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TELLER. MELDRUM (E. of Aboyne)
DE DUNSTANVILLE PenshuRST(V.Strangford)
HOPETOUN(E.of Hopetoun) RODNEY
LOFTUS (Marq. of Ely)
LAUDERDALE (E. of LauSALTOUN TWEEDDALE.
RIVERS SHEFFIELD (E.of Sheffield)
Ross (Earl of Glasgow) SOUTHAMPTON CARDIGAN
SALTERSFORD (E. of CourSTUART DE ROTHSAY CARRICK
GRAHAM (D. of Montrose) WIGAN (Earl of Balcarras) WILLOUGHBY DE BROKE Leven and MELVILLE
LEIGHLIN and Ferns LLANDAFF
CLANCARTY (Earl of Clan- PETERBOROUGH LINCOLN
List of the CONTENTS.
GosFORD WESTMEATH GREY
HILLSBOROUGH (Marquis FALKLAND WINCHESTER.
Mount EAGLE (Marq. of PORTLAND ALYANLEY
Rossie (Lord Kinnaird) ForteSCUE DAWNAY (Visc. Downe) RosebeRRY (Earl of Rose- HUNTING DON DE CLIFFORD
SEGRAVE DUCIE SHERBORNE
SOMERHILL (Marquess of St. VINCENT.
CARLTON (E. of Shannon) FINGALL (Earl of Fingall) SUFFIELD
CLIFFORD of Chudleigh
GRANARD (E. of Granard) GOWER
Lovell and HOLLAND Howden
WILLOUGHBY of Eresby (Earl of Egmont) HOWARD DE WALDEN YARBOROUGH.
RANFURLY (Earl of RanHOWARD OF EFFINGHAM
furly) Kenlis (M. of Headfort)
SELSEY KILMARNOCK(E. of Erroll) CHICHESTER.
Member could be found who was conHOUSE OF COMMONS,
stantly obtruding his petitions on Friday, October 7, 1831.
House. If ever a man deserved punishMINUTES.] Bills. Read a second time; Hop Duties: ment it was Mr. Taylor, who had used
Military Accounts (Ireland.) Read a third time; Arms (Ireland.)
every effort to destroy religion and subvert Returns ordered. On the Motion of Colonel Evans, an the morality of the public. The hon. Account of the Customs levied in Rye, Nuthaven, and Member might have selected some better Shoreham, between January, 1814, and December 1831; and an Account of the Tonnage entered in wards and out-object for his sympathy. wards from the said Ports; and an account of the number Mr. Goulburn said, the hon. member of the recruiting districts in the United Kingdom, with the for Preston had asserted, that the ChairExpenses :-On the Motion of Colonel Trench, of all the man of the Court of Sessions was drunk Houses now rented or employed as Public Offices in the when his sentence was pronounced. He, different departments of the State :-On the Motion of Mr. GEORGE LAMB, an account of the Expenses of the
as a Magistrate of Surrey, denied the truth Office of Secretary of Bankrupts, on an average of three of the assertion, but if there was any founyears, ending March, 1830; and an Estimate of the Annual dation whatever for it, the matter ought all the Expenses attached to their department :- On the to have been referred to the Secretary of Motion of Mr. Hume, an account of the Surplus of the State. Sinking Fund to be applied for the reduction of the
Mr. Briscoe said, he had presented a National Debt during the last eight quarters; of the Amounts voted by Parliament for Supply, under the petition from Clapham in reference to Mr. several heads of Service, for each of the three years, 1829, Taylor, but he now understood that pe1830, and 1831; an abstract account of the Receipts and tition was not acknowledged by, and did Disbursements of the Sheriffs and Stewards of Scotland, on account of the Public Service, as passed before the not express the sentiments of the inhabitBarons of Exchequer for each of the three years, 1793, ants. It therefore could only be received 1816, and 1819; for a Copy of all new regulations between 1793, and 1829, authorizing the Payment of Fees to
as the petition of the persons who had Sheriffs , and relating to the administration of Criminal signed it, and he regretted to understand
an account of all Colleges and places for Education; the number of Printing Presses loss of custom in consequence of their
some of them had been threatened with Licensed, and the number of Periodical Publications published under license, or sanctioned in the Territories of having put their name to the petition; which the East India Company in the East Indies :--- On the he considered an unjust and cruel Motion of Sir John HAY, of Sums due to the Excise
perseunder 1th and 6th George 4th, for Spirits produced being cution. With respect to the assertion of short of the charge by quantity, &c.
the hon. member for Preston, that the Petitions presented. By Colonel Evans, from the Finsbury Chairman of the Sessions was drunk when
Union, for a Repeal of the Duties upon Newspapers :-
the sentence was pronounced, he most praying that Persons who sought for admission to the solemnly assured the House there was no Office of Justice of the Peace, might be previously foundation whatever for the assertion. examined as to their ability; from the Union of Bloomsbury, for the Repeal of the Tax upon Newspapers :-By
Petition to lie on the Table. Mr. KEARSLEY, from Wigan, praying that Beer-shops should be closed at nine o'clock at night:-By Sir ROBERT
LICENSED Beer Houses.] Mr. John Inolis, from the Clergy of Southampton, for an Amend.
