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introduced into Scotland, so as to givetion of the established form of Churchthe counties there a national system of government had been settled. The clergy popular Representation, founded, unlike had, ever since the Reformation, on the the Representation proposed to be intro- whole, done their duties admirably, and by duced by the Bill now before them, really forming a connecting link between the upon property, and to open the franchise highest and the humblest classes, they in the close boroughs in Scotland to the had strengthened all the ties of society. inhabitants generally of such places. He The parish schools had also been most was anxious to state his sentiments on efficient in diffusing the blessings of eduthis point, that they should not be mis- cation. What had been the result of all understood by his countrymen.

this? The knowledge diffused among the The Earl of Camperdown was glad people made them see clearly the faults of that the noble Earl had made this conces- their system, and, therefore, they felt more sion. It was true that he had before ad intensely than the inhabitants of any mitted the necessity for some concession; other part of the empire the necessity for but he had never before made the admis- Reform. The old system might have sion in such distinct, strong, and direct been good for the tine; but was totally terms. One thing was certain, that the unsuited to existing circumstances. He people of Scotland made no distinction thought it his duty to make these few rebetween their own Reform and the Bill marks on the observations of the noble now before their Lordships. They un- Duke with respect to Scotland. derstood perfectly that the fate of this Bill The Duke of Wellington considered it would decide the question of Reform as was quite irregular to allude, on the preto them; and therefore, if this Bill should sentation of a petition, to what he said be rejected, the rejection would be re- in the course of a debate on a former ceived by them with alarm and dismay; evening, which was to be resumed this and the noble Earl might be well assured night, and when any noble Lord would that they would look more to that rejec- have the more regular opportunity of retion than to his declarations, and would plying to what had fallen from him. be filled with alarm and dread that the However, as the noble Lord had spoken present system would in substance be of that part of his observation which apcontinued. When the Bill of Reform for plied to Scotland, he would beg leave to Scotland came to that House-if ever it inform him, that what he said was, that should come there he would be ready Scotland was the most prosperous part of to meet his noble friend on the subject of his Majesty's dominions, and a country its details. The noble Duke (Wellington) exceedingly well governed. He did not opposite had, on a former night, adverted to advert at all to the state of its Representthe state of Scotland, and had truly said ation, as it had been under the Governthat it was in a most flourishing condition; ment of his Majesty, in common with but if the noble Duke meant to say that the other parts of the United Kingdom, this was owing to the state of the Repre- and of the King's dominions, and under sentation in Scotland, that position would the protection of the Parliament, the lead to the extreme point, that the best Lords and Commons of Great Britain. Government was that where there was no No doubt it had advanced in prosperity Representation at all. While Scotland in a greater degree than almost any part remained a separate kingdom, it was well of the United Kingdom, but though he known in what a wretched condition it had stated that, he had taken care to was under its own system. But when it avoid giving an opinion about its Reprebecame united with England, it acquired sentation, or whether there should be a the benefit of the English Representation, Reform in Scotland or not. He had adwhich, with all its faults was far superior mitted, that when the subject of Repreto that of Scotland. However unfavour- sentation was under consideration, that of able the terms of the Union might have Scotland must be included as a part of been to the people of Scotland, they un- the whole empire, but he made no admisquestionably gained an immense advantage sions for Scotland to the exclusion of any in the English Representation. Before the other part of Great Britain. · Union, Scotland was distracted with reli- Lord Belhaven begeed to remind their gious parties. But after the Revolution, Lordships, that the petitioners did not pray and about the time of the Union, the questheir Lordships to pass the Scotch Reform Bill, as that was not now before them. I petition and the circumstances connected But as to Representation, Scotland had with it, they would find that there were no no Representation at all. It was mere grounds for asserting, that there had not nomination. His noble friend (the Earl been a considerable degree of reaction and of Haddington) had said, that he was difference of opinion in the public mind anxious to have an elective franchise respecting the Reform Bill since the disfounded on property, and not such a solution of the late Parliament, and even franchise as it was proposed to establish since the opening of the present. The by this Bill. Well, then, his noble friend petition he held in his hand had not ought to vote for the second reading of been agreed to at a meeting assembled the Bill, and endeavour to amend it; and for the purpose of voting it, but, on the then, if his noble friend could prove to him contrary, it was assembled to vote a petithat the system proposed by this Bill was tion favourable to the Bill. A noble not founded on property, he would not Marquis, to whom a great part of the vote for its passing in its present state. town of Belfast belonged (the Marquis of

The Earl of Haddington had spoken of Donegal), and a noble Earl, the predecesthe Scotch ill, and not of this.

