinations, he begged to refer to the Bill itself; the latter part of which left open the power of calling for affidavits as much as for oral testimony. In addition to these and other objections, he also thought, that the Judges' salaries were insufficient to lead eminent men to give up their practice and the prospect of advancement to other judicial appointments.

appeals as to the facts, and not as to law, introduced to each other for the first time and the enormous delay and expense of upon taking their seats in the Court, when such appeals were notorious. Appeals as to they would have to enter upon the immefacts were positively ruinous, but as to law diate discharge of their duties, without they were not attended with much expense, having had an opportunity of consulting and were decided speedily. The author- with each other and settling the rules by ities which the hon. Member (Mr. War-which the proceedings of that Court were burton) had quoted related to appeals as to be regulated. to facts. Sir Samuel Romilly was neither so unlearned nor so inexperienced as to be unaware of the distinction between these two classes of appeals; and it was to appeals as to facts, and to those appeals only, that Sir Samuel Romilly and the other authorities cited, referred. But the appeal given by this Bill was an appeal upon the law, not upon the facts of the case. No disputed fact was ever placed in a special case; special cases were usually contained in three brief-sheets: they involved matters of law only, and in the Courts in which he practised, not more than one counsel was usually heard on each side. Such would be the nature of the appeal to the Lord Chancellor under this Bill whereas the appeals under the existing system, stated all the facts and the disputes upon them, and not unfrequently occupied upwards of 1,000 briefsheets. He would venture to say, that the appeal given by this Bill was given in a more economical, a more speedy, and a more efficient manner than the ingenuity of man had ever before devised. Among all the objections which had been urged against this Bill, that which had surprised him most was, the objection of his hon. and learned friend (Sir Charles Wetherell), that the Judges to be appointed under it were to be appointed forthwith. Now if a Court were appointed for new purposes, there would be no great inconvenience, perhaps, in naming the Judges the very day before they were to enter upon the discharge of their duties, because business would come but slowly to such a Court, and the Judges would have time to make their rules as occasions for those rules presented themselves. The Bankruptcy Court, however, would take up every Commission in existence, and would be not only full, but more than full of busi-source of fear to commercial men, next to ness by the 11th of January, the day from which the Act was to take effect. When, he would ask, if the Judges were not to be appointed forthwith, were the rules for the Court to be made? If his hon. and learned friend's suggestion were to be attended to, the Judges would be

Mr. Paget said, that while he admired the able speech of the hon. and learned Member (Mr. Serjeant Wilde) he must, at the same time, say, that the terror felt by commercial men at the ruinous delay in the proceeding in bankruptcy would not be lessened by the present measure. Such would be the result of the additional appeals. For his part he could see no utility in appealing to the Chancellor, and much less to the House of Lords. As the

the delay and expense of the law, came its uncertainty, and this would be augmented by the number of Judges. If a single Judge had been appointed in the new Court as the ultimate Judge of Appeal, he should have deemed the measure a great benefit to the country. One Judge,

in his opinion, would be preferable to four | of long and complicated accounts; some -would have given more uniformity to regulation and provision for the due exthe law, and better satisfied suitors. After amination and settlement of such ought, thirty years' experience in business he had undoubtedly, to be made. found the expenses incidental to the present system so enormous, that he believed even this Bill, bad as it was, would be a great relief to the community. In these days, however, of improvement, he trusted that they would see a little more of the philosophy of law introduced into practical legislation.