Mr. Trevor had directed his observa- | the taxes, in the event of a new Administions to the general tendency of the adver-tration being formed. He considered that tisement, and not to one word of it, which, the noble Lord (the Chancellor of the Exof course, he must have seen was a mis-chequer) had addressed that meeting in a print. The part of the advertisement he ob- proper manner, by pointing out to them jected to, was that which said that as the the impropriety of the course they had success of the measure was no longer adopted. It was absolutely necessary, for doubtful,' the parishioners were recom-the preservation of the institutions of the mended not to withhold the payment of the rates, as if they would have been justified in doing so had the measure not been likely to be successful.

Sir John Hobhouse said, that if the advertisement went to recommend the people not to refuse the payment of taxes, he hardly knew what the hon. Member had to complain of. The meeting was, in fact, convened for that purpose; and there presided at it a gentleman named Maule, of high professional character and ability, who had taken that means in order to divert the parishioners from adopting the other course, of which he had heard rumours. That gentleman had a great deal to lose, instead of to gain, by the adoption of any unconstitutional measures. He must beg further to state to the House, that Mr. Maule had written a letter to his fellow parishioners, containing an opinion opposed to the proposition for refusing the payment of rates, a proposition which the writer described as silly and dangerous.

Mr. James E. Gordon was glad to hear the explanation, for he had seconded the Motion from supposing that it rested on the ground that certain persons had entered into a combination to refuse the parochial rates.

country, that the payment of taxes should be enforced. He thought the case brought before the House called for no interference on the part of Parliament: the law was quite sufficient to put a stop to those proceedings of which the hon. Member (Mr. Trevor) complained.

Mr. George Robinson was surprised that the House should have their time occupied by such a subject. The mecting referred to in the advertisement did nothing, and yet the hon. Member now called on the House for a Resolution as to the object of a meeting, after that meeting had been indefinitely postponed, and he asked the House to declare that that which might have been proposed, had the meeting not been postponed, was calculated to intimidate Members of that House from doing their duty. He, therefore, hoped the hon. Member who had brought the matter forward, would see the necessity of withdrawing his Motion forthwith.

Mr. Hunt said, that this refusal to pay taxes had been recommended by a portion of the public Press, and sanctioned by the hon. member for Middlesex. He had no doubt of its illegality. A man might refuse to pay the taxes, and allow his goods to be distrained; but that was not the question. The question was, whether it was lawful for 150,000 persons to conspire together to refuse the payment of taxes. But the matter did not stop there. Threats had been employed to prevent auctioneers from

Mr. Cutlar Fergusson said, that if a resolution was passed at any meeting recommending the non-payment of taxes, there was no lawyer who would not pronounce that resolution illegal. Though there was nothing unlawful in a man re-selling distrained goods; and an auctioneer fusing to pay taxes because he had not in Bath had been obliged, in consequence the wherewithal, yet it was a very differ- of intimidation, to issue a handbill, in ent matter when persons, situated as the which he gave public notice, that he would hon. member for Middlesex, who had a not receive for sale any goods distrained house in Bryanstone-square, and was well for the non-payment of King's Taxes. able to pay the taxes, entered into an He would now show the House what sort agreement to withhold payment. He had of creature a Whig was; for this refusal no hesitation in saying, that the refusal to to pay taxes was a Whig measure. pay taxes to the state was a high misde- was the measure of the friends of the meanour; it was a most dangerous pro- Bill; the Radicals had nothing to do with ceeding, totally subversive of the law, and it. He had had a letter put into his if persevered in, might be the means of the hands, to which a forged signature of his entire dissolution of society. He under-name had been affixed. The letter was stood that a meeting in the country had addressed to his printer, and was drawn come to the resolution of refusing to pay up in these terms:

It

"Englishmen, rouse yourelves! Pay no rates nor taxes, until you get the Reform Bill." This forging of his name by the Whigs, in order to recommend to the people the non-payment of taxes, was, he considered, carrying the joke too far. He thought that the hon. member for Kirkcudbright had given Ministers as severe a drubbing as ever they had in their lives. The hon. Member had declared that the Birmingham meeting had been guilty of a high misdemeanour; and yet, two noble Lords opposite, Ministers of the Crown, had corresponded with that meeting, without expressing disapprobation at their conduct. Mr. Cutlar Fergusson disclaimed having thrown any imputation on the two noble Lords to whom the hon. member for Preston had alluded; on the contrary, he had applauded them for having expressed their disapprobation of the doctrine adopted by the Birmingham meeting.

Mr. Hunt did not recollect that the noble Lords had expressed any disapprobation of that doctrine in the letters which they sent to Birmingham.

