Mr. Paget said, the true source of the evil was, the want of capital, without which the working classes could not possibly have adequate employment. Now, the Question of Reform came directly home to this point, for what caused the want of capital but the overwhelming load of taxes laid on by those insatiable monsters, the boroughmongers? To this it was owing that the poor-rates, which in the time of George 3rd were only 700,0007. had increased to 7,000,000l. loss of the Reform Question, as they would I while Government could spare no time have been by gaining it. It was a great from their speculations to attend to this injustice to accuse his hon. friend of an philanthropic plan, it was digested, preintention to cause a rising amongst the pared, and ably brought forward by the people. It was not usual for Tories like member for the close borough, the rotten his hon. friend, for the Representatives of borough, of Aldborough. When the tuthese decayed and scanty boroughs, to mult and agitation now excited by those disseminate in that House, or elsewhere, who called themselves the friends of the opinions on the subject of the comforts of people had ceased, when the people were the poor, in such a manner as to be allowed to take breath and reflect a little, chargeable with spreading anything like they would inquire, not who represented dissatisfaction; that was not a Tory vice. the largest town, who had the most constiThat, however, was the only defect the tuents, but who brought forward plans hon. and learned member for Stafford was most likely to prove beneficial to the able to find in the plan of his hon. friend. country. With respect to his objections to his hon. friend speaking of the rights of the poor, he must beg to inform the hon. and learned member for Stafford, that he did not use them in the strict and narrow sense in which they were interpreted in Maule and Selwyn's reports; or, according to the definition that would be applied to those rights in the Court of King's Bench. His hon. friend spoke of the rights of the poor in that civil, political, moral, and religious sense, in which they must always be spoken of in every civilized community. He did not say, that those rights had been invaded by the system of inclosures, but he did say, that if in its progress more attention had been paid to the practical amelioration of the condition of the poor, they would not have been in the state they now were. The hon. member for Colchester had truly observed, that there had been cases where the possession of land ought to have been specifically and directly secured to the poor. He did not propose to enter at large into all the topics introduced by his hon. friend, but he was of opinion, that the two main principles he had contended for, had been completely established by him. It would be a great advantage to cheapen the cottages of the poor. They were fifty or perhaps 100 per cent too dear. This, with a small allotment of land, would be a great benefit. The rights of the poor ought to be better secured in all future inclosures. Let it go forth to the public, and let it be remem-hibited a diminishing ratio. Since our bered, that often as the Duke of Newcastle's name had been heard in that House, bandied about from one hon. Member to another, and by some members of the Cabinet too, vilified, cried down, reverberated as it were from the depths of Cacus's cave, as the owner of the nomination borough of Aldborough-let it be remembered, that Mr. Sadler wished to notice a few of the observations which had fallen from the hon. member for Leicester, without mingling political considerations with a subject it was most desirable to keep clear of. With respect to the hon. Member's statement of the amount of the poor-rates at the beginning of the reign of George 3rd, did he not know, that the returns upon which he founded his assertion were acknowledged to be inaccurate? It was matter of historical notoriety that they were, at the time they were made, thrown aside as utterly useless. There was, however, a document drawn up in the reign of Charles 2nd, by a man of great talents and industry, from which it appeared that the poor-rates then amounted to 800,000l., or half the revenue of the country. He would challenge the hon. Member to deny the fact, that the cost of sustaining the poor had, in reference to every other branch of expenditure since then, constantly ex returns upon this subject had been more perfect, this fact had been clearly established; and it appeared from them, that every individual who now paid 9s., a few years back paid 13s. He would cast no reflection upon true political economy, but upon that spurious political economy which laboured to deteriorate the condition of the poor, which constantly attacked the | were to do anything for the poor till those feelings so beautifully described by the prosperous times returned again, they hon. member for Colchester, which sought must never look forward to doing anything to abridge the rights and privileges of ani- for them at all. The capital wanted for mal existence, whilst it protected the rights his plan, they had already. He wanted of the rich. That sort of political economy sinews, muscles, and hearts willing to he should always attack. As to his hav- work. These they had, and, by a proper ing obtruded any theories of his own upon use of them, the produce of the country the House, he could only say, that he had might be increased, and the character of never done more than refer to matters of the whole empire improved. The importfact, which were open to all alike. He ance of this plan was underrated by hon. was to be set right, as the hon. and learned Members. Let them consider the numbermember for Stafford thought, on a point less individuals who would be benefited, of law; but he conceived, notwithstanding