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a clock in his way, and he recollected | Bill. It was not so much on account of that the time was a little past seven o'clock. the attacks which had been made perWhen he arrived at the Home Office there sonally upon himself or upon his property, was nobody there to give him any informa- that he drew the attention of the noble tion, there was no person with whom he Lord opposite to this subject; it was on could communicate, and he begged to account of his anxiety for the general good know whether it was usual for the official of the country, and for the preservation persons whose duty it was to attend there, of the public peace. to go away from thence at such an early The Marquis of Londonderry said, that hour, especially in times of such difficulty he had also some circumstances to state and danger as the present? If such was illustrative of the system of outrage carried the usual practice in that office, he would on against noble Lords on that side of the not say a word more on that point. He House, to which he wished to call the must be permitted, however, to observe, attention of the Secretary for the Home that on an occasion like that of yesterday, Department. He should not have done when such attacks as had been made by so on account of any personal attacks that the mob on himself, and on other Peers had been made upon himself, but as the sitting on that side of the House, might noble Duke who had just sat down had have been expected, some persons ought mentioned the attacks which had been to have been in attendance at the Home made on his person and property, he (the Office to receive their complaints, and to Marquis of Londonderry) would state to afford them protection. He thought that their Lordships what had occurred to him such persons ought to be found in attend in his coming down to and returning from ance at the Home Office, and it was under the House yesterday. On his coming that impression that he went there to seek down to the House he was assailed by a for their assistance. But he found no large mob, and he was also in his return such person there, and he was consequently from the discharge of his duties in that obliged to have recourse to a person con- House, again attacked by a furious mob. nected with the police, who, he must say, He would not say that all arrangements gave him every assistance. The fact was, for the prevention of such outrageous prothat if such outrageous proceedings as ceedings had been neglected by Governthose to which he was alluding were not ment, but it did so happen on this occasion, prevented and put down, they would have that there was not a single policeman no government in this country but the stationed in Parliament-street, where an government of a mob. If the Government immense and riotous mob was assembled, did not put down such proceedings, and though there was a considerable police if the mob were allowed to go on with the force in the immediate neighbourhood of attacks which they were making on noble the House. He was proceeding home Lords on that side of the House, both in from the House in his cabriolet, when their progress to, and on their return from this mob in Parliament-street attacked the House, on account of the conscientious him. They seized his cabriolet, endeadischarge of their duty, he would repeat, voured to drag him out of it, and one big that mob government would be, in fact, strong fellow hit him a violent blow with a the order of the day, and the regular stick on his arm.

If the mob had sucGovernment of the country would stand ceeded in pulling him out of his cabriolet, the chance of being accused of neglecting he was quite sure they would have murits duty through the fear of the mob. dered him; but, fortunately for him, the Before he sat down he would entreat his individual who was with him in the cabriMajesty's Ministers to guard against the olet drove the horse forward, and he thus doings of the mob which was announced escaped from the mob. He did not state for to-morrow. He would caution them the circumstances of this attack upon his to prevent such large collections of the life through fear or alarm. Knowing, as people, under existing circumstances, as he did, that we can all die but once, and were announced for that occasion. If they that when our time arrives we must go, did not do so, tumult, and riot, and dis- he was not accessible to personal intimidaorder, might be the result; and attacks tion. But he, and the other Peers in that might be renewed on the lives and House who were made the objects of such perties of those noble Lords who had given attacks on the part of an outrageous mob, a conscientious vote against the Reform had a right to demand protection from his VOL. VIII. { Series >


