for the expense was defrayed out of his Majesty's Civil List. It did so happen, that in the case of a Vice-Admiral receiving the post of Equerry to his Majesty, his half-pay exceeded the salary attached to his office, so that he gave up his salary and took his half-pay, by which he received no remuneration for his services about the King; an absurdity so glaring gave rise to the arrangement alluded to. The restriction in the Appropriation Act of 1828, then, would be a saving of some 73,000l. a-year, and for this reason, that naval and military officers upon half-pay now held civil situations amounting to such a sum as that: if they were to receive their half-pay in addition to their civil offices, the country would be burthened for that amount in addition. Committee of Salaries, and with every | But this favour cost the public nothing, disposition to attach weight to his authority, it had come to the determination that it was inexpedient to alter the decision of the previous Committee which had sat in 1828. He had felt it his duty to recommend the fulfilment of the reco.nmendation of that Committee, and he trusted the present Committee would agree with him in sustaining the views which he had stated. Sir Henry Hardinge denied that any such sum as 73,000l. would be saved to the public by the adoption of the proposition. Quite the reverse. If army officers were not employed in the civil service, other gentlemen would be, who would receive the same or higher salaries. There were about 300 officers on half-pay who held civil appointments, and as it was probable two-thirds of these would give up their offices if deprived of their half-pay, how, in such circumstances, could any saving be effected? By a regulation which he had introduced on finding there were abuses relating to the receipt of half-pay, the country was saved no less a sum than 32,000l. a year. The indulgence of 1820 had been granted inadvertently by the House of Commons, but then the services of the army were fresh in their remem-hundreds and thousands a-year. brance. Sir Henry Parnell said, he made no mistake; he had only repeated the Report of the Finance Committee, which said, there would be an annual saving of 41,6827. on the army half-pay, and 31,370l. on the navy, making together about 73,000l. Sir Henry Hardinge asked how it could be explained that half-pay officers holding civil situations would cost the country more than civilians holding such offices? For it was clear, that if officers were to forfeit their half-pay they would not accept such situations. Sir Henry Parnell said, the argument of the right hon. Gentleman was, that the officers now holding civil situations should receive among them 73,000l. more than they had at present. General Phipps said, the question here was, why should any distinction be made in case of holding civil offices between the army and the navy? Mr. Maberly admitted, that Military Officers who had purchased their commissions were certainly entitled to very great consideration, and that the right hon. and gallant Officer had made out a strong case in their favour. He knew that civil servants had retired pensions for abrogated offices while they held situations, particularly in the Treasury, to the amount of He would mention one, that of Mr. F. Brooksbanks, who held three offices, the united salaries of which was 2,1007. per annumand who, at the same time, received a retired allowance of 500l. a-year from another office. Why then not allow the military men to hold civil offices while they continued to enjoy their half pay? He thought that the whole question deserved to go to a Committee for inquiry, in order that substantial justice should be done. Such a Committee should examine into the superannuation and retired allowances of all departments, in order as much as possible to lessen that enormous dead weight to which no other country but this was subject. Mr. Hume admitted, that no distinction should be made between Naval and Military Officers as to holding civil situations while they also received half-pay; but the object of the Finance Committee was, to reduce the public expenditure as much as Sir James Graham said, that there was they could without any detriment to the a different arrangement as to the half-pay public service. The facts that had been between the officers of the army and the submitted to the Finance Committee were navy, and in granting a favour to naval these: that the Navy, Army, and Ordofficers it would merely apply to those in nance cost 13,500,000l.; and the dead the service of his Majesty's household. I weight upon them was 4,794,000l.; mak ing, with the Civil dead weight of 484,000l., Mr. Cutlar Fergusson said, he thought this resolution would be as injurious to the public service as it would bear hard upon individuals. A half-pay officer well calculated to fill an office of trust and confidence with a small salary, was unable to accept of it because he would have to give up his half-pay, so that the office, instead of being held by men of honour and education, went to some person of an inferior description, to the great injury of the public service. Justice was as strongly opposed to the rule as policy. If a person was qualified to discharge the duties of an office, and did discharge them, he ought to receive the emoluments attached to it, without the consideration of any other funds he might be in the receipt of; 73,000l. was certainly a large sum; but the public service might be injured by such