the happiness that would be diffused, and that hon. and learned Member's illustration the improvement that would be occasioned of legal technicalities, that he was right, by it, and he was sure its importance would and the hon. Member wrong. He spoke be increased in their eyes, and the diffithe language of the highest law authorities culties in the way of its execution vanish. -not his own. None of the facts he had He regretted it should have been thought brought forward had been impugned. It that he had said anything to irritate the could not be denied, that the ploughshare feelings of the country. Such was far now made its way where once stood the from his wish; but the agitation which had bower of content, the site of which was been occasioned by the present distress now only marked by a few flowers twining could not be calmed without going at once up the fence, memorials of humble domes- to the bottom of it. The surface of sotic happiness. It could not be denied ciety might be calmed, but the mass of sufthat, in many instances, the poor had no fering and of distress beneath would heave, habitatious in which to dwell. How could and, if not counteracted, lay prostrate all the expense of erecting them be objected existing institutions. He regretted to hear, to, when the rental of the village, which since he had entered the House, that the the clergyman he had referred to men- fires were rekindling. He hoped it was tioned, was 700l. a-ycar? Four or five not so; but to prevent it, let them make additional cottages would make all the haste to kindle other flames, namely, the difference between each family having its flame of gratitude in the bosom of the own dwelling, and several now living to- poor. Let them be told that their situagether in that crowded state, which always tion was known, and that the House was rendered decency, and sometimes even anxious to afford them relief. Let them morality, impossible. The cost of building be taught again to entertain feelings of these cottages, compared with the amount respect and affection towards their supeof happiness they would occasion, was so riors-feelings which, he must do them small, that he could not think the Govern- the credit to say, he believed they were ment or the country would refuse to grant anxious to renew. In the statement the trifling boon now asked. They must he had made he had much curtailed what remember how large a portion of the re- he had intended to say; but temporary invenue of the country came from the poor, disposition, and fear of the House becombefore they thought a trifle like this too ing impatient were the cause of it. He much to grant them. Something was said had intended to bring forward the plan in by the hon. member for Leicester about the last Parliament, but the pressure of the poor being rendered comfortable, only other business had prevented him from through the means of high profits to the doing so. He now begged to thank the manufacturer and agriculturist. He would Chancellor of the Exchequer for his kindask him whether, during the latter years ness in allowing him to introduce this of the war, agriculture was not prosperous? measure, and the House for the patience Yet, in the report on labourers' wages, it with which it had listened to him. was found, that it was at this very time, when the returns on agricultural capital were so large, that the pernicious system which now degraded our labourers took its rise. If they must wait before they Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. ACCOMMODATIONS IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.] Colonel Trench, in bringing tion. The first might be materially improved by the construction of a new roof, framed and lined with wood; and by the adoption of the ordinary measures, the ventilation might be made infinitely better. These improvements might be effected without any essential alteration in the form of the apartment, for which he had the greatest veneration. Interruption, too, to the Speaker might be avoided according to Mr. Wyatt's plan, by con from which doors should open upon every gangway; so that an hon. Member, in taking his place, need never pass over the floor of the House. Nor need there ever be that accumulation of Members at the bar, which now gave rise to such noise and interruption to the debate. The alterations would afford increased accommodations to the Members, would increase the size of the House, would enable them to have it better ventilated, would improve the hearing, and facilitate the means of communication from one part to another, and all this would be performed for the sum of 6,9007. This statement was exclusive of the roof, which would make the sum amount to 10,000l. In making the statement, he was bound to tell the House that the Committee appointed to investigate this matter had not agreed with him, and that the Report he had made as their Chairman was of course made according to the wishes of the majority, but his own opinion remained the same as before. The gallant Colonel then proposed that at the begin up the Report of the Committee for the improvement of the House, observed, that the bad state of the atmosphere, and the exposure to unequal draughts of air had already caused the death of several hon. Members in the course of this arduous Session. He had to state, that three architects had been consulted-Sir Geoffrey Wyattville, Mr. Benjamin Wyatt, and Mr. Smirke. He would first state in what they agreed, then in what they differed. They all agreed, that the accom-structing a passage round the apartment, modation in the House at present was altogether inadequate to the number of Members, and that two feet was the least space which ought to be allotted to every Gentleman who had to sit for a number of hours. He had admitted, that in the theatres a space of not