Wood presented a Petition from the Retail
Brewers and Inhabitants of Preston, prayRELIGIOUS PERSECUTION.) Mr. Hunt ing that Beer-shops should be open during presented a Petition from Mr. Robert the same hours as Public-houses. The Taylor, complaining of ill-treatment in the most mischievous consequences would reGaol of Horsemonger-lane; that he was sult from allowing Public-houses to be denied the use of his books, and was con- kept open at later hours than Beer-shops. fined under the greatest privations, under People who were compelled to depart from which his health had suffered, and was the one went to the other, and drank still suffering, to the imminent danger of spirits instead of Beer. He would, therehis life. The petitioner affirmed that the fore, exert every effort in his power to Chairman of the Sessions was drunk at prevent this partiality being continued by the time of the sentence, and from the in the Bill about to be brought before them quiries he (Mr. Hunt) had made, he had for the amendment of the former Act. He reasons to believe there was some founda- knew instances where gin had been sold tion for the charge. The petitioner con- with impunity at particular hours on cluded by praying for further inquiry into Sunday, while the owner of a beer-shop
was fined for selling beer about the same Mr. Trevor said, that Mr. Taylor was time. He knew that, according to the only suffering under the sentence of a legal strict letter of the law, the Magistrates tribunal, and he regretted that any hon. were compelled to inflict the fine, but that
ment of the Beer Act.
only showed the law was absurd; though Mr. John Wood admitted the great the House was about to commit the still wealth and respectability of the petitioners, greater absurdity of increasing the distinc- but he believed they were deceived by a tions between gin and beer-shops, to the cast-off clerk from the establishment of a advantage of the former. Several of the sugar-refiner. They had no means at clauses in the new Bill were a farago of present of verifying the fact. These basnonsense and absurdity, and were remark- tard sugars had been tried, but it did not able as an instance of the haste and cob- appear that any of them had been entered bling with which Bills were concocted. He for the purpose of cancelling the bonils fully concurred with the prayer of the pe- of the refiner. The main allegation of the titioners.
petition fell to the ground. He knew it Mr. Briscoe said, it was absolutely ne- would be said that molasses with an undue cessary to have some restraint in rural dis- quantity of sugar within it, was imported tricts; but wherever there was a gin-shop to evade the law, as was set forth in this the beer-house ought to be allowed to keep petition, but he believed the truth was, open the longest, as the least evil of the such an article was imported only to avoid two.
the duty on sugar. Complaints had been Mr. Hunt said, he had been requested frequently made against the large drawto support
the prayer of the petition; and backs that were made, but he believed the he most fully concurred with those who West-India planters benefitted most by considered it a most erroneous principle, these drawbacks. To refine sugar was the that gin should be allowed to be sold at work of several months, and he trusted hours when the beer-shops were closed. the House would feel it highly inexpedient He should, therefore, resist the Bill by to throw difficulties in the way of an which such distinctions were to be en advantageous branch of manufacture. forced, by all the means in his power; and Mr. Goulburn was glad to hear the obwould assist his hon. colleague in opposing servations of the hon. Member. The it, by moving an adjournment whenever it question was simply, whether the present was brought forward.
refining system cut up the monopoly which Petition to be printed.
the planters claimed as a right, by allowing
bastard sugar to be made from molasses SUGAR REFINING Bill.] Mr. Goul- by persons who had no bonds to cancel. burn presented a Petition from the West. The present petition brought that question India Planters and Merchants of Liver- completely to issue between the refiners pool, praying inquiry into the propriety of and the West-India planters, and the admitting foreign sugar for the purpose of sooner inquiry was instituted into the being refined in this country. The peti- subject the better, for without such inquiry tioners asserted that it was well known neither of the parties would be satisfied. that the quantity of foreign sugar exported Sir John Newport inquired how it was was by no means so great as ihe quantity the petitioners had not brought their imported, although the law only allowed statement forward at an earlier stage of it to be imported in consideration that an the Bill? equal quantity was exported. This caused Mr. Goulburn had no doubt he should some competition against our own colonial be able to give the right hon. Baronet an sugar in the market, with the monopoly answer on the second reading of the Bill. of which our own planters had been Hat- Petition to be printed. tered, but which there was now strong reason for believing was a delusion, in con- CONSOLIDATED FUND-HALF Par sequence of a new discovery having been or the Army.] Mr. Spring Rice moved made by the means of which molasses the Order of the Day for the House to could be manufactured into refined sugar resolve itself into a Committee on the of an inferior quality. This was sent Consolidated Fund Bill. Order read. abroad, and the foreign sugar refined was On the question that the Speaker do leave retained for home consumption. He had the chair, Mr. Spring Rice moved an seen the article manufactured from molas- instruction to the Committee to receive ses, which had removed all his doubts a clause of Appropriation. upon the subject. He therefore considered House in Committee. the matter well deserving the attention of Sir Henry Hardinge said, that there Government.
was a most invidious clause in the Appropriation Act, which prevented officers in whose services appeared to have been the army receiving their half-pay if they almost forgotten, were neglected, and why accepted any civil appointments; while should a Commissioner of Bankrupts, who officers in the navy were exempted from had only been appointed a few weeks, retire such regulation. He did not blame the for life on a pension of 2001. a year ? right hon. Baronet, the first Lord of the Sir Henry Parnell said, that, simple as Admiralty, for introducing a clause allow these propositions appeared to be, it ing officers holding civil situations about involved the consideration of no less a sum his Majesty to receive their half-pay, but than 73,0001. a year. Up to 1820, the he wished to see the same indulgence law had actually deprived officers in the extended to officers of the army. He receipt of any civil salary of their half-pay. was confident, both as a matter of economy The Act then passed was an innovation, and policy, it would be right to allow hall- and the Finance Committee of 1828 repay officers in the army to fill civil offices commended that the old law should be without mulcting them of their pay. revived. The members of that Committee Before the year 1828, officers in the army were satisfied, from documents laid before were not obliged to give up their half-pay them, that the consequence of acting upon if they filled civil offices; but in that the indulgence of 1820 had been, to put year the Finance Committee recommended the public to the additional expense he that course to be adopted, and an Act was had mentioned. The question did not passed for that purpose. He knew it was turn upon the merits of the officers, but the opinion of Mr. Huskisson and Lord upon the principle of economy, The Palmerston, that an exception ought to report had been drawn up by a Cabinet have been made in favour of officers of the Minister, and had been agreed to by all army holding civil offices in the colonies. the Committee, with one exception; it If a Captain in the army, with 7s. a day said, with reference to this question. The for ball-pay, was appointed a Barrack-half-pay cannot properly be considered as master abroad, at a salary of 7s. 6d. a ' a remuneration for past services, for the day, he was compelled to give up his half-service of a single day gives a claim to it pay; and many officers had refused to
as complete as the service of twenty accept of employment, in consequence of years. That they feel themselves called which the service bad been greatly injured. upon to express the strongest objection to He should move that officers in the army the changes which have of late been made on half-pay be allowed to fill the office of in the rules and conditions under which Magistrates, or any other civil office, half-pay has been received, and that they without being deprived of their half-pay. ' are decidedly of opinion, that the abanHe asked the House whether there was
in allowing the officers of the navy to have more at variance with a due regard to their half-pay, and to fill civil situations, economy than opposed to the very prinwhile the officers of the army were pre- ciple upon which military half-pay was cluded from doing so? Such a course established.' The Committee then added could but be the means of creating un- that the increased charge by altering the founded jealousies in the minds of the law in 1820 had been, 73,0001. a year for members of the two services. Why, he the army and navy, and they further say, would ask, should a Captain in the navy When military men adopt the civil serreceive his pay, and also his salary, if he vice, the Committee conceive they should was appointed to an office in the King's' receive the same remuneration for it as household, while the officer in the army ' civil servants would receive, and no more.' must give up his half-pay? From 1806 Although he admitted that individual to 1828, there was no such limitation, and hardships would result from acting upon the Finance Committee had recommended that recommendation, yet it must be clear, the stopping of the half-pay of officers in that as a question of economy the rule laid the army on their obtaining civil situations, down should not be departed from. The without hearing evidence on the subject, opinion of Mr. Huskisson would be at all and to make the distinction in the two times of value, but it should not govern services was most invidious. Why should the House in a matter of the saving or the civil service be treated with great expenditure of 73,0001. His right hon. liberality while the officers of the army, friend had been fully heard before the