this Court would cost the country nothing. | nor the country generally, would have to But when expense was talked of, they bear any part of the expense of supporting ought to consider for a moment what was a Lord Chancellor. The manner in which the expense of the present unsatisfactory this was proposed to be effected was, to system of administering the Bankrupt-laws, take from the Dead Fund, which was no -it was 71,1891. a-year-so that, upon man's property, a sum of 12,000l. annually, the score of saving expense alone, there in lieu of the fees and of the 5,000l. was a balance in favour of the Court pro- hitherto paid from the Consolidated Fund. posed to be established by this Bill, of no He now came to the 2,0007. a-year which less than 41,9891. a-year. But he was it was proposed to add to the Lord Chandefrauding the Bill of its merits when he cellor's retiring pension. His hon. and descended to these particulars. As his learned friend, the member for Boroughhon. friend, the member for Westminster, bridge, said that he gave no opinion upon too, had well observed, in providing for the that subject. There certainly could be proper administration of justice, every no ground for objecting to it. Every man pound of expense was not of importance, who had any acquaintance with the Court and should, in fact, be regarded only in a of Chancery must be aware, that many secondary point of view. For this mea- serious changes to the prejudice of the sure, however, he might with truth assert, Lord Chancellor had been effected by this that in all its parts, in all its operations, it Bill, and other regulations made which might, without any additional expense, be rendered it fit and proper that the amount brought into use for the benefit of the of his retiring pension should be reconpublic. But, supposing that this were not sidered. He who supposed that the people the case-supposing that it were neces- of England were niggard in rewarding sary to call upon the Consolidated Fund those who faithfully discharged high, and for 10,000l. or 20,000l. a-year, what responsible, and laborious duties, was would that be, compared with the needless mistaken.. They were at all times ready sums which, under the existing system, and willing that such persons should be were annually expended in the Court of amply paid. He wished it to be understood Chancery. He now came to another that he had had no communication whatpoint, upon which his hon. and learned ever with the noble and learned Lord who friend attracted much attention; he alluded now presided in the Court of Chancery, to the patronage which it was contended upon the subject of this Bill-but, at the the Lord Chancellor would gain by this same time, he must do him justice, and Bill. The House was probably aware, must be allowed to say, that, if ever man that the Lord Chancellor at present was deserved well of his country, it was my paid but 5,000l. a-year from the Consoli- Lord Brougham, who, by exertions almost dated Fund-that, undoubtedly, was a superhuman, had got rid of the immense public charge. Then he received from arrear of business which had hitherto been 6,000l. to 7,000l. a-year upon fees, and the curse of the Court of Chancery. There 4,000l. a-year from the House of Lords, was one topic more, and one topic only, with which they had nothing to do. Now, to which his hon. and learned friend had in the first place, upon the subject of fees. adverted, and upon which he would say a Ever since he had had a seat in that House few words. His hon. and learned friend -ever since he had read anything upon had contended that this Bill was framed, the subject-he had always understood it as it would appear, almost for the express to be matter of complaint that any Judge purpose of creating patronage to the Lord should be paid by fees arising from his Chancellor. Those gentlemen little underown Court. At the present time, there- stood the profession of the law who supfore, in conformity with all that had been posed that the greater the value of the said and written upon the subject, it was situation to be given away, the more deintended to abolish that part of his emolu- sirable was the patronage to the person ment which the Lord Chancellor derived who had the disposal of it. A very little from fees, and to substitute another fund examination must serve to convince any from which, by less objectionable means, one that it was not in the power of the he might obtain a sum equal to that which Lord Chancellor, without incurring the he had hitherto derived from fees, and indignation of the public, to make anyfrom the Consolidated Fund; so that, for thing like a jobbing, irregular, or sinister the future, neither the suitors of the Court, appointment to any important judicial Sir Edward Sugden said, he had hoped that his honourable and learned friend would have abstained from introducing the Lord Chancellor personally into this debate, particularly when the subject of it was of a general nature, and affecting Lord Chancellors generally; he thought that his hon. friend would have taken a more fitting occasion to introduce the merits of the present Lord Chancellor to the notice of the House. The few observations which he should make with reference to that noble and learned Lord were only called for by the interference of his hon. friend; and in what he did say, he meant in no manner to be understood as reflecting on the noble and learned Lord, or by any means to disparage him. No man had admired, and did admire, more than he, the learn situation. By constituting a regular Court, | therefore, the Lord Chancellor deprived himself of the power of appointing any other than competent persons to discharge the duties of it. A Commissionership of Bankrupts, on the contrary, was just the species of appointment which might be winked at. It might be made a matter of solicitation, and granted without much consideration as to whether the party seeking