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from him to desert the service of the King | the cause of Parliamentary Reform must while his Majesty thinks our services valu- ultimately triumph, Whether my colable, and we ourselves think we can leagues and myself are destined to have advantageously serve his Majesty. But the honour of success upon that question we can no longer serve his Majesty advan- as Ministers, or whether, as in the Catholic tageously if we sacrifice our character. Question, after having fought the battle, Whatever may be the consequences of our others are to enjoy the glory of the victory, retirement, it is our duty not to sacrifice I know not; but as long as I have any our character. We owe also a great deal voice in the direction of public affairs, I to the people. We have been supported will use my utmost exertions in the cause by the people in the most handsome man- of Parliamentary Reform. ner. The people have a right to demand Mr. Hunt said, he felt very much dethat we should not desert them while our lighted at hearing the noble Lord, the stay in office can conduce to their benefit. Chancellor of the Exchequer, recoin mendSir, I will further state, that I will not being pe ice and obedience to the laws, the a party to the proposal of any measure more especially as the public Press was less efficient than that lately passed in this inciting the people to acts of violence. House. I do not inean to say, that after He was persuaded, however, that the noble the discussion and consideration which the Lord need not be alarmed. Notwithstand. measure underwent, some modification ing the instigations of the press, in his may not be made in it which, without opinion the people would not commit any diminishing its efficiency, may render it acts of violence. When the House of more complete. But what I mean to say is, Lords threw out the Bill, the people had that I will be no party to any measure been recommended to preserve peace. which I do not conscientiously believe There was no reason for such a recomwill give the people a full, free, and fair mendation. Where had there been any Representation in Parliament, and secure violence? Where had any multitudes of all the objects which we hoped to effect the people assembled ? Had hon. Memfor them by the late Bill. It is impossible bers seen the people in great numbers in that his Majesty's present Government can their way to the House ? When the make any other proposition to the House. Catholic Question was under discussion, I admit that the opponents of the Bill the assemblage of people in the neighhave had a great triumph; although, in bourhood of the House was twenty to one the present Debate, with the exception of as compared with the assemblage of that one hon. Gentleman, no great triumph day; when the Corn bill was under dishas been expressed. But I am confident cussion, they were as a hundred to one. that the measure is only postponed. I am The newspapers of that morning had said satisfied that if the people of England that all the shops were to be closed, and will be firm and determined, but at the that papers with the words “ no taxes," same time peaceable and quiet, there can were to be posted on the shutters. be no doubt of their ultimate and even had put his horse to, and had driven speedy success. There is one, and only through Westminster, and the City, and one, chance of failure and disappointment; over London Bridge, and so to Blackfriar's I mean any occurrence that may lead the Road, and in the whole of that distance people to break out into acts of violence, he had not observed a single act of vioor into any unconstitutional conduct. If ience, and had seen only one shop with I bave any influence with the people, if a single shutter up, on which was exhibited they put any trust in my sincerity, I im- the word “ Reform,” in mourning. He plore them, for the sake of the great cause had been asked why he was not in the in which we are engaged, to be patient Regent's Park that morning. His answer and peaceable, and to do nothing illegal was, that he had no business there, and and unconstitutional. I would say to them, that he had not been invited. He had, “ Be as firm, be as determined, be as per- however, been at a meeting that night severing as you please; but never break elsewhere, and, being asked, had taken the through legal and constitutional restraints ; chair. The meeting consisted of between never place yourselves in a situation in two and three thousand persons. He which the law must be put in operation thought he could not do better than submit against you whoever are Ministers.” By to that meeting the proposition which the temperance, steadiness, and perseverance noble Lord had submitted to the House;
and the result was, that when the question people, a thing of which he (Mr. Hunt) was put, seven hands were held up in should have been ashamed at any time favour of the proposition, and above 2,000 within the last ten years. Did any policeagainst it. He had told the meeting that men interfere on the occasion ? It would he had no confidence in his Majesty's Mi- have been very foolish if they had. But nisters. And why? Because they came coming over Blackfriar's Bridge that in on pledges of Economy, Retrenchment, evening, a number of people had surand Reform, which pledges they had rounded his (Mr. Hunt's) carriage, and violated. The kind of Reform which they had requested to be allowed to draw him, proposed, he had never advocated in his but he declined it. The police neverthelite; and he was sure it would give no less interfered, and drove the people away satisfaction to the people at large. (much with sticks. There never was a measure noise and coughing, and calls of "Ques- respecting which the people had been so tion.")