economy. Mr. Hume said, that he would relieve the half-pay officers by placing them in active VOL. VIII. {Series} Third service, in preference to young boys, who knew nothing of the hardships of war. If they had pursued such a system since 1815, all the old officers would by this time have been absorbed by the public service. Sir George Clerk said, he had heard with great satisfaction the opinion delivered by the hon. member for Kirkcud bright. It was true, that since 1828 about 7,000l. per annum had been saved to the public in the half-pay of officers holding civil situations; but if the regulation had prevailed previous to that time, few such officers would have accepted situations. Several of the Chief Constables of Ireland were half-pay officers, but none of them would have taken such employments if they must have resigned their half-pay. Why should officers not be capable of holding civil situations as well as other persons? Why should they have no reward for their toils in foreign countries beside a scanty and miserable half-pay? If Naval Officers in the household of his Majesty were also to hold half-pay at the same time, why should not the same privilege be extended to officers in the Board of Ordnance, and other public establishments? Why should the Lords of the Admiralty receive half-pay together with the salaries attached to their civil situations? All he sought was, justice to the different classes of Naval and Military Officers, and he hoped this Committee would not fail to perform their duty. Sir Henry Hardinge said, he would give one instance of the hardship of the regulation now proposed to be enforced. Sir H. Fane held the office of Surveyor-General of the Ordnance, with a salary of 1,2007. a-year; that officer had served upwards of forty years, and had spent 10,0001. upon his commissions, and had received as a reward for his services and his expenses a regiment, which was worth about 1,000l. a-year. This, however, he had to give up on taking a civil situation, and he went through all the drudgery of office for 2001. a-year. It seemed that while the services of the officers of the army were fresh in the recollection of the House, it was willing to grant this indulgence, but in a season of peace the officers were to be deprived of it. He was most anxious to press his opinion upon the Committee, although he would not divide upon the subject. Colonel Fox said, he considered that the right hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the N clause was brought up, he should move an amendment to effect that object. Admiralty, had made a most invidious distinction between the two services. Sir James Graham said, the whole of the Naval half-pay was regulated by the King in Council; that of the Army was subjected to Parliamentary restrictions. He must again repeat, that Naval Officers in the household of his Majesty would cost the public nothing, as they would be paid out of the Civil List; but under the Appropriation Act they could not receive their half-pay, which it was the object of his clause to remedy. If the income of the Civil Office were to fall upon the country he would be one of the first persons to oppose it. Sir George Clerk said, it was for the benefit of Naval Officers that this clause was introduced into the Appropriation Act. Sir Henry Parnell said, his great principle was, never to take money out of the pockets of the public without an evident necessity. He thought in the case before them that necessity did not exist. Mr. Hume said, no information had been afforded on this subject. The clause itself had not been printed. He thought that if his Majesty employed half-pay officers he ought to pay them out of the Civil List. He hoped the right hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Admiralty, proposed to put both services on the same footing. Sir James Graham said, in reply to his hon. friend, that in 1822 an alteration was made in the Appropriation Act, in consequence of an opinion delivered by a Committee, that all officers in the receipt of half-pay should be permitted to hold civil situations with two exceptions, which were staff appointments and civil situations in the Colonies. The existing regulations, however, operated only upon the Army, the Naval half-pay not being regulated by Act of Parliament. The object now proposed was, to extend to the Navy the exception of which the Army had had the advantage, so far as regarded official situations in his Majesty's household. Mr. Maberly wished the gallant Officer would not propose any such amendment, because he was sure at no distant day the superannuations to the different branches of the public service must come specifically before the notice of this House. Lord Althorp admitted, that the country was equally indebted to the Naval and Army services, and he would be one of the last men to make any invidious distinction between them. Mr. Hume said, he would divide the House rather than allow that any particular favour should be granted to officers, merely because they happened to be in his Majesty's household. Why was not the Appropriation Act, or clause, or by whatever other name it was called, printed like every other which was submitted to the House? Sir George Murray said, that during the time he presided over the Colonial Department, great inconvenience was felt in the Colonies in consequence of Army and Navy Officers being restricted from taking civil offices. They were the class of persons best qualified to fill them, but they in