be a grocer or a merchant. He is a popular man, and he has to have a highway engineer commissioner who is an engineer, and it costs money to get such a man; whereas we are fortunate in having a skilled engineer at the head of this department.

Col. KUTZ. But I feel that my position is rather comparable to that of a director of public works, and most of the large cities have in addition to an engineer of highways and an engineer in charge of sewers and in charge of water, a director of public works.

Mr. SISSON. He is in charge of everything, just as you are here? Col. KUTZ. Yes. So I feel that his duties are comparable to those of the engineer commissioner, and the engineer of highways has duties and responsibilities that are not dissimilar to those of men filling similar positions in those other cities.

Mr. Sisson. Most of the cities you mentioned have a larger population than Washington.

Col. KUTZ. No; not all of them. For instance, Youngstown, Ohio, has not as large a population.