Majesty's Government. His Majesty's | his Majesty's subjects. He deeply lamented Ministers should have remembered that the state of excitement in this town at such attacks might be made, and should present: he deeply regretted the agitation have been prepared to provide their Lord which prevailed in it, and he deeply and ships with due protection both for their sincerely lamented that any noble Lord, or persons and properties. He (the Marquis any individual, should have been exposed of Londonderry) had not only been per- to acts of outrage and violence. He could sonally attacked and his life put in danger, assure the noble Lords who had complained but a large mob had also attacked his of such acts of outrage, and he could house, and if the windows of his house had assure the House, that no individual could been mended since the former attack be more anxious than he was to use every which was made upon it, they would have effort in his power, and to direct all the been all broken. As it was, such as had energy and force of the law towards rebeen mended were all broken last night by pressing every species of violence and the mob. He thought that under such outrage. When, however, he was told circumstances he had a right to call for the that means of defence should have been protection of his Majesty's Government. provided against the attacks which might The Government were bound to protect have been expected upon the houses of the lives and properties of all his Majes- noble Lords on the opposite side of the ty's subjects, which included, of course, the House, he begged their Lordships to bear noble Lords on both sides of that House, this in mind, that when a violent agitation and to see that none of them should be prevailed, when great crowds of people made the victims of popular fury. 'The were collected together in different parts of Peers of Parliament should be defended the town, and when the rabble were led to against the assaults of a violent mob, in commit those acts of outrage, some of their progress to and from that House. which had been unfortunately committed They were entitled to that protection while on this occasion—when such a state of discharging the important duties which things existed, it was impossible for the devolved upon them. He must say, that Secretary for the Home Department, and if such proceedings on the part of the mob for the Magistrates, with any force that were allowed to go on, and if such attacks was in their possession, or that they could were to be permitted upon the persons as bring together, to guard every house in well as the properties of the Members of town that might be supposed liable to be that House, he, for one, was determined to attacked. He exceedingly regretted that carry arms about with him for his protec- the house of the noble Duke opposite tion, and he would now declare, that if should have been attacked in the manner any man should attack him again in the he had stated. The noble Duke stated, way that he was attacked last night, he that on his applying at the Home Office, would use the arms which he would carry he could find no person there to give him with him in his vindication and self-assistance, or information as to where he defence. If any man should strike hiin as could procure it. He must beg, therefore, the fellow did last night, he would use lo state in his own vindication, that every those arms in his defence. Again he arrangement had been made by the perwould call on his Majesty's Government sons connected with the Home Office to take proper precautions against such which it was in their power to make, for outrageous proceedings on the part of the the preservation of the peace of the town mob—again he would urge on them the last evening, and if the noble Duke had necessity of taking such steps as were applied either to the police office in his necessary under existing circumstances to neighbourhood in Marylebone-street, or to afford protection to the Members of that the police-office in Scotland-yard, instead House in the discharge of their public of going to the Home Office, he would duties.

have found that assistance which he Viscount Melbourne begged to assure required. When the noble Duke did the noble Marquis and the noble Duke apply to the police, as he had stated, that opposite, that the first desire of his Majes- assistance was afforded to him, as the ty's Government in general, and of him- report made to him that morning stated, self in particular, as it was his especial promptly and efficiently. Again he would duty, was to afford every possible protection say, that the outrages on property were both to the persons and properties of all deeply to be lamented and deprecated, and the outrages upon the persons of in- , they had come the other day, he was dividuals were still more to be deplored ready to say, that it was a consequence and deprecated. He was exceedingly for which he was well prepared, and which sorry to hear that the noble Marquis oppo- he fully expected at the time when he had site (Londonderry) had been attacked in the given his vote. He did not think that violent manner that he had stated. It was the inhabitants of the metropolis had done much to be regretted, sincerely and ex- ' any thing to disgrace themselves. He was ceedingly to be deprecated, and this happy to see such prudence exhibited by observation applied to the case of other them. Notwithstanding the means that Peers as well as to that of the noble Mar-' were tried to create excitement among the quis, that any particular course which they people, he was satisfied, and felt a confimight have felt it necessary to pursue on dent hope, that they would treat their any public question should expose them Lordships with respect, and would believe to popular displeasure. He need not that their Lordships, in coming to the derepeat that he regretted it much. He need cision to which they had come, had no not say, that he deprecated and condemned intention of injuring their liberties, but in the strongest manner the display of any rather, that in the vote to which the people thing like violence towards them. Every might think, perhaps, they had wrongly thing that depended on his Majesty's come, had taken that course which to them Government would be done to preserve appeared the best for the protection and the public peace. But the noble Marquis preservation of the rights and liberties of must see, that the Government, take what the people. He must say, in justice to steps it might, could not prevent many the inhabitants of this town, that they things that had occurred, as the result of had not committed any thing in the way popular excitement in the metropolis; but of disturbance of public order, beyond he repeated that it was the firm determin- . what he had reason to expect, or even so ation of Government to use all means much. at its disposal to prevent the violation Lord Ellenborough said, that no public of the public peace.

excitement prevailed on this subject in the The Marquis of Londonderry said, that metropolis, that had not been mainly and he fully concurred in every thing that had ' entirely occasioned by the public Press, fallen from the noble Viscount. He was and if his Majesty's Ministers did not quite sure that the subject would en- take steps to coerce that Press, but allowgage the noble Lord's best attention, and ed it to pursue its present criminal course that he would use all the means in his with perfect impunity, there was no calcupower for the protection of the persons lating what mischief might happen. He and property of the noble Lords in that gave the noble Viscount credit for what House, in common with the rest of the he had stated, and he had no doubt that King's subjects. He would, however, beg his Majesty's Ministers would do what to suggest to the noble Lord the propriety they could to preserve the public peaceof having a police force stationed along what was expected from them both as Parliament-street and Whitehall, as well Ministers and as gentlemen and men of as in Palace-yard, in order to afford safe honour. and free access to that House. Such a Subject dropped. course was absolutely necessary, as the crowds were generally collected in greatest SELECT VESTRIES Bill.) Viscount force beyond the line where the police Melbourne moved the second reading of were stationed.