sor of a noble Duke in the office of PostLord Belhaven : well, then, if his noble master-General (Earl O'Neill), were the friend could prove that the system pro- dispensers of wealth and favour in that posed to be established by the Scotch Bill place. It happened that these noble was not founded on property, he would Lords, up to a late period, always pronot vote for it.

fessed the sentiments of Orangeism, and The Earl of Rosebery wished to take their influence tended to keep down the that opportunity, as being the earliest free, liberal, and independent opinions of which had presented itself, of corroborat- the town of Belfast. Changes, however, ing the opinion of the noble Lord near unfortunately would at times come over him, that any prosperity which had fallen the best of characters, and over these noble to Scotland might fairly be ascribed to Lords had passed a very rapid change other causes than the state of its Repre- indeed, for he believed that they ranged sentation. It might be most justly as- on the side of the late Government when serted, that it had reached its present pitch Toryism predominated. They had now, of prosperity, not in consequence of its he believed, become converts to other Representative system, but in spite of it. doctrines, and ranged on that which was If any proof of that assertion were requi- called the liberal side of the question, and, site, it might be selected from the fact, as was natural under such circumstances, established in the pages of its history, that they endeavoured, as far as was possible, so long as its inhabitants were living exclu- to collect a numerous meeting, with the sively under the form of Representation view of getting up a petition in favour of which they now joined in condemning, the Reform Bill." What, he would ask, no country in Europe exhibited greater had been the result of the meeting sumwretchedness or more intolerable mis- moned by the sovereign of Belfast, a near government than Scotland. If it had relation of the noble Marquis, who had subsequently increased in knowledge and also changed his sentiments on the meawealth-if it had of late years greatly accu- sure? That gentleman came provided mulated the elements of social happiness with all the power his situation afforded, -it was only because of the union of its and the meeting assembled in the great political destinies with England, a land to square of the town. Well, what did the which nature had been more bountiful, inhabitants of that notorious, Radical and and which had the fortune to be blessed democratical town? What was the result with more liberal institutions.

of the requisition, numerously signed, reThe Marquis of Londonderry rose to questing a public meeting to vote a pelay before their Lordships a petition tition in favour of the Reform Bill? He against the Ministerial measure of Reform, would inform their Lordships of what but in favour of some more safe and expe- had occurred, as reported in one of the dient plan, from certain of the Gentry, local journals. The noble Marquis proClergy, Merchants, Bankers, and Resi-ceeded to read a Belfast

wbich dents of the town of Belfast and its neigh-stated, that the mass of persons at the bourhood. The noble Marquis begged to meeting had answered the interrogatories state, that when their Lordships heard the of the Chief Magistrate's speech as to the


done so.

duty of Lords and Commons with respect, subscribed to the petition presented by to the Reform Bill, by clamorously de. the noble Marquis. claring, that the former would throw it The Marquis of Londonderry was conout, and, that the latter ought to have vinced, that the petition he presented con

Noble Lords, continued the tained the true sentiments of the town of Marquis, would see, from what he had Belfast on the subject of Reform. He read, that there was a strong feeling of admitted that the people were in favour dissent abroad with regard to that descrip- of Reform ; but there was a great differtion of Reform proposed by Ministers.ence between a Reform and that contained The petition he had the honour to present in the present Bill. He did not mean to prayed for moderate Reform. It further throw the slightest reflection on the relative intimated, that there was a strong body of the noble Lord; but he had stated the of the community in favour of such Re- circumstances he did, to show that, though form ; but while it stated that, it also the noble Lords he alluded to at one time advanced the most emphatic reasons of endeavoured to keep down the liberal opposition, point by point, to that most feeling, they were at present doing all they Revolutionary Bill. The petition was could to excite it in favour of the Bill. then read by the clerk, and the noble Being on his legs, he begged leave to say, Marquis observed that, after hearing these that he had received a letter from Bristol, sentiments, noble Lords were not to assert, informing him that the communication he that there bad been no reaction with re- had received from thence, and read to the spect to the measure before the House. House when an illustrious Duke presented

The Earl of Gosford had not been in a petition in favour of Reform, was written the House during the speech of the noble under a misrepresentation, and that its Marquis ; but he had heard the petition, assertions were unfounded. He felt it to and felt called upon to express his senti- be his duty at the time to read the comments on the subject to which it referred. munication to the House, but he felt He had the best opportunity of becoming eqnal readiness now to admit that he was acquainted with the state of public feeling misinformed. in Belfast; and he knew, beyond the The Duke of Sussex felt satisfied, that shadow of a doubt, that the wealth and whatever statement the noble Marquis had respectability of that town were decidedly made was derived from some individual in and unequivocally in favour of the measure whose accuracy he had confided. of Reform.