He would advise them to disconnect themselves from those who, he believed, were against all government, and to try honestly to allay excitement. He could assure them, on his honour, that if they brought

If he

forward a measure of Reform which he did not think destructive of the Constitution, he would be most anxious to vote for it. He had, on former occasions, expressed a strong opinion against the right hon. Gentlemen: he retracted not one word; but, at this moment, they must not look back; they ought to look at circumstances as they stood, and to the future. really believed that the line of conduct pursued by the right hon. Gentlemen was calculated to alleviate evils which at present existed, he would cross the House and support them, if he did so alone. He implored them to look seriously to the state of things, to weigh their words carefully, and to remember, that though it was their duty to improve the institutions of the country, it was also their sacred duty, as Ministers of the Crown, to defend them as long as they existed. It was a dereliction of their duty to hold up the institutions of the country to disrespect, and he exceedingly regretted that the noble Lord opposite had thought proper Lord Valletort said, that the letters of to call the majority of the House of Lords the noble Lords opposite, being addressed" the whisper of a faction." They had to the chairman of a meeting which had adopted an illegal resolution, so far from discountenancing had rather sanctioned that doctrine. He certainly could not participate in the declarations which had been made from that (the Opposition) side, that Ministers were not sincere in their desire to put down disorder. His belief was, that the right hon. Gentlemen would, if they could, put down riotous proceedings; but their language and acts excited that feeling which created riots. There was, however, one excuse for their conduct. They had been so long in opposition, that the abuse of the institutions of the country had become almost habitual to them. The abuse of those institutions, however, proceeding from them when in opposition, was trivial, but it assumed a more serious complexion when it came, particularly at such a moment as the present, from the confidential advisers of the Crown. He implored the right hon. Gentlemen opposite to recollect, that a single incautious word falling from men in their situations might be productive of consequences the most pernicious to the State.

heard a great deal of that majority; they had been told that the decision in the House of Lords had been come to by interested persons, and by the bench of Bishops, who were not fit to form any opinion on the subject. Now he believed it would be found, that if all the Peers who were proprietors of boroughs, and all the Bishops, were excluded from the calculation, a majority of the House of Lords was against the Bill. It was a great deal too hard, therefore, to have it stated that the Bill was thrown out of the House of Lords by those who had a personal interest in getting it rejected. He believed that those noble Lords who possessed property in boroughs were not guided in their decision by improper motives. It was a libel on the English peerage to say, that they had not manliness to resist such influence. He did implore Ministers to consider whether it would not be better to bring forward a measure of Reform less efficient than the last one, than to run the risk of the consequence which would probably follow the second rejection of the Bill by the Lords. Questions of this kind

ought always to be regarded as a balance | the people of Ireland had, in that manner, of evils; and if, by diminishing the violent beaten their oppressors, without a single character of the measure, they could con- assault, without breaking a pane of glass; ciliate the party opposed to them, he and in spite of the interested opposition thought they would only be performing and strong party spirit, that would have their duty in doing so. forced them into such measures they kept the peace, if they did not keep their tempers. The people of England were perfectly competent to follow that example. He hoped they would not violate the law. He was not surprised that they had shown some degree of warmth at their