for it were competent or not. Mr. Montagu said, that the very day that Lord Erskine received the Seals, he made an application to him for a Commissionership; but, before he was twenty-four hours older, the noble and learned Lord shewed him a list of at least 100 names of persons who had applied to him for the like situation. Did any Gentleman suppose that, in the appointment to a Judge-ing, the talents, and the highly-gifted eloship such a thing could occur, that, where the appointment was to a situation of 5,000l. a-year, such applications would be made. They all knew that it was impossible. But the little snug thing of 4007. a-year came completely within the reach of patronage, and the office of Commissioner of Bankrupts had been a fruitful source of patronage. But the more important the office to which the appointment was to be made, the more was the party appointing bound and fettered by public opinion, and, consequently, the less valuable was the patronage vested in him. It would be impossible for the Lord Chancellor on the solicitation of a Duke to make his younger son a Judge, although he might very easily, and without scruple, make him a Commissioner of Bankrupts. In the appointment to a Judgeship, public opinion must always operate too powerfully to prevent corrupt influence from being exercised. He was not aware that there was any other point on which he had intended to dwell. As far as was in his power, he had followed the course of his hon. and learned friend, and endeavoured to reply to the arguments which were advanced by him. In conclusion, he must express his gratitude to the noble and learned individual who, by his exertions in the Court of Chancery, had "won golden opinions from all sorts of men," for the introduction of this measure; and to declare, that of all reformers in law and equity, none that had ever come under his cognizance could be compared with him. For this reason he would give his hearty and undivided support to the Bill, quence of the Lord Chancellor; but he must say, considering the length of time which the noble and learned Lord had sat in the Court of Chancery, and considering the many and highly important and difficult questions of law which were frequently recurring, he did not think that, sitting so long in the Court as he had, and listening so long to the arguments of Counsel, he could have given that deliberation to them which their due investigation imperatively required. He had not intended to have said a word with reference to the noble Lord, but his hon. and learned friend had forced it on him, for he had taken occasion to praise the noble and learned Lord for that which he thought required greater consideration as to whether it did more evil than good. If the noble Lord would take his advice, he should advise him not to sit so long, but to give more time to quiet deliberation, and in making himself master of the practice of that Court, with which he was necessarily unacquainted, inasmuch as he had practised in a Court altogether dissimilar. His hon. and learned friend had said, that the administration of bankruptcy could not be worse than it was at present, and he went into numerous details to make out that case. He would ask, was there any man who would deny that the present administration of bankruptcy was bad? Was there any man who could deny that it required change and correction? Some of the hon. Gentlemen who supported this Bill seemed to take all the credit of the measure to themselves; they had no right to that merit. The late Administration had determined upon the improvement and correction of the Court of Chancery; and one of the most important branches of that improvement was, the reforming of the administration of bankruptcy. If the late Administration had continued to exist, the administration of bankruptcy would have been reformed and rectified as bills were in preparation for that purpose. It was said that, under the present system, the Lord Chancellor might appoint a young man of one year's standing at the Bar a Commissioner of Bankrupts; but if he did so, it would be a most scandalous thing either for him or for any other Chancellor to do. An objection was raised to the present Commissioners being practising barristers at the same time; but were notRecorders generally practising Barristers? He did not think there was much, if any thing, in that objection. His learned friend objected to the appeal to the Lord Chancellor, under the present system; but surely his learned friend had not studied the Bill very attentively, for that appeal was preserved under it. With regard to filing numerous affidavits upon immaterial or collateral matters, in trying a question of bankruptcy, no man could condemn that abuse more than he did. It was true, he would admit, that there were too many Commissioners for the business they had to do; but was that a reason that this new Court was necessary? There were to be sixteen Commissioners under this new Bill; at present there were seventy. The new Commissioners would saddle the country with an expense to the extent of 14,000l. a-year, and this, too, for the purpose of appointing another set of persons no fitter or more competent than those who at present performed the duties. In the present lists, which were composed of seventy Commissioners, there were to be found sixteen men, as competent as any men that could be brought forward, if not more so; but by the new system, the country would have to pay 14,000l. a-year to get, by some accident, some few persons who might be capable of the duty of the office. The present Administration had come into power upon a declaration of economy: but this did not show them to be sincere in that respect. It might be requisite to reduce the present lists; but why not take from them those persons who were truly competent, and give them the new appointments? He would be bound to say, the business would be as well done by sixteen of them