on the other side of the House had had reference to the salaries-the suitors had not been consulted as to the abolition of this Court-and not a word had been said as to the questions of importance decided in this Court. These, however, were considerations of at least equal importance, when they were discussing a measure as to the constitution of a Court of Justice. The noble Lord proposed to throw all the additional duties on the Judges of the Court of Session in Scotland; but it was not more than an act of justice to them if they gave to them additional duties to perform, to give them increased salaries; and he would here take the opportunity of referring to a subject not immediately before the House. In 1825 an increase was made to the salaries of the Judges in England, but nothing was done for the Scotch Judges. In 1827, on the motion of Lord Goderich, who was then Chancellor of the Exchequer, relative to the abolition of the Scotch Jury Court, some allusion was made to this subject, but the matter was not persisted in. The question was deferred in consequence of some slight difficulties, and was not afterwards taken up. He trusted, however, that the noble Lord would take the subject into consideration, and would, on an early day, bring forward a motion for the purpose of increasing the salaries of the Scotch Judges. The hon. and learned Gentleman said, that the House could not refuse to give Mr. Abercromby a retiring salary of 2,000l. a-year for abandoning his professional business, for he could not as a Privy Councillor, return to the Bar. He was not aware that Mr. Abercromby had an extensive business at the bar, and did not object to his having a retiring salary; but he protested against the mode in which this measure had been brought forward and was persisted in. He well recollected the outcry hon. Gentlemen opposite made to the pensions allowed to Mr. Dundas and Mr. Bathurst, when they retired from the Victualling and Navy Board, for the purpose of an important

Bill; he recollected that the Lord Chief Baron was to be one of the departmental Gentlemen for the Reform Bill. It was, therefore desirable to relieve that learned and able Judge from his other duties, and also to settle a comfortable salary upon him, before they sent him on his riding commission over the country. Considerable discretionary power was allowed to this Court in the administration of the revenue laws, and it was obviously a power upon which it was necessary to exercise great judgment; before, therefore, they abolished the Court, they ought to take effectual steps to prevent the administration of the law being affected by it. The noble Lord must recollect the celebrated motion of the present Lord Chancellor, then Mr. Brougham, with reference to the administration of the revenue laws which would go a considerable way in opposition to the present measure. He perfectly agreed that one of the Judges might be taken from the Court of Session to try these cases, but he denied the expediency of doing so. His decided opinion was, that the present measure was nothing but a job, and he would point out some few particulars to the House, which would induce them to agree with him. The case of the Welsh Judges had been referred to, but it must be remembered that that was a decided improvement in the administration of the law, which the country absolutely called for; and those Judges recently appointed were not pensioned off. In this case, however, without any apparent reason, a reduction was to be made nominally, but the public were to be charged with three-fourths of the retiring salaries of the Judges. The Chief Baron was to have half his salary, although he had been scarcely eighteen months in office. Thus with a salary of 2,000l. a-year, the learned Judge would be enabled to travel about as a Parliamentary Commissioner. He did not know whether provision was to be made in the Scotch Reform Bill for the two Puisne Barons of the Scotch Exchequer. If they were not to be inserted in the Scotch Reform Bill, doubt-reduction being made in their departless there was some other snug job in petto for them. The retiring salary, however, of 2,000l. a-year, with nothing to do, would satisfy them doubtless, and especially when accompanied with a hope that they would be partakers in some of the good things bestowed so liberally by the present Government. All that had been said

ments, although there was a positive understanding that they should be called upon to supply the first vacancies that occurred in these Boards. And yet hon. Gentlemen, who cried out so loudly against this clause, voted half his salary to the Lord Chief Baron of Scotland, although he had not been eighteen months