more than eighteen or twenty inches was allowed. In the House, as it then stood, there were only 700 feet of accommodation; therefore, only accommodation for 350 Members. Now, Sir Geoffrey Wyattville's plan was, on either side to open a recess between the piers of thirty feet, and to cover it with a flat roof, which should not in the least interfere with the building as it then stood. These recesses would afford accommodation to 140 Members. But he considered the plan liable to objection, inasmuch as Mr. Speaker would have great difficulty in seeing hon. Members in those remote recesses; and they would find it scarcely possible to make themselves heard by all the House. Mr. Benjamin Wyatt's plan was, that the House should be projected into the Lobby, and that beyond that an-ning of next Session the Committee should other and more extensive Lobby should be constructed a plan to which he himself inclined, and to which all persons who voted on the late division must, he should imagine, feel well disposed. By this addition to the House there would be accommodation afforded for 100 more Members than at present. According to the usual allowance of eighteen inches space for each person, there would then be in the House accommodation for 590 Members, and for 450, at least, that ample space in which a man of ordinary dimen-blowing in that quarter. He also sugsions might sit, in a comfortable position, for a number of hours. The plan of Mr. Wyatt he considered might be carried into effect at a small expense. His estimate was 3441.; Mr. Smirke's was 3501.; and he thought this plan would give all the ac commodation required. The next points to be considered were hearing and ventila be renewed, and should receive at the same time instructions as to which of the plans they should adopt-that of altering the House in the way he proposed, or that of building another, as was suggested by the Committee. He moved that the Report of the Committee be received this day three weeks. Mr. Hunt said, that he thought that something ought to be done directly to remedy the inconvenience which was felt from the west window when the wind was gested, that as many hon. Members had their boots shod with iron, and frequently walked or rather trotted, or rather went in a bog-trot amble across the House, a carpet should be put down to diminish the noise. Colonel Sibthorp said, that one obserIvation made by the gallant Colonel in duced him to say a few words to the House. They were told that this proposed plan would improve the hearing. He should be glad of that, for it was often said, that members, and he for one, could not be heard; it was so said by the corrupt, hired, and perverted Press. He stated that without fear of what might be said respecting him by that corrupt Press. He had asked for better accommodation for the reporters, who now made excuses for not hearing. All he asked was, not to be misrepresented. He desired the House to consider this subject attentively, and unless they were satisfied that the proposed alteration would be sure of producing the expected advantages, he should, for one, say, that he should be more willing to lay out 60,000l. for building a new House, than to expend 6,9007. for alterations that might not be sufficient. Sir J. Wrottesley stated, that the Committee, after carefully examining the subject, had come to a conclusion the opposite of that adopted by their hon. Chairman. He himself was perfectly convinced that, if they attempted to make the proposed alterations, they must expend a much larger sum without obtaining adequate accommodation, and that in every respect it would be better to have a new House. Mr. Warburton said, there was one attempt they ought to make, and that was, to alter the mode of geting fresh air into the House. He understood that they were now at a great expense to pump in fresh air, as it was called, but the chief place from which that fresh air was obtained, was one from which the air sent into the House, at the spot near which he sat, was most mephitic and offensive. Colonel Cust hoped, that something would be done to remedy the present acknowledged inconvenience of many of the offices attached to the House. Mr. Croker fully agreed with his gallant friend who had introduced this question, that the further consideration of the Report ought to be postponed for three weeks; for, as within that time the prorogation was likely to take place, it would amount to an entire postponement. He was, indeed, a little surprised and disappointed that an hon. Member, with whom he had had the pleasure of voting for the last six months, should now appear as the advocate for reforming this House, and should begin his advocacy by proposing, like the Radi cal's out of doors, to remove the piers. He must oppose him in this Reform, as he had opposed others in one of a political kind, the object of which was also to remove the peers. His hon. and gallant friend had told them, with an odd combination of expressions, that no man could sit comfortably in that House without "two feet;" and had proceeded to calculate their seats by "running measure." This was, indeed, a Reform on fundamental principles, and might not be without its advantage if they saw any prospect of such a union of parties as would form a broad-bottomed Administration. But he thought, under present circumstances, it would be fitter to argue the case à priori, and consider whether they were not very well as they were. It was a remarkable instance of the blindness with which one favourite object or theory will affect the clearest intellects, when his hon. and gallant friend chose this particular moment to produce his proposition for the enlargement of the House. They had last night agreed to a measure that was equivalent to a diminution of the numbers of the House, and on that, the following