the Select Vestries Bill. Lord Wharncliffe said, he was ready to The Duke of Wellington asked what bear his testimony to the zeal and activity was the object of the Bill? of the noble Secretary for the Home De- Viscount Melbourne said, that it went to partment, in the steps he had taken to establish several new, and he, considered, preserve the public tranquillity. He did necessary, regulations with respect to the believe that every possible means had been powers of vestries in general, and select taken in that respect, and for guarding vestries in particular, with respect to which, the persons and property of the Members great excitement at present prevailed in of that House. Certainly, considering the metropolis, and in several of the large the excitement that prevailed, as one of towns throughout the kingdom. It apthe consequences of the vote to which peared that the common-law right of all rate-payers to vote at vestries was found vestries in several parishes in this metroto be extremely inconvenient in large and polis, feared that some such measure as populous parishes, and in order to facilitate this was absolutely necessary for their the proceedings of vestries, it was found better regulation and amendment. He necessary, in many cases, to have the busi- was of opinion that the government of ness of the parish confided to select bodies. parishes should be placed as much as This, however, was, in its turn, found to possible upon the same footing as the lead to some abuses, and to very general general Government of the country—that dissatisfaction. It was complained of from was to say, that the people should have all quarters, and its inconvenience was ad- the election of their parochial, as they had mitted even by many of the members of of their Parliamentary Representatives, those select bodies, that it was a system who had to deal with their money. It which required alteration. The object of might be necessary, however, to introthe present Bill was, to make those amend- duce some modifications of the Bill, both ments which were considered necessary in as regarded, parishes in London and in the system. He would now move, that the the country, and for that purpose, as well Bill should be read a second time, and be as for coming to a true understanding of referred to a Committee up-stairs. One of the nature of it, it was necessary to refer its chief objects.was, to introduce a system it to a Committee up-stairs. of general election from the whole body Bill read a second time, and Committee of rate-payers, under certain regulations. appointed. As the measure was one the necessity of which seemed to be admitted by all parties, ScotchI APPEALS.) The Lord Chanhe supposed there would be no objection cellor moved the Order of the Day for to its being now read a second time. the second reading of the Scotch Court

Lord Skelmersdale said, he would not of Session Bill, for the purpose of postobject to the second reading, on the un- poning it to Thursday. derstanding that it was to be referred to a Lord Wynford could not let that opporSelect Committee, as he considered the tunity pass without asserting that he was Bill would require considerable amend ready to maintain the correctness of the ment before it could be passed into a law. judgment he had pronounced in this cause,

The Duke of Wellington thought, that and which his noble and learned friend that clause in the Bill which left it op- had last night impugned. The Bill astional with a parish to avail itself of it or sumed that he directed the issue to be not, would not have the effect of allaying tried by a Jury of merchants, but he did the excitement which at present existed no such thing. on this subject : he feared it would have The Lord Chancellor was sorry that his the contrary effect to what was intended, noble and learned friend felt so much and was, therefore, particularly objection- annoyed on this subject, or that he should able. He admitted that the system in at all imagine that his professional chamany of the parishes in the metropolis re- racter was affected by it.

He had yet to quired amendment, but why not confine learn that a knowledge of the Scotch law the Bill to the metropolis, or why not or practice formed any portion of the eduapply Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act to the cation of an English lawyer. On the metropolitan parishes, as a remedy for the contrary, he believed that the better lawyer evils complained of?

an English advocate was, the less he was Lord King said, that much greater ex- likely to know of the practice of Scotch citement would be caused if this Bill was law, and the more probable it was, that he thrown out, than could possibly arise should fall into the mistake that special from the operation of any clause in it, Juries, so familiar to the mind of an Engsuch as that alluded to by the noble Duke. lish practitioner, should be also found in It being admitted on all hands that the a country so civilized as Scotland. He existing system required revision and was anxious to postpone this Bill to amendment, whatever they did for that Thursday, in order to have the advantage purpose should, in order to effect the ob- of the presence of his noble and learned jects which they had in view, be done as predecessor, in whose time this judgment speedily as possible.

had been pronounced, and who was fully The Bishop of London, speaking from acquainted with all the circumstances of what he knew of the system of select I the case, which he himself was not. He


did not imagine that doubt existed as oath, and it was now said, that this could to the propriety of passing this Bill; but not be, as the original parties to the suit after what had fallen from his noble and had long since died; but that fact did not learned friend, he should make particular vitiate or annul the judgment; for if their inquiries concerning it.