grossly imposed upon as they were by the Mr. Croker rose to order. He hoped Reform Bill. It was not so much by the House would listen to the hon. mem- Ministers as by their agents of the Press ber for Preston, as he seldom troubled that the people had been so deceived. them at any great length.
The Press endeavoured to make the people Mr. Hunt proceeded. His Majesty's believe that they were to have everything Ministers had come in on a pledge of they ought to have; and yet seven-eighths Economy and Retrenchment. How bad of the people were excluded from the they redeemed it? When they were in elective franchise. He (Mr. Hunt) had opposition they opposed the grant of all his life contended that every man in 16,0001. for the Propagation of the Gospel, the community should have a share in the and proposed that it should be reduced to Representation. Nothing would, and 8,0001., and the next year totally with nothing ought, to satisfy the people of drawn. When they canie into power, they England but householders' suffrage, and ob. ained the whole 16,0001. Who were Triennial Parliaments. The line limiting so loud as the present Ministers when in the franchise to 101. householders was opposition against the extravagancies of most absurd and unjust. Windsor Castle? And yet they who com- Lord Ebrington said, he thanked the plained so loudly of the expense of the right hon. Gentleman, the member for furnishing of Windsor Castle, obtained an Tamworth, for reminding him of an omisadditional grant of 10,0001. for furnishing sion he had made, and that was the two rooms. They had increased the foreign policy of the present Government. army and the navy-they had called out He thought the gratitude of the country the yeomanry and the militia. Was that was due to them, and to the noble Lord eseconomy? When the Committee on the pecially at the head of the Foreign DepartCivil List-a Committee appointed by the ment, for the skill, discretion, and ability present Ministers, brought in their Report, with which he conducted a most arduous recommending a reduction of 12,0001., negotiation, and had brought the country that recommendation was rejected. Was safely through all difficulties, which had that retrenchment? They then proposed been aggravated, both in this and the other an annuity of 100,0001. to the Queen, in House of Parliament, by the party of the the event of the King's death. If a Tory hon. Gentleman opposite. The Ministers Administration had made such a proposi- wished to preserve the country from foreign tion, what a clamour would have been war, and establish peace between two raised against them! (coughing.] If the neighbouring countries. No one at the noise continued he would move an ad- other side, except the hon. member for journment. The present Ministers had in- Preston, had attempted to say there was stituted no inquiries into subjects respect any re-action in public opinion ; and if ing which the people complained. They silence gave consent, their silence admitted had proposed no investigation into the case this-[cries of “ No, no.") Hon. Gentleof the Deacles, or into the occurrences at men said no; but there had been proof Newtownbarry, or Castlepollard. How given within the last twenty-four hours could he have any confidence in men who which must convince every reasonable had so conducted themselves? He under-man, that there was no alteration in public stood that the Lord Chancellor had allowed opinion upon Parliamentary Reform, or himself to be drawn in his carriage by the that, if there were alteration, it was in an
increased intensity of the public feeling in Howick, Lord Philipps, Sir R. B. its favour. He trusted that opinion would Hudson, T.
Phillipps, C. M. continue to be manifested in a quiet and Hughes, W. H. Philips, G. R. peaceable manner, and that would secure
Hughes, Colonel Portman, E. B. the consummation of the wishes of the
Poyntz, W. S. people, in the only way in which they James, w.
Ingilby, Sir W. A. Price, Sir R. could be acceded to with safety to the Jerningham, Hon. H.
Protheroe, E. Constitution.
Johnstone, Sir J. V. Ramsbottom, J. The House divided on the Resolution :- Kemp, T. R.
Robarts, W. A.
Knight, H. G.
Robinson, Sir G.