general refused when they found their half-pay must be relinquished. It was a mistaken notion to suppose such a regulation produced any saving to the public service, because, in every instance in which half-pay officers had declined to accept civil offices in the Colonies, other persons must, of course, be appointed, and thus the public had to pay their salaries as well as the officers' half-pay. He wished the defect to be remedied as soon as possible. Sir Henry Hardinge said, any officer would prefer receiving 6s. 6d. half-pay in England, to 7s. 6d. as Barrack-master in the West-Indies. The Government, therefore, had been compelled to appoint persons who were ignorant of the duties, and they could have no security for the honesty of such persons; but with a half-pay officer, if he was guilty of any default, you could appropriate his half pay, or sell his commission if necessary. Several clauses agreed to. The House resumed, and the Report brought up. Sir Henry Hardinge said, he entirely approved of the hon. Baronet's regulation with regard to the Navy; but what he desired was, that the Army should be placed on the same footing as it was between 1822 and 1828. It was the opinion of BANKRUPTCY COURT BILL.] Lord the Committee appointed in that year, Althorp said, that he should move that the that it should be so restored, but in conse- House should go into Committee, pro quence of the early prorogation, the Com-formá, on this Bill; and the discussion of mittee had made no Report. When this the principle of the Bill might be resumed upon the bringing up of the Report. The noble Lord then said, that he should take this opportunity of correcting some misrepresentations which had gone forth to the public with reference to this Bill, and with regard to the noble and learned Lord who had introduced the measure into the other House of Parliament. It had been supposed in that House, that the Bill was to contain a clause providing a retiring pension for his noble and learned friend, the Lord Chancellor, and upon that supposition some strong observations had been made upon that topic in this House. His noble and learned friend, the Lord Chancellor, was at the time absent from town, but, learning the matter through the daily papers, his Lordship immediately wrote to him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to deny positively that it ever had been his intention that any such clause should be introduced into the Bill; and, indeed, no such clause was to be found in the Bill. He should say, in justice to his noble and learned friend, that there existed no man who cared less about money matters. His noble and learned friend certainly was ambitious; but it was an ambition to exert his splendid and powerful talents and abilities for the good of his country. His noble and learned friend had considered that such a clause in this Bill would be inconsistent with its nature, and he had felt hurt that such a statement should have been made. Although this Bill would curtail the emoluments of the Lord Chancellor to the extent of 7,000l. or 8,000l. a-year, yet his noble and learned friend was anxious that it should be carried. Sir Edward Sugden said, that the observations first made by the noble Lord were quite satisfactory to the Gentlemen at his side of the House. Any observations which had been made at his side of the House were dictated by duty, and that fearlessness which he hoped would always be displayed by Gentlemen at both sides of the House when stating their opinions. If the noble and learned Lord felt annoyed, the blame did not rest with his side of the House the blame rested with his injudicious friends at the other side of the House by their suggestions. He (Sir E. Sugden) had no means of knowing the noble and learned Lord's pecuniary motives; but this he would do him the justice to say, that, from his great public services, and his great anxiety to give the public the benefit of his splendid talents, he believed him to be altogether incapable of entertaining a base or sordid motive. Such a clause in such a Bill would have been a most improper thing. When the subject of the emolument to be given to the Lord Chancellor came under the consideration of the House, he would be found to be one of the foremost in support of the just dignity of so high an office. With respect to the Bill itself he would repeat, that he had many and decided objections to it. He admitted that the Bankrupt-laws must be revised, and their administration put upon a different footing, but this Bill would create an expensive and unnecessary office. He had no doubt, that the whole administration of the Bankrupt-laws might be carried on at an expense of less than 10,000l. a-year. The Bill went through a Committee pro formâ. SUGAR REFINING BILL.] Mr. Poulett Thomson moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Sugar Refining Bill. Mr. Keith Douglas regretted that this Bill was persevered in at this period of the Session, and when the sufferings of the West-India planters had been so lamentably increased within the last few weeks. The use of the foreign sugar for refining, by the returns on the Table, showed a tendency to increase rapidly in substitution of the British plantation sugar. It was not right, therefore, to allow it to go to greater extent, before being assured that it was acting fairly, to give this preference to produce which was raised under circumstances so favourable, as to place it beyond the power of our colonists to raise sugar at an