Mr. O'Connell said, it was as unfounded a charge as ever was made, to assert that it was the intention of the Ministers to induce the people to refuse to pay taxes. It was not the act of the Reformers-it was the act of the Anti-reformers. It was their vexatious opposition to the Bill-disappointment. What had been the natheir opposition to the spirit of the people, ture of the discussions on the Bill? Why, by delay, by frivolous pretexts, by motions every part of the Bill but that which was made every hour, every day, and every at the moment before the House had been month, for the purposes of delay. Did the subject of remark and protracted dethey think that the people would bear this bate. Three months had been spent in for ever? They had endured the delay that manner. The opposite party had had most patiently, from the certainty, as they their triumph of delay, but it was only a hoped, that the measure would be suc- triumph of delay, for the King's Governcessful after some delay, and now that ment could bring in the Bill again, and hope was at an end, by the foolish and the Anti-reformers would not have the absurd rejection of this popular measure. power to reject it. They had indulged These were the causes of the popular ex- their self-flattery-they had said, that the citement. Hon. Members talked of the people did not care for the Bill, and that institutions of the country. Were the the Bill was destructive to the Constiturotten boroughs the institutions of the tion; and they had repeated these things country? Were the nominations of Peers usque ad nauseam. They talked now to places in that House the institutions of this recommendation not to pay taxes of the country? The people in general amounting to treason. He would tell looked upon these things as a corruption them that, if this measure was carried, any that must be remedied, and yet it was man might be left to talk high treason as on behalf of such abominations that he pleased, for the people of England hon. Gentlemen called on the Govern- would totally disregard it: but, until it ment to suspend the measure; that what was carried, it would be in vain to atthe people endured so long, they might tempt to strangle their cries of indignation. endure yet longer? He, on the contrary, The people ought to keep within legal called upon the Ministers steadily to purbounds. The success of the great measue their course, and to cut away the gan- sure depended on the people-on their grene that preyed on the vitals of the keeping their acts and expressions withState with a firm hand. He trusted, that in the channels of the law, and on the people would soon obtain what they their not having recourse to any viodeserved a full Representation in that lence whatever. Feeling this, and seeHouse. The English nation had often ing how utterly improper was the introbeen compared to the lion; and if duction of this debate at this moment, he hon. Members thought that Englishmen hoped the Ministers would not condescend were totally regardless of the manner in to give any further answer respecting the which their most earnest wishes were re-letter than that which they had given last jected, they would find themselves mis- night. Who was to dispute whether it taken-they would find the truth of that was the whisper of a faction that had reexpression which they had heard so often:jected the Bill? If the people were for the "ira Leonum vincula recusantium." He warned them not to put matters to such an extremity. He earnestly hoped, that the people would be peaceable; their opponents must be beaten by that mode of conduct; the people must and could carry the measure, without violating the law:

Third

VOL. VIII. {s}

Bill, the whisper of a faction must be on the other side-there could not be a faction on both sides-the faction must be on one or the other; and if it was disputed that the people were in favour of the Bill, his answer was, that that question would be very shortly settled.

2 A

. Sir Charles Wetherell said, he happened to be absent from the House when his name was called, and he wished then to know, whether he might not bring his motion by way of amendment, or in some other manner, at the present moment. It should be observed, that his notice stood on the paper before that of the hon. Gentleman whose motion was now before the House.

Mr. George Robinson: Then, I say that, in point of order, the hon. and learned Gentleman is not applying himself to the subject before the House.

He

Sir Charles Wetherell continued. had heard of a man coming forward with a hand and a glove-but, in the attack of the hon. Member, he could see neither hand nor glove. That was very strange, as the hon. Member represented Worcester, the great manufactory of gloves. But to return to what had been said by the hon. and learned member for Kerry. He would ask the hon. and learned Member, whether the British lion he had al

The Speaker said, the regular mode was, to bring forward the different notices in succession, until all were disposed of; and unless that practice were adhered to, the paper, it must be obvious, would be of no use at all. The hon. and learned Gentle-luded to was the infuriated rabble who had man had asked whether he could not introduce his motion, or a discussion relative to that motion, on the consideration of the question before the House. That must depend on the fact whether the hon, and learned Gentleman's observations had reference to the motion now before the House, because, if a different course were taken, it would defeat the right of precedence, which belonged to the hon. member for Durham.

Sir Charles Wetherell rather thought that he had an opportunity of bringing before the House the subject matter to which his motion referred, without trespassing on the rule which the Speaker had laid down. As he was strictissimus juris, he felt anxious not to interfere with any rule by which the right of another might be affected. He would therefore proceed, notwithstanding the sardonic smiles and satirical gestures of Gentlemen on the other side of the House, to declare his opinion with reference to the subject to which his notice of motion referred. The hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) had allowed sentiments to fall from him which could not be heard but with feelings of indignation: and

Mr. George Robinson rose to order. He wished to know whether the hon, and learned Gentleman was not bound, before he entered into a discussion, to show in what mode he meant to bring forward his motion, so as not to infringe on the rule laid down by the Speaker.

The Speaker said, the hon. and learned Gentleman was bound, after what he had stated, to introduce his observations in a manner consistent with the orders of the House; but he was not bound to state to the hon. Gentleman how he meant to effect that object.