Labouchere, H. Robinson, G. H. ENGLAND. Creevey, Thomas Langston, J. H. Rooper, J. B. Adeane, Henry J. Currie, John
Langton, W. Gore Rumbold, C. E.
Russell, Lord J.
Lefevre, C. S.
Russell, Lord W. Atherley, A. Denman, Sir T. Leigh, T. C.
Russell, Sir R. G. Baillie, James Evan Duncombe, T. S. Leinon, Sir C. Sanford, E. A. Bainbridge, E. T. Dundas, Sir R. L. Lennard, T. B. Scoil, Sir E. D. Barham, J.
Dundas, Hon. J. C. Lennox, Lord A. Sebright, Sir J.
Dundas, Hon. T. Lennox, Lord J. G. Skipwith, Sir G.
Slaney, R. A.
Smith, J. A.
Maberly, John Smith, G. R.
Maberly, Colonel Smith, M. T.
Macaulay, T. B. Spencer, Hon. F. R. Biddulph, R. M. Evans, W. B.
Macdonald, Sir J. Stanhope, Captain Blake, Sir F.
Evans, Col. de Lacy Mackintosh, Sir J. Stanley, E. J.
Stanley, Rt. Hon. E.G. Blount, E.
Fazakerley, J. N. Marjoribanks, S. Stephenson, H. F. Blunt, Sir R. C. Fellowes, H. A. W., Marshall, w.
Stewart, P. M. Bouverie, Hon. D. P. Fergusson, Sir R. Martin, J.
Stuart, Lord J.
Foley, Hon. T. H. Mildmay, P. St. J. Surrey, Earl of
Stuart, Lord D. C.
Tavistock, Marquis Bulwer, H. L.
Fordwich, Viscount Morpeth, Viscount Talbot, C. R. M. Bulwer, E L. Foster, James Morrison, J.
Noel, Sir G. N. Thompson, P. B.
Thomson, Rt. Hon. C. Byng, Sir J. Graham, Sir J. R. G. Norton, Hon. C. F.
Throckmorton, R. G.
Townshend, Lord C. Calvert, N. Grosvenor, Lord R. Ord, W.
Tynte, C. K. K. Campbell, John
Guise, Sir E. B. Osborne, Lord F. G. Tyrell, c. Canning, Sir S. Harcourt, G. G. V. Paget, Sir C.
Uxbridge, Earl of Carter, J. B. Harvey, D. W. Paget, T.
Venables, Alderman Cavendish, Lord Hawkins, J. H. Palmer, C.
Vere, J. J. H. Cavendish, H. F. C. Heathcote, Sir G. Palmer, C. F. Vernon, Hon. G. J. Cavendish, C. C. Heron, Sir R.
Palmerston, Viscount Vernon, Hon. G. H. Chaytor, W. R. C. Heywood, B.
Payne, Sir P.
Pendarvis, E. W. W. Vincent, Sir F.:
Penlease, J. S. Waithman, Alderman Cockerell, Sir C. Horne, Sir W. Penrhyn, E.
Walrund, B. Colborne, N. W. R. Hoskins, K.
Pepys, C. C.
Warburton, H. Cradock, Sheldon Howard, P. H. Petit, L. H.
Warre, J. A. Crampton, P.C. Howard, Hon. W Petre, Hon. E. Wason, R.
Waterpark, Lord Browne, D.
PLUNKETT, from the Protestant Freemen of Galway Watson, Hon. R. Brownlow, C.
residing in Ballindooley, for the extension of the Galway Webb, Colonel Burke, Sir J.
Franchise to Catholics. For Reform. By Lord NAPIER, Wellesley, Hon. W.L. Callaghan, D.
from Burslem, Staffordshire :-By the Earl of RADNOR,
from Mirfield, Yorkshire:--By the Marquis of DowxWeyland, Major Carew, R. S.
SHIRE, from Lye-in-the-Waste, in Worcestershire:--By Whitbread, W. H. Chapman, M. L.
Lord King, from Wellington, in Somersetshire; and from Whitmore, W. W. Chichester, Sir A. Nuneaton, Warwick ; by the LORD CHANCELLOR, from Wilbraham, G. Clifford, Sir A.