equally low rate. The noble Lord had said, that this sugar refinery had long existed, and that, therefore, it could not be attended with any greater inconvenience now than formerly, and that until lately no serious complaints had been made on the subject. The fact was not so; the law had been experimental for two or three years, enacted from year to year, and the constantly increasing importation of foreign sugar now demanded inquiry. The WestIndians, however, asserted that the foreign sugar was brought into the same market, and that by the competition thus created, serious injury was done to them. They stated that an unfair advantage was now given to the cultivator of foreign sugar, and thus an encouragement was held out to the continuation of the foreign Slave- quiry on the subject of the sugar refinery trade. The noble Lord and the Treasury, could by any possibility be satisfactory, in conjunction with the Board of Customs, unless the quantity of sugar necessary to had taken means to institute inquiries produce a certain quantity of refined sugar into frauds that were practised under that could be ascertained, that is, the proporsystem, and which had been matter of tion lost in undergoing the process of recomplaint. Experimental inquiries were fining. By this means they might be able now being carried on in London and Liver- to know by the quantity of sugar in a repool with this view, and this circumstance fined state exported, what quantity of alone, independent of the appointment of foreign sugar was used in the manufacture the Select Committee on the affairs of the of it, and comparing this with the quantity colonies last night, should induce the noble imported, be able to arrive at something Lord to postpone this Bill till he could like a correct result. It was clear, howlegislate on satisfactory grounds. He was ever, that a large capital must be employed convinced that the Committee would be in the experiment; and a large sugarable to come to a determination on the house must be taken for that purpose, and subject in the course of a fortnight; and, it was impossible that any fair experiment under these circumstances, he saw nothing could be made in less than six or twelve unreasonable in the proposition he was months. The public generally were not about to submit to the House. All he interested in this question, nevertheless, a wished to ask at present was, that the great act of injustice would be done to many second reading of the Bill should be post-persons if this Bill was not suffered to pass. poned for a fortnight. This Bill would, even if passed, be but a petty mode of legislation, which could lead to no good, and might produce considerable mischief. He would move as an amendment, that this Bill be read a second time this day fortnight. A great number of merchants trading to Brazil and other places, had sent out directions that cargoes of sugar should be sent to this country, in the full expectation that they would be able to refine in this country for the foreign market. The sugar refiners had embarked capital in a Mr. John Wood was anxious for inquiry, way which would be entirely unproductive because he was sure that that inquiry would if the Bill was not passed into a law. His confirm the views which he had already Majesty's Government gave no pledge to entertained upon this subject. He had renew this Bill; but the Board of Trade, no hostility to the West-India interests, and also the Treasury, told these people but he could not consent to their keeping that there appeared no reason against repossession of the monopoly which they newing this Act on its expiration on the had for years enjoyed in the shape of draw-5th of July, as no intimation had been backs. He believed that the West-India given by the West-Indian body of their planters were,in many cases,suffering great opposition to it. The object of the sugar distress, and he would do all he could to refiners was, to obtain the permission of the alleviate it. That arose, however, in many Legislature that the foreign sugar brought instances, from the heavy mortgages they to this country, on the faith of this underhad to pay, for sums of money borrowed standing, should be refined. The first bill in bad years of the merchants who pur- for allowing foreign sugar to be refined in chased the sugar and other crops; and this country was brought in by Mr. Husthe interest being suffered to accumulate kisson, and had been renewed, year after until the debt became large, the mer-year, without opposition; and it was cerchant then pressed the poor planter for tainly strange that, although the late Gopayment at a time when he knew that he vernment supported and carried this meawas unable to help himself, and compelled sure several times, yet that some of the him to enter into ruinous bargains for the members of the late Cabinet should join sale of his produce: by this means the real the ranks of opposition to this Bill, and exporter shipped his goods home to the support any scheme to retard its progress English market, and pressed the poor and defeat it. No opposition to this meaplanter to the earth. He was anxious to sure would ever have been manifested had afford relief to the West-Indians, but there not been a change of Government, for hardly anything that could be proposed it was not discovered that it could affect would be adequate to the effectual the West-Indians until the present Minisamelioration of their condition. No in-ters came into office. The hon. member |