as by any other set of men whatever. He thought that some of the Commissioners ought to be practising Barristers, otherwise they would degenerate in the knowledge of their profession, as being confined to the Bankruptcy Court alone. They could not be aware of the new decisions daily occurring in their profession. There were many good things to be given away by this Bill, and he could not but draw the attention of the House to some of them. He would not go into a consideration of the Registrars, though it appeared that ten were to be appointed under the present Bill, that is, one to each Judge. He supposed that they would be a sort of inferior Commissioners, and under the control of the Judge; but although there were ten Registrars, whose office it would be to perform the duties now performed by the Secretary of Bankrupts; yet that office was also to be retained. He would observe, that the appointment of a practising solicitor to the office of Secretary of Bankrupts was most objectionable. Lord Eldon certainly made such an appointment, so had previous Chancellors; but it was an objectionable practice, and ought to be got rid of. The noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, said, that the time in which a Government of patronage could exist in this country had gone by for ever, but every possible mode had been adopted in the present Bill, of creating patronage. There were to be two Registrars and one Secretary to be appointed to perform the same duties. But whose Secretary was he to be? Was he to be the Secretary to the Lord Chancellor? And if so, was the new Court to be considered as only an appendage of the Court of Chancery? The new Secretary was to have 2007. a-year, whilst the Registrars were to have 8007. each, and the Judges 1,500l. a-year. As to the official assignees, it was hardly possible to estimate their salaries. If he had retired from the profession, he should like nothing better than one of these official assigneeships; for having very little to do, he should be sure of getting a great income. The assignees would get enormous. salaries, and there would be no control over them. If he did not satisfy the House, that there never was any thing so uncalled for as the proposed new Court, he should stand convicted of knowing no more about the Court of Chancery than his hon. and learned friend himself. He would remind the House, that there were twelve Masters in Chancery, who were fully paid, and not too fully employed; but they had a good deal to do in references made to them in bankruptcy matters, which references they were able most satisfactorily to dispose of, and they might dispose of a great deal more. There was the Vice-Chancellor, too, a Judge who was appointed for the particular purpose of assisting the Lord Chancellor in bankruptcy cases. The present Vice-Chancellor had, during his sittings, devoted thirtyfive days to the hearing of bankruptcy cases, and in that period entirely disposed of the whole of them. He had left no arrears in bankruptcy, for, although there were a few cases still set down before him, they could not be called arrears, as they had not been on the paper four months, because he had devoted his holidays to the hearing of bankruptcy cases, and had got through all but those of later growth. This showed that the Vice-Chancellor was fully competent to do the business. The proposition then in support of the present Bill was this-the jurisdiction of the ViceChancellor, who had time and ability to do the business in bankruptcy, was to be taken away, and a new Court was to be established, and paid for out of the public money-out of the "Dead Fund, as it was called, and the Lord Chancellor was to retain the whole of his 7,000l. a-year, without allowing out of it, as Lord Eldon used to do, 2,500l. to the Vice-Chancellor, in part of his salary for assisting him. There happened to be no arrears of bankrupt cases in the Court of Chancery in consequence of the extraordinary exertions of the Vice-Chancellor, who had been able to get rid of all the arrears, and to keep down the number of causes. The Lord Chancellor now said, that the duty should not be performed in this way, but that he would receive the fees, and cease to pay 2,500l. to the Vice-Chancellor for the hearing of bankrupt petitions. He did not believe that the present Lord Chancellor had devoted more than eight or nine days to bankrupt cases. The whole of the jurisdiction of bankrupt cases was undoubtedly in the Keeper of the Great Seal for the time being. At present, all the expense of this part of the administration of the law was defrayed out of the fees paid by the suitors in this Court: but it was proposed, that the expenses of the new Court should be paid by the public, out of what was called the Dead Fund. The income of the Lord Chancellor would be increased very considerably by this Bill. At present, the fees paid in the Court of Chancery on bankrupt cases amounted to rather more than 7,000l. a-year, of which the Lord Chancellor received only 5,000Z. as he had to pay the Vice-Chancellor 2,500l. a-year out of the fund arising from that source. This new Court was to hear all the appeals in bankruptcy now heard by the Vice-Chancellor, although the appeal still remained to the Lord Chancellor. He presumed, under these circumstances, the Lord Chancellor would cease to pay the 2,500l. now received by the ViceChancellor out of the bankrupt fees. He had not made any personal attack upon the Lord Chancellor in the observations he had thought it necessary to make upon the manner in which the business of the Court of Chancery was performed. Nothing he could say would have the effect of lessening that distinguished individual in public estimation; for, however much they might differ in opinion, it was impossible for any one to withhold a tribute of respect to his distinguished talents. The average salary of Lord Lyndhurst during the three years that he held