in office. With what pretence could the 4,000l. a-year for doing nothing? Impunoble Lord censure former Administrations tations were cast forth in general terms, with having been guilty of jobs, and and they would always catch a ready making changes purely for the purpose of cheer from some parts of the House; but giving places? He was quite at a loss to when hon. Gentlemen talked of a job, he see how this conduct could be justified; would beg them to recollect, that if the and nothing had been said on this subject Lord Chief Baron had chosen, he might in the least degree approaching to a justi- have gone on pocketing 4,000l. a-year for fication. Whatever was to be done, he his life, The Reform Bill had been hoped that the House would not dwell on brought into this discussion; really, there a mere statement of the number of causes was no subject that could be introduced tried in so many years, and proceed to to the House with which the Reform Bill abolish this Court, without taking into con- was not mixed up, and on which the Resideration the important duties which it presentatives of schedule A were not ready had to perform, more especially when a to set up a hearty cheer against some one large majority of the Gentlemen present connected with the Reform Bill. So it had not even read the Bill, and very few was on this occasion-because the Chief had stopped to inquire what was the Baron of Scotland was one of the Comnature of that Court. It had been said, missioners named in the Reform Bill, hon. that the situation was irksome to the Lord Gentlemen believed that this Bill was Chief Baron, on account of the trifling brought in for the purpose of enabling duties he had to perform; but the question him, the Lord Chief Baron, to travel about was, whether it was better to have 4,000l. the country to execute the duties imposed a-year for doing something, or to have upon him by that Bill, Could any one 2,000, a-year for doing nothing at all. seriously pretend to say that this Bill was He trusted that the House would have necessary, even if such a purpose was in some inquiry instituted before it proceed- contemplation, which it was almost unneed to abolish an ancient Court, and that it cessary to deny? The Lord Chief Baron would not rest on the statement which had might, if he had chosen, have transacted been made at that hour of the night; and the whole of his duties under the Reform at the very conclusion of the Session pass Bill, and still have kept his office, and a measure of such very great importance. pocketed the whole of his salary. His The Attorney General thought, that it late right hon. friend, Sir Samue Shepwas a very singular charge to make against herd, a most excellent and much-esteemed his Majesty's Government, that this Bill man, was not prevented, by his duties as had been hurried. It had been in the Lord Chief Baron, from attending here; hands of hon. Members ever since the but, on the contrary, they had the plea15th of August, and the learned Lord sure of seeing him here in London ten Advocate of Scotland had always been months out of the year? The Lord Chief able and willing to give every information Baron Abercromby might have pursued which might be required of him. Hon. just the same course with regard to his Gentlemen talked of inquiry: this subject duties as a Commissioner under the Reform had been inquired into, and had been put Bill. His right hon. friend was looking off for the very purpose of inquiry. No- at a document he held in his hand; he body had ventured to deny the facts might refer to that Report, but he would which they had asserted; it certainly recollect that that Report stated that all would be most extraordinary, if they had the five Judges were necessary, of the mis-stated the quantity of business in this correctness of which, by-the-bye, they Court, that some Gentlemen did not pro- had now some means of judging. A subduce returns to shew their mistake. If sequent Commission of Inquiry thought the right hon. Baronet had stated to the that four would do, and, particularly, House, last year, the facts which were now that English Barons were not necessary. brought forward, it would have been quite That was the Report of the Committee impossible to have preserved this Court. appointed to inquire into jobs; but, instead Talk of the abolition of this Court being a of the "job" being put down, it was said, job; really he never heard such abusive even at that time of day, "Why, really language. A job-why, if the Lord it is quite impossible to do with less than Chief Baron of Scotland wanted a five; we must have five; to abolish them job, could he have a better one than would lead the lieges of Scotland to think

that their interests were to be neglected, | exist for any length of time. The arguand that their institutions were to be cut ments which had been used on the other down." The hon. member for Middlesex side went absolutely in favour of proceedsaid that one Court was to be established, ing with this Bill.

with the view presumed by the hon. and learned Gentleman opposite, because, if his Majesty's Ministers supposed they could give relief, it would not have been their duty to move for the appointment of this Committee at all, but to have been pre

and one was to be abolished; "Well, Mr. Pringle moved that the Debate be then," said he, "let the Judge who pre-adjourned. There were many Scotch sided in the Court which is to be abolish- Members anxious to express their opinions ed, preside in the new one which is to be upon this subject, and the discussion could established. The Judge who is appointed not be conducted in a satisfactory manner certainly must have no other duties to at that hour of the night. attend to, because the proposed Bank- Debate adjourned. ruptcy Court will be always sitting, and always employed." This might be a very WEST INDIA INTEREST.] Mr. Pougood suggestion. It might be remembered lett Thomson said, that in rising to move that when he (the Attorney General) for the appointment of a Committee to stated that a learned Judge in Westmin- inquire into the state of the West-India ster-hall, of great experience and ability, Colonies, it would not be necessary for might be prevailed upon to preside in him to trespass for more than a very few the new Court, he did not say that the moments on the attention of the House, fact was certain; he merely held out a in stating very briefly the object of that hope that he might be induced to do so. Committee. Although that Committee He might be disappointed, and, in that would have for its object an inquiry into case, he quite agreed with his hon. friend, the cause of the present distress, his Mathat no better individual could be appoint-jesty's Government could not propose it ed as the head of that Court than the Lord Chief Baron, and he should be most happy to effect a saving of 2,000l. a-year. With regard to what was stated as to compounding penalties, it was quite certain that the people of England could not endure it if these penalties were to be en-pared to offer some specific remedy for the forced to anything like the extent of the power which was placed in the hands of the Crown. He trusted that they should see the revenue cases in England very much reduced in number. The right hon. Baronet condemned the Board being allowed a fixed salary instead of their being paid in proportion to the duties they discharged. In answer to that observation he would beg to say, that the Solicitor to the Customs was paid by a fixed salary. The Solicitor to the Excise was, until within a year or two, paid in that way, but it had latterly been found that the business of the Court of Exchequer had diminished to a very considerable extent. Indeed, they had heard a great deal of the judicial duties of the Court of Exchequer, but they were nowhere to be found. With regard to the antiquity of the Court, that certainly could be no argument in its favour, because they could not refer much further back than the Union. He was quite ready to admit that Judges in Scotland had a right to be placed on the same footing as Eng-mittee appointed. At a subsequent period, lish Judges, but let not a Court be continued for no purpose, when it was evident that, in the ordinary course, it could not

distress. The Ministers, however, had not been able, from the consideration they had given this subject, to suggest any plan by which that relief could be afforded. It would be in the recollection of the House, that at the end of the last Session of Parliament, a Committee was talked of in that House, but, at the request of the West-India body, was not appointed. Ministers felt it their duty to institute an inquiry, and the result of it was communicated to the West-India body, and to this House, but it was not such as to place it in their power to offer any specific measure to the consideration of the House. At that time, at meetings which took place with the West-India body, it was proposed to them on the part of the Government, that they should consent to the appointment of a Committee to take into consideration the general causes of the distress which existed; that proposal was rejected by them, and they distinctly admitted that they did not wish to have any such Com

however, a Committee was moved for by the hon. member for Kirkcudbright, with the view of inquiring into the statement of

facts made on the part of the West Indies. | to which it might lead were of great imOn a late occasion, however, it was pro-portance; and, though he felt most anxious posed that a Committee should be ap-in respect of the subject before the House, pointed for the purpose of taking into con- he was so fatigued, both in body and mind, sideration the commercial state of the as to be utterly unable to enter into the West-India body; no opinion was offered question. He could not, however, conon the part of the West-India body, but it ceal his surprise at the circumstance of certainly did appear to him to meet with the right hon. Gentleman having thought a great deal of favour from several hon. it right, after repeated postponements, Gentlemen who spoke on the subject, who evening after evening, to bring forward, at appeared anxious that that course should that hour of the night, a question which, be adopted, and it consequently became whatever might be its results to the interhis duty to give notice of the intention of ests of a large body of this country, must his Majesty's Government in this respect. deeply and materially affect their comforts It was proposed that this Committee and feelings. In the first instance, they should inquire-if the House would con- had been called upon to decide a measure sent to its appointment-simply into the with respect to the sugar-refiners. Great commercial state of the West Indies, doubts were entertained by several parties keeping entirely distinct from that inquiry, interested as to the working of that meathe whole question relating to the political sure, and he should have stated some state of the West Indies, and the relation doubts of that description, if he could have between master and slave. The cause of found an opportunity of presenting to the the distresswhich existed had been too much House a petition with which he had been noticed, and too fully discussed, to require intrusted by a most respectable body of any further observations now. By making merchants in the great and important every possible inquiry, they had ascertain town of Liverpool; other subjects, howed one of the causes of that distress, with- ever, which had occupied the attention of out, however, being able to suggest a the House had prevented him from doing remedy. Complaints were constantly so. But would this Committee be efficient made on the part of the West-India body, to answer the purposes for which it was inthat no further steps were taken for their tended? It would not; because the delay relief, and as Ministers could suggest none that would be occasioned by such an inwhich would not involve general interests, quiry would be so great, that it would be which they were bound to respect and impossible to take any measure for some consider, they came before the House to time after that Committee had been apask for the appointment of a Committee. pointed. He would not say what motives This step must necessarily satisfy all had actuated the right hon. Gentleman. parties, inasmuch as it must either go far opposite, in refusing the appointment of to prove that the view of Ministers was a Committee when it was applied for, and correct, and that no remedy could be might have been effective. It was said, found, or be the means of discovering that his Majesty's Government were willsome hitherto unknown mode of relief, at ing to grant an inquiry into the comwhich no one would more sincerely rejoice mercial state of the West-India colonies. than his Majesty's Ministers. He should Could any man believe, that at this period confine the objects of the Committee, as of the Session there could be time to effect formerly, to an inquiry into the commer- an adjustment between two contending incial state of the West Indies, and being quite terests to make any useful inquiry into the sure that on the part of those connected general state of the commercial interests with the West-India interest no objection of the West-India colonies, or to adopt would be made, he hoped that Gentlemen any measure for their relief? unconnected with the colonies would not right hon. Gentleman could not suppose throw any difficulties in his way. He it possible; he must know, that before begged to move that a Select Committee that Committee could have before it the be appointed to inquire into the commer- evidence on which it would be necessary cial state of the West-India colonies, and to make up its mind, the period would to report their observations and opinion arrive at which the House would have adthereupon to the House. journed. The Committee would have met once or twice; and that would have been the only progress made in the inquiry into

Mr. Goulburn said, this discussion was one of great moment, and the consequences

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sition to meet them fairly and honestly. It was extremely difficult for the former Government to bring forward this question, and so it was for the present; not so much in respect of removing the distress, as in removing those party feelings which interposed and mixed themselves up with the question. The late Government were disposed to accede to a proposition that was made to them to refer to the House of Lords the question of the whole state of society in the West Indies, in order that the public might be informed of the real situation of these colonies-information which might have the effect of doing away with a great deal of the existing feeling on the subject. The matter had been postponed by his Majesty's Government from time to time; but he would put it to the hon. Gentleman, whether, if he really wished to improve the condition of these interests, the Government had not better allow the question to come before the House of Lords, where unfair prejudices might, by investigation, be removed, and this House be placed in a situation to meet fairly the commercial difficulties that attended the question?

West-Indian affairs. This Motion was | It was true there were great difficulties in either an absolute delusion, or Government this case, and there might be every dispomust have some object in view in adopting this course of proceeding. The right hon. Gentleman said, that if he were prepared to suggest a mode of relief, he would not now ask for the appointment of a Committee. Very likely not; but he did not come down to that House to move for a Committee of this kind, unprepared with a general view of the course which the inquiry was to take, and what was, in his opinion, likely to be the result of it. On a motion like this, they had a right to hear some grounds of justification, and a general view of the case. Whatever might be the views of the right hon. Gentleman, this would be considered by all parties interested as a gross delusion, and as a mode of getting rid, for the moment, of the troublesome and embarrassing questions attending an investigation of the case of this suffering part of the community, who would now add to all those feelings of mental anxiety to which the commercial part of this country must be exposed, the greater disappointment to find, that instead of a fair and honest compliance upon points in which they were deeply interested, the House was about to proceed in this way, without inquiry, and upon party interests. He would oppose any motion that his Majesty's Government might think necessary for the relief of this portion of the community, brought forward at that hour of the morning.

Lord Althorp said, the hon. Gentleman assumed, that because they were anxious to proceed with this subject to-night, therefore the Session was near a close. He hoped it was not. But even supposing the hon. Gentleman to be right, his experience of the business of Parliament must convince him of the advantage which would arise from the appointment of this Committee. Therefore, in proposing it, and pressing it upon the adoption of the House that night, they were not guilty of the delusion which the honurable Gentleman attributed to them. Every body must admit the distress of the West-India colonies. hon. Gentleman said, that the reason why they had not proposed a remedy was, because they were actuated by party feeling. Such an accusation ought not to come from the other side of the House. When he

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Mr. Keith Douglas wished to state, that the opposition he made was grounded on this fact that the subject had not been fully argued with regard to the causes of the distress under which the West-India interests laboured. No man who had looked into this subject with any degree of attention, could fail to be conscious of the difficulties under which those interests laboured. What he proposed to do was this-when that House resolved itself into a Committee to move certain resolutions indicative of the state of distress which existed. He could not refrain from say-proposed this Committee he did so with the ing, that a subject of this importance most sincere views of doing good. ought not to be brought forward at a time like this, when every indication had been given of an approaching termination of the Session; and when, in point of fact, it would seem as if this inquiry were to be instituted by Government, without any serious intention of applying a remedy.

Mr. Irving said, that supposing this Committee to be appointed, its proceedings could not, by possibility, give rise to any benefit to the colonies this year. He agreed, however, with the noble Lord, that its inquiries might ultimately prove advantageous; and therefore, in opposition