Bradford, in Yorkshire, signed by between 6,000 and 7,000 Wilde, T. Copeland, Alderman
persons:--By Lord King, from the Rate-payers of St.
Pancras, in favour of the Select Vestries Bill; and by the Wilks, J. Doyle, Sir J. M.
Earl of DARTMOUTH, from the Vicar of the same place Williams, W.A. Fitzgibbon, Hon. R. against it. Williams, J.
French, A. Williams, Sir J. H. Grattan, J.
PRESCRIPTION BILL.-Tithes.] Lord Williamson, Sir H. Grattan, H.
King had two Petitions to present on a Willoughby, Sir H. Hill, Lord G. A. different subject from that of the Reform Winnington, Sir T. E. Hill, Lord A.
Bill. Both petitions were in favour of Wood, Ald. Host, Sir J. W.
the Prescription Bill introduced by the Wood, J.
Howard, R. Wood, c.
Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench, Hutchinson, J. H. Wrightson, W. B. Jephson, C.
but which was likely to be strangled in Wrottesley, Sir J. King, Hon. R. this Session as it had been in the last.
SCOTLAND. Killeen, Lord One of the petitions was from the owners Adam, C.
Knox, Colonel and occupiers of lands to the extent of Agnew, Sir A. Lamb, Hon. G.
5,000 acres in the county of Suffolk; the Campbell, W.F. Lambert, J. S.
other from the owners and occupiers of Ferguson, R. Lambert, H.
land in Lakenheath, and they prayed Fergusson, R. C. Leader, N. P. Gillon, W. D. Macnamara, W.
that the Bill might speedily pass, as otherGrant, Right Hon. C. Mullins, F. W.
wise they would be continually harassed Johnston, A.
Musgrave, Sir R. with suits for tithes, as they had recently Johnston, J.
O'Connell, D. been, after an exemption for centuries. Johnstone, J. J. H. O'Connell, M. The Suffolk petitioners stated, that the Kennedy, T.
O'Connor, Don lands which they held had belonged to the Loch, J.
O'Ferrall, R. M. Mackenzie, J. A. S. O'Grady, Hon. S.
priory of the Isle of Ely, and as such had Macleod, R. Ossory, Earl of
been exempted from the payment of tithes; Ross, H.
Parnell, Sir H. and that they had remained exempt for Sinclair, G.
Ponsonby, Hon. G. several centuries, till suits for tithes were Stuart, E. Power, R.
recently commenced against them by the Stewart, Sir M. S. Ruthven, E. S. Dean and Chapter of Ely, who were lords Traill, G.
of the manor, in which lawsuits the peSheil, R. Acheson, Lord Walker, C. A.
titioners had expended 5,0001. The Dean Belfast, Earl of Westepra, Hon. H.
and Chapter had lately granted a new Blackney, W. White, H.
lease to their own steward of the manor, and Boyle, Lord White, S.
by the terms on which it was taken he was Boyle, Hon. J. Wyse, T.
bound to prosecute these suits. The Dean Brabazon, Viscount
TELLERS. and Chapter had also taken fines from Bellew, Sir P.
Littleton, E. J.
them on the renewal of their leases, as if Browne, J. Rice, Hon. T. S.
the land had been exempt from the pay
ment of tithes, and had appointed a Vicar HOUSE OF LORDS,
of the parish, who, as might be expected, Tuesday, October 11, 1831.
was a non-resident and a pluralist. This
disturbance of the ancient order of things, MINUTES.) Bills. Read a third time; Cotton Factories; then, came from the clergy, who professed Petitions presented. By Lord WHARNCLIFFE, from three to be averse to all changes, and to be de
persons of the names of Harrison, Hood, and Jones, com- sirous that everything should remain inplaining of Hardships experienced by them in consequence changed, but who, when their own interests of the Game Laws, and praying for an alteration in them. By the Earl of RODEN, from the Inhabitants of Cole
were concerned, became arch-disturbers raine (Ireland), praying for measures to relieve British Soldiers in Roman Catholic countries from the necessity of joining in Processions contrary to their conscience. By
Lord Ellenborough considered it his duty the Earl of CAMPERDown, from the Protestant Free to call the attention of the House to an exquis of WESTMEATH, from the Landowners and Free with respect to the clergy. The noble Lord men of Galway, residing in Newtownsmith :—By the Mar- pression which the noble Lord had used Catholic Inhabitants of St. Nicholas, Galway :-By Lord I had said that they were the arch-disturbers
of the peace.