The Earl of Eldon begged leave to say Lord Templemore begged pardon for a few words before they went into a debate intruding on the House, but after the re- upon the Reform Bill. He must state, marks that were made on a near relative that one principal reason he had for not of his, who owned the chief part of the going into the measure was, that they property of the town of Belfast, he must were called upon to decide as to England, say, that it would have been more consis- without knowing what was to be done with tent if the noble Marquis opposite bad Ireland and Scotland, for no man could given some notice of his intention to al- deny, that a change in the Representation lude to his noble relative.

of England must have a greai effect upon The Marquis of Londonderry said, he the other portions of the empire, inasmuch had written to him that morning. as the Peers and Representatives of the

Lord Templemore thought, that the three kingdoms were now combined in noble Marquis was bound not to make one united Parliament. On this question, those statements in the absence of the therefore, he wished to observe, they ought person whom he thought proper to arraign; not to come to a hasty conclusion with one but he would leave the character of his part, without knowing how it would affect noble relative in the hands of the House, the whole question; he regretted, therefore, as he felt that his political conduet needed that their time should be consumed by no defence from him. He could further arguments relating to the Scotch and Irish say, from some knowledge of the town of Bills, laken separately. They had matter Belfast, that the sentiments of the majority enough regularly before them, and it was of its inhabitants were in favour of the not wise for them to enter into arguments Bill, though, at the same time, he begged upon questions upon which, constituit to be understood, that he did not throw tionally speaking, they were uninformed. any imputation on the names that were Petition to lie on the Table. VOL. VIII. {Third