night, a scheme was offered to them for rendering it capable of containing a larger number of Members. The hon. Gentleman apparently forgot that this House, which had so long been found tolerably convenient for 658 Members, must surely be large enough for a much smaller number. It had been said, that they had not room enough for hon. Members; but the benches were seldom fully occupied, and certainly a greater number of Members could not be expected to attend when the numbers of the House were reduced. On this occasion, which concerned them all, they had but a scanty attendance; it was, therefore, clear, that it was not places that they wanted. He did not blindly reverence the mere antiquity of the edifice; but he could not forget that it was the place in which the Cecils and the Bacons, the Wentworths and Hampdens, the Somers's and the St. Johns, the Walpoles and the Pulteneys, the Pitts, the Foxes, the Murrays, and the Burkes, had "lived, and breathed, and had their being." He did, he confessed, however weak it might appear to the strong-minded Reformers of the day-he did feel the influence of the religio loci; and as long as the human mind was susceptible of local associations, he could not disregard the beneficial effect that might be felt from their continuing to assemble on the scene where so many illustrious actors had per- | duty, and listen patiently to a debate, formed such splendid parts. If patriotism from which, with easier means of egress, could grow warmer on the plain of Mara- they probably would escape. With the thon, and piety amid the ruins of Iona, facilities which his gallant friend's plan the zeal and talents of British senators proposed, they would continually have might also be exalted by the religious and Gentlemen of locomotive habits moving legislative sanctity with which time and about, to the obvious interruption of the circumstances had invested the ancient business of the House and the country. chapel of St. Stephen. The Irish House of Commons and the French Chambers, which were built according to all the rules of architecture and all the theory of acoustics, were the worst constructed buildings for hearing that was The hon. Member complained of the disorderly assemblage of Members about the bar during a full House: it happened rather unfortunately for this argument, that while the hon. Gentleman was speak-possible, while the English House of ing they were repeatedly compelled to call Commons, patched and pieced as it was, upon hon. Members to take their places, contained nearly all the advantages a Leand to cry out" Bar! Bar!" although there gislative Assembly could desire. They might was sitting-room for 250 Members vacant make a building as large as Westminster at the moment. It was not places for Hall without ensuring attention, for that seating an audience that they wanted, but depended on the speaker and his auditors, the power of commanding attention. He and not on the place. He therefore did not was sure that those who had attended to think it would be necessary to enlarge the the Debates in that House would agree House, though there were some parts of with him, that whenever a Gentleman its interior to which the attention of the rose to whom the House was desirous of Board of Works ought to be directed. attending, he had always the power of He should, on the whole, oppose the further making himself heard. He doubted whe- consideration of this subject, which he ther any architectural alteration that could thought quite needless to be introduced be made would ensure either the attention at this moment, and which he did not beof the House when it was not disposed to lieve could at any time be beneficially arlisten, or the power of any Member of com-ranged on the principles proposed by his manding that attention. Another grievance alleged against the present House was, the narrowness and inconvenience of its benches; but he was inclined rather to admire the House for the peculiarity of its benches; for he knew that if they were uneasy to sit upon, they were still less formed to gratify the propensity which their speeches might occasionally produce, as it was almost impossible to sleep upon them. They knew from the example of Eutychus, that a greater orator than even that House had ever produced, had occasionally set some of his auditory asleep and, even in this short Debate, the House might see that no additional convenience was necessary to invite hon. Members to repose [one or two Members were observed to be asleep on the back benches.] Another part of his hon. friend's proposition was, to afford wider gangways, and greater facilities of moving about. But he doubted whether that would turn out to be any material advantage, as, at present, many hon. Members kept their places from an indisposition to disturb their neighbours; and were sometimes induced to attend to a, perhaps, tedious hon. and gallant friend. Colonel Trench said, he was particularly unhappy that the right hon. Gentleman had made him the subject of his wit and sarcasm. He was utterly unable to follow the right hon. Gentleman in these respects. He was afraid that he had made a statement which the right hon. Gentleman could not understand. Mr. Croker said, he should feel very sorry if his hon. friend supposed he had meant any personal offence to him; on the contrary, he had the greatest respect and regard for him, and was perfectly aware of the purity of his hon. friend's taste in architecture. All he had ventured to suggest was, that the building they then possessed, notwithstanding many apparent defects, was, in fact, admirably fitted for the great purposes for which they assembled in it. Motion agreed to. BANKRUPTCY COURT BILL.] The Attorney General moved, that the Bankruptcy Court Bill be committed. On the question, that the Speaker leave the Chair, |