So

attempted to drag from his carriage, and had
in fact seriously ill-treated, a noble and gal-
lant Peer? He would appeal to English
Members on this point. He would ask them
whether such a proceeding as this indica-
ted the presence of the British lion? The
hon. and learned Member was the only
Irish Member who seemed to contemplate
a ferocious attack on an Irish nobleman as a
proof of the prowess of the British lion.
He supposed that the hon. and learned
Member considered that the British lion
was merely shaking the dews from his
mane, when a highly-excited mob treated
a nobleman in this ignominious manner.
Every one except the hon. and learned
Meniber, deprecated and deplored the cir-
cumstance to which he had alluded.
far as he had observed, it certainly was
not characteristic of an Irishman to be a
coward, it certainly was no part of the
general conduct of an Irishman to attack
an individual who could not defend him-
self; it certainly was no part of an Irish-
man's well known gallantry, when a noble
Lord was attacked, to mix himself up with
the cowards and dastards who perpetrated
that attack, and then to speak of the mag-
nanimity of the British lion. He con-
ceived that many of those who placed them-
selves on that (the Opposition) side of the
House-and the hon. and learned member
for Kerry amongst the number—might,
with great propriety, place themselves
on the Ministerial benches. The cor-
poreal frames of these hon. Members which
he and his hon. friends did not want, were
placed near them, while their metaphysical
part, their mental part, transported itself to
the other side of the Table. He wished that
these Gentlemen would take refuge among
the Radicals and Liberals, instead of giving
interruption to those who sat on the Op-

position side of the House. Not only did they came was to support the non-payment those Gentlemen proceed in the most in- of taxes. ["No, no," from Lord Althorp.] convenient manner, but certainly they did The noble Lord cried "No, no." Now he said not act according to the usages of Parlia- that the statement was in the newspaper, ment, as practised in the better, and he and the noble Lord's letter was also in the would add, the gentlemanly times of the newspapers. The resolutions were printed, House of Commons. In his earlier days, and the letters of the noble Lord and his noble neither the hon. member for Kerry, nor colleague were printed. This being the case, the hon. member for Worcester, would it was for the House to decide on what the have taken their places where they now sat. effect of those resolutions, and of those letIn the present day he knew not whether ters, was likely to be. Ministers might say liberality might not have made very great that, if it were deemed fitting, they, or advances, but with respect to gentility, he their legal advisers, would take proper was confident that they had retrograded notice of the outrages which had been considerably. He now came to that part committed; but as yet he had not heard of his address in which he would prove that they had taken any steps in the matthat his notice of motion was intimately ter. They were all acquainted with the connected with the proposition then be- destruction of the house (not the family seat) fore the House. There were now abroad of the Duke of Newcastle. Formerly it was two subjects-subjects of great public ex- the family seat of that noble man, but it had citement, which demanded and deserved long ceased to be so. To what were they to particular attention. One of these was a attribute the burning of that property? treasonable conspiracy to prevent the pay-It could be traced to no other cause but ment of taxes--a treasonable conspiracy, that the Duke of Newcastle was an oppohe repeated, with the abettors of which nent of the Reform Bill. The hon. member two Members of his Majesty's Government for Middlesex treated this conflagration as had thought fit to correspond. He would a mere trifle. That hon. Member was an not here introduce the subject of yester-economical man. He was quite happy wher day's discussion, but merely allude to the foundation of it. Another subject, connected with public excitement, must also attract their attention-namely, that of an - attack on the persons and property of all those Members of the House of Peers who constituted the majority against the Reform Bill. Of that system of attack they had already heard, and his motion would go to a specific point connected with that system-he meant the attack on the property of the Duke of Newcastle. The hon. member for Middlesex had advocated, and strongly too, the principle that a resolution might legally be agreed to, having for its object the refusal to pay taxes. He would, however, take the liberty of saying, that such a resolution, proposed in any place, would be illegal; and if connected with a general purpose (and he stated the law in the presence of the mute Attorney General) would become a most serious of fence. The passing such a resolution at all was a misdemeanour; and if matured, so as to have a general purpose in view, it became high treason. These were the two propositions which he called on the mute Attorney General of the Cabinet to get up and answer. It seemed that there had been at Birmingham a meeting of 150,000 persons, and one of the resolutions to which

items of 24d. or 1d. were the subject of his consideration. On a late occasion, he advised the first Lord of the Admiralty to feed our seamen on bad biscuit and sour pork, because Id. might be saved per lb. but now he carried his economy much further. He said that the Duke of Newcastle's mansion, which had been burned down, was not worth much-it was only a lodging-house; thus carrying economy even to the crime of arson-thus adapting economy even to the offence of destroying property by fire. The hon. Member would, no doubt, contend that a considerable saving had been effected because Clumberhall, the country residence of the Duke of Newcastle had not been consumed. Now, what he wished was, that a Special Commission should be issued to try the offenders. He knew not whether the hon. and learned member for Nottingham had had all the facts detailed to him, but he understood that the demolition of the house belonging to the Duke of Newcastle took place under circumstances which left no doubt that these practices were directed against him personally, and against his property, on account of his conduct with respect to the Reform Bill. [The Attorney General: Not personally.] Those practices could not, of course, be