PARLIAMENTARY Reform-BILL for | Then he was convinced, however, that all ENGLAND SECOND READING - AD. things in this world must change ; for inJOURNED DEBATE FOURTH DAY.] stance, we must all grow old. Now he The Earl of Falmouth was well awareof (Lord Falmouth) would not contradict the disadvantages under which he rose that, but he hoped their Lordships were to address the House, after the excellent not to be put in another schedule A, and speeches of other noble Lords who had utterly annihilated, merely because they preceded him, but he was anxious to record might be growing old. Then the noble his opinion upon a subject of such unpre- Earl said, the Radicals would be satisfied, cedented moment. He felt a due respect but in the next breath he told the House, for the talents of those who had followed Mr. Hunt would not be satisfied. If he the noble Earl at the head of the Trea- had seen the noble Earl in his place, he sury, in supporting the Bill; but he did should like to have asked himn whether he not think they had added anything which himself was satisfied; for he had said, ought to induce such an assemblage as he when the Bill was first brought forward, wasaddressing, to let it go to a second read. “I am a Radical, and nothing but the Vote ing. A noble Viscount (Melbourne) seein- by Ballot will satisfy ine.” He would tell ed to confess, that the difficulty in the the House why the noble Earl would not be way of finding seats for members of the satisfied. The noble Earl had written a letter, Government was, under such a Bill, in. not long ago, to a Mr.Whittle at Manchessuperable, for he talked of a supplement- ter, which he held in his hand as printed in ary measure as the remedy; and here was Cobbett's Register. In that letter he said, one of the proofs given by the Govern- that he approved of every thing Mr. Cobment itself, that it would be final! Then bett had ever declared upon the subject, a noble Marquis (Lansdown), to whom he and that he had intended to have brought had often listened with admiration and him into Parliament for Downton ; that instruction, had avoided, with superior borough of which the noble Earl said, skill, the real point at issue-namely, whe- that he himself was the constituent unit, ther anything like such a change was war- and where he had a part of a ditch that ranted by experience or example. He gave a vote. Did he then mean to comhad told its opponents, indeed, that they pliment his friend by making him the Rehad adopted the principle of Reform, and presentative of a ditch? But Mr. Cobbett, that their supposed projects were mere unfortunately for the noble Earl, bad quackeries; but he had given no author- addressed the people of Manchester in ity, from the past or the present, in favour print. The noble Earl entirely approved of the Bill, and he had not shown, that bis of Mr. Cobbett. How far Mr. Cobbett own panacea would cure the alleged evils. was satisfied might be seen by that adAnother noble Viscount (Goderich) fol-dress. The noble Earl advocated the lowed, but he, too, in what might be very Ballot, yet the noble Earl assured them, good merely as a speech, had made a that both himself and the Radicals were similar failure, and had been becomingly satisfied with this Bill, which, with all its answered by a reference from his noble radicalism, had not gone quite so far as the friend (Lord Haddington) to the recorded Vote by Ballot. He could only look opinions of their joint leader, Mr. Can- upon the noble Earl's speech as one of proning. And then came the noble Earl pitiation towards his noble leader, who some (Radnor), who had closed the debate of weeks ago had given him a pretty severe the former evening. Having listened to lecture, when he distinctly said, he was his remarks attentively, he really could not dissatisfied, and could not be otherwise believe they had any other object than to without the Vote by Ballot. With regard keep the House in good humour, and re- to the speech of the noble Earl at the lieve the tædium of Debate, for they ap- | head of the Government, he had heard it peared to him to quarrel with each other with astonishment and regret, as containirreconcileably, though the confusion that ing all that could be urged in favour of prevailed in a part of them, between the the violent and dangerous measure, for moral and the physical, certainly made it which he had confessed that, he more somewhat difficult to remember and reply than any other man, was responsible. He to them. First, he disliked all changes, never heard a more striking illustration of but this dislike led him to advocate the the difference between an oratorical effort, most sweeping changes ever proposed. I and that sound reasoning which it ought to contain That younger politicians,' of rational men, by asserting that this Billis, unused to power, should think them for the preservation of a system composed selves qualified, when suddenly thrown of King, Lords, and Commons. America, into office, to write down old Constitutions, the darling example of the demagogues, and create new ones, or that those who had had a Republic about as old as the noble at once consented to abandon the princi- Earl's (Grey) political life. They had in ples of the deceased leader, towards whom England a Monarchy in its present form They had professed an almost filial affec- (dating from 1688), about three times as old. tion—that these politicians should rush He would say, choose between them if you into mere experiments, even upon the most please, but as to the anomalies that are so vital subjects, might not be very surprising; objectionable, recollect, America has also but, although he bad searched in vain in her anomalies. In the American Consti. the mass of debates elsewhere for a single tution, before any change could be even statesmanlike argument to recommend proposed, the assent of two-thirds of both them, he had to the last been unable to Houses of Congress must be obtained, and persuade himself that the noble Earl too, afterwards it could not be adopted withscholar as he was, historian as he was out the concurrence of three-fourths of the kuown to be, would not be able to point federal States. Here, then, was a conserout a single example, ancient or modern, vative principle in a pure democracy. The of such a constitution as the Bill, if passed, framers of the American Constitution would engender. True it was, that the knew well the principle of change to be arguments used elsewhere, had there put found in the fickleness of the people, and on their gawdy gowns; they had been that violent changes are the greatest of clothed in the language for which the national calamities. Though they prefernoble Earl was so distinguished, and which red a Republic to the Monarchy under which might well form a veil impervious to they were smarting, they guarded against common eyes; but to their Lordships it entire dependance upon popular feeling; would not be impenetrable; and he would they adopted the principle of settlement, confidently ask them, whether, when strip- and they did wisely. But what would this ped of the eloquence in which his speech Bill do here? Would it settle any thing ? had been arrayed, it was not, like all the would it not unsettle every thing? he rest, a speech of unsupported theory, and was astonished that any man could read it unproved expediency. Where were his without seeing a principle of mutability statesmanlike appeals to history for so in every page of it. What did the Amerisudden, so desperate a change?' Where cans themselves say of it? His noble were his precedents? In England, in the friend (Lord Haddington) had read some seventeenth century, or in France, in these passages last evening from an American our days ? In the past or in the present? work, published in July, at Boston, and In the records of nations, or even the called, The Prospect of Reform in Europe, opinions of eminent individuals ? He had proving, that this Bill had either no prinquoted Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox as friends ciple at all, or that it was founded on to Reform; but had he ventured to say, what had been aptly called the Rule of that either of those great men had ever 'Three system. Those passages were undreamt of such a measure as that? He answerable, but if he had gone further he should have shown, that an assembly ex-would have found others stillmore applicable clusively democratic ever did or could work to the question as affecting the Monarchy, well in conjunction with a Monarchy andan the House of Lords, and the Church EstabAristocracy; that the power of the public lishment. It was a republican book, of purse alone in the hands of such an assem- no common ability, remarkable for deep bly must not inevitably destroy the neces- observation, and the closest reasoning: sary balance. Had he done so? or, by He would therefore beg permission to read way of perfecting his admirable invention, from it a little further than his noble friend did he mean, that that House should share had gone. [The noble Earl then read in the control of the public purse? His whole several passages, which forcibly argued course of reasoning was obviously incom- , that this Bill would be destructive of the patible with the existence of the British Con- , three branches of the Constitution, observstitution. Fle(Lord Falmouth) would say, as ing, that the wo should be good authoryou want a republic, in God's name have ily, as coming from an American, so one, but do not affront the understandings competent in all respects to deal with the


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