when their own interests were concerned, duct has made, in my mind, a consideralthough under other circumstances they able alteration respecting them. I speak were adverse to all change. But the more without any preparation, as I had no idea he saw of the conduct of the clergy, the that any thing would occur to-day to draw more he was convinced there was the the expression of my sentiments from me; grossest injustice in making such a charge but I feel it due to the House, and to that against them. Even they themselves had right reverend bench, at once to state, canlately come forward with measures of im- didly and openly, my feelings. My Lords, provement and amendment. He knew I have always looked at the existence of the abilities and kindness and excellent that body in the House as liable to one obdisposition of his noble friend, but really jection-1 always considered that the right these constant attacks on the clergy had a reverend bench were at all times ready to tendency to detract from the position throw their weight into the scale in favour which his noble friend ought to hold in of the existing Government. I saw them that House, and very much disparaged him. on all occasions acting along with the
Lord Kiny: Ifthe noble Lord had waited Government. I saw them ready and to hear the petition read, he would admit that willing to support every Administration the charge I made was fully borne out by until now; but the late events have led the facts of it, and that in all respects it me to remark what sort of a Government was well founded. The petitioners com- it is, that the right reverend bench of Preplained that the property they held had lates are willing to be attached to. So long been for centuries exempted from tithe, but as the government of the country was arbithat the Dean and Chapter of Ely had in- trary and oppresive, so long do I find the troduced a claim, and subjected them to right reverend Prelates giving it their supgreat and unnecessary litigation. It was port; but, as soon as a liberal Government for that reason I said that the members of produces a measure for the benefit of the the Church, however unwilling they were people at large, and for the extension and to disturb settled institutions, or to agree security of the liberties of the country, so to such a change as the late great mea- soon do I find the right reverend bench desure would have effected, are very ready serting that Administration, and throwing to disturb the settled order of things when all its power into action against it. it is their interest to do so. Such is the The Earl of Carnarvon: My Lords, I rise case in the district from whence the pe- to order; and I ask whether it is consisttition comes; and if the Bill of the noble ent with the order of our proceedings that and learned Lord does not pass this Ses- a noble Lord should, on the presentation sion, and if the clergy persevere in their of a petition, be permitted to arraign the obnoxious claim; I believe they will not be conduct of any noble Lord, or noble Lords, able to resist the odium which in a short for the vote which he or they may have time will be raised generally against tithes. given on another occasion. There would Petitions to lie on the Table.
be an end to all freedom of discussion and Lord King presented the Petition of decision if this were to be allowed. the inhabitants of Knockbreda against the The Lord Chancellor : As it is my payment of tithes.
duty to preserve the order of your Lord. Lord Suffield: My Lords, I feel myself ships' proceedings as far as it is in my called on to make an apology to my noble power, and as an appeal has been made to friend at this side of the House for the re-ihat order, which I feel myself called upon monstrances which, some time ago, I made to decide, I must at once state, that, in my to the course he was pursuing with respect opinion, to refer to any speech made in a to the Church, for his attack on it, and former debate is contrary to the order of the observations with which he accompa- the House; and I say further, that to imnied the presentation of some petitions on pute a motive to the speeches, or to pass the subject of tithes. But I confess, my imputations on the conduct of any noble Lords, that the events of the last few days Lord, is contrary to all usage, and perhave produced a considerable effect on my fectly irregular; and neither here nor mind, and I feel that the conduct of cer- in the other House of Parliament is such tain of the right reverend Prelates in this disorder to be permitted or endured. But House, on a late occasion, has been such I must also be allowed to state, that I did as to call for some observation; and, my not know that my noble friend adopted Lords, I will at once avow, that that con- any such course, and certainly I did not