Lordships decided in a case to-day, that Lord Wynford said, he held in his hand the parties should be examined on oath, the judgment which he had pronounced, and those parties should die to-morrow, and it contained no such words as, “ Spe- that fact would not annul the judgment. cial Jury of Merchants." The words in it Even supposing the judgment in this parwere “ Special Jury.”

ticular case wrong, there was no occasion Lord Ellenborough suggested, that the for an Act of Parliament to correct the proper course would be, to refer the matter error. He should be sorry to think it to a Committee of privileges. It appeared necessary to apply to the House of Comto him that if an error had been com- mons to correct a clerical error in one of mitted, their Lordships could correct it their Lordships' judicial decisions, and to without an Act of Parliament, and that it suppose that they did not possess a power was not expedient to involve the House of vested in the lowest Courts in the kingdom, Commons in an act to correct an error in of correcting errors in their own decisions. their own judicial proceedings. At present The Lord Chancellor said, it would be there was no foundation for such a bill in inconvenient to proceed with this discusthe shape of a petition from the parties in sion now in the absence of the noble and the cause; and, even if the proceeding learned Lord (Lyndhurst) with whom the were a right one, it should not be done Judges in Scotland had corresponded on hastily, and without a due observance of the subject, who was fully acquainted the rules and orders of the House.

with it, and who had no doubt that there The Lord Chancellor said, this was vot was a mistake. He begged to assure his a Bill for the purpose of altering a judg-noble and learned friend (Lord Wynford) ment of the House, but for the purpose of that there was nothing more common in placing a cause in a state fit for a rehear-Scotch practice than to refer to an acing. There would be abundance of time countant the decision of disputed matters for discussing the subject on Thursday. of fact. Lord Wynford said, that as a lawyer

The second reading fixed for Thursday. and as a layman, he had no doubt as to the correctness of the judgment he had given. This cause related to a partnership,

II OUSE OF COMMONS, and, to the disgrace of the judicature of Tuesday, October 11, 1831. the country, it had been before the Courts Minutes.] Bills. Read a first time; Lunatics ; Baking Trade since the period of the American war. The (Ireland); to amend 59th George 3rd, for the Relief and Scotch Judges, instead of sending a ques

Employment of the Poor; and also to repeal the provisions

of several Acts relating to Grand Jury Presentments tion of a matter of fact, which the case

(Ireland.) Read a third time; the Consolidated Fund involved, to a Jury, sent it to an account- Appropriation; Special Constables; Valuation of Land ant for decision." He (Lord Wynford), Returns ordered.

(Ireland); Military Accounts (Ireland).

On the Motion of Mr. SPRING RICE, seeing that it was a cause that ought to the number of Half-pay Officers of the Army employed in be tried by a Jury, ordered it to be sent

any Civil Oflice paid by Government, specifying the name

of the Officer, his military rank, annual amount of Halfto one, and the parties to be examined, and

pay received, Annual Amount of Half-pay forfeited, Salary he was, in point of law, justified in sending or Fees of Civil Office; description of Office, and where it to a Special Jury in Scotland, as, by a

situated, &c.; also, specifying, how many Officers are on

Half-pay at rates below 58. a-day, and of these how many late Act of Parliament, Juries had been

receive Civil Salaries under 1501., 2001., and 2501., aintroduced into that country for the trial year, together with their Half-pay; how many are on of important civil causes. He had to

Half-pay at rates below 7s. a-day, receiving, with their

Half-pay, Civil Salaries; and how many at rates above 78.; complain that the Judges in Scotland, and also, the number of Half-pay Officers in the year 1851, who the parties interested in this matter, had are in receipt of Civil Salaries exceeding twice the amount

of their Half-pay, and who now receive their Half-pay, not corresponded with him on the subject,

together with the Civil Salary, under the Clause of the Apand that they had withheld all their light propriation Act of 1820, stating the amount of Half-pay from the very individual who would now received; also, the increased charge of Half-pay which was

actually incurred, in the year 1821, over and above the have to defend the judgment. In pursu- charge in the preceding year, in consequence of the clause, ance of the practice of the Courts of Equity in the Appropriation Act 1820, allowing Half-pay Offiin England in similar cases, he had ordered

cers, under certain restrictions, to receive their Half-pay

with Civil Salaries; also the actual saving of Expense for that the parties should be examined on

one year to the public, from July, 1828, when the Appro.

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