the Great Seal, amounted to 12,7717., and out of this he had to pay the Vice-Chancellor 2,500l. a-year. This left 10,27 11., which was the whole sum he received as Keeper of the Great Seal; but he also received in addition a salary of 4,000l. as Speaker of the House of Lords: this made a total of 14,2711. But if the present Bill should pass into a law, the Lord Chancellor would have 18,000l. a-year, as it was not to be expected that he would continue to pay 2,500l. a-year to the Vice-Chancellor. A Committee of that House had recommended that the salary of the Lord Chancellor should not exceed 14,000l. a-year. The noble and learned Lord, the author of this Bill, computed the income of the Lord Chancellor at 15,000/. a-year,but he (Sir E. Sugden) was prepared to shew that it would amount to considerably more than 18,0007. and this great increase of salary over that received by his predecessors would be attended with a diminution of duties. was ready to admit, that the present Lord Chancellor had devoted a larger portion of his time than his predecessors to sitting in Court, but he doubted whether the public had gained materially by it. At any rate, there was no reason to justify the increase He of the Lord Chancellor's salary to such an enormous amount as 18,000l., and at the same time divesting the Vice-Chancellor of 2,500l. a-year. In addition to this, it should also be recollected, that, by this Bill, the Lord Chancellor saved the charge of the salary for the Secretary of Bankrupts. But the office of Patentee of Bankrupts was to be abolished. This office was now held by Mr. Thurlow, and Mr. Scott, a son of Lord Eldon, had a reversion in it. It had been asserted, that the Lord Chancellor made a great sacrifice by abolishing this office; but how could this be, as he would not have an appointment to this place until after the death of Mr. Thurlow and Mr. Scott, and it was not likely that a vacancy would occur while the noble and learned Lord held the Great Seal. As so much credit was claimed for the abolition of these sinecure offices, he would remind hon. and learned Gentlemen, that there were many sinecure offices attached to the Court of Chancery, which were not to be abolished. Out of some of these, certain portions of the fees were annually paid, the amount of which was not exactly known, but which would go to increase the 18,000l. a-year. In addition to this great augmentation of salary, this Bill would confer on the Lord Chancellor an extent of patronage greater than any his predecessors ever enjoyed. However, he did not believe that the Lord Chancellor would have the official appointment to the places under the new Bill. He was convinced, from the very constitution of this Court, that it would be made a political engine. He was satisfied that a more unwise act had not been committed since the dismissal of the late Lord Chancellor of Ireland, for the purpose of appointing a noble Lord to preside in that Court, or of a more decided political bias. He could not see the shadow of a reason for cutting down the salary of the ViceChancellor to the extent of 2,500l. a-year, when such a material increase was to be made to the income of Lord Chancellor Brougham. The noble Earl at the head of the Administration had said, that he was satisfied he had made a very good bargain, but the Lord Chancellor had certainly made a better bargain. But these were not the grounds which should actuate public men. The present Chancellor had already had a considerable share of patronage considering the short time that he had been in office. No less than six vacancies in the Commissionerships of Bankrupts had been filled up. Lord Lyndhurst told each of the Gentlemen whom he made a Commissioner of Bankrupts, that he must not expect any compensation if a change should be made in the Bankrupt Court, and the office of Commissioner abolished. Lord Brougham made no such limitation, but appointed gentlemen to these offices, without any understanding as to their not having retiring salaries. These Commissioners were to be paid 14,000l. a-year for retiring salaries, when there existed not the least necessity that they should retire. But, independent of the patronage of the appointment to these lucrative offices, which were more than fifty in number, was the House aware that the appointments were to be made, and the salaries to commence immediately on the passing of this Bill, although the duties of these Judges and other officers, were not to commence until some time after the beginning of the new year? The noble Lord opposite said, that the days of patronage had gone by; but could a proposition of this nature be designated in any other way than as gross patronage and jobbing? He would read the last clause of this Bill, which would render the nature of his objection obvious. And be it enacted, that this Act shall commence, and take effect from and after the passing thereof, as to the appointment of the Judges and other officers hereby authorised, and as to all other matters and things, from and after the 11th day of January next.' From this it appeared that these gentlemen would receive their salaries from the day of their appointment, which would take place immediately, although the Bill did not come into operation until the 11th of January. What a large sum would the salaries of the Judges, Registrars, and other officers of this Court amount to, which must be paid by the public, until the duties of their office commenced! What an opportunity had the Lord Chancellor to give a portion of the bankruptcy business to the Masters in Chancery! for nobody would say that they were now overburthened with the duties they had to perform; but then, if this were done, the fees which would be paid under the new system would go to other persons. The Chief Justice of this new Court was to have 3,000l. a-year, and the three Puisne Judges 2,500l. a-year each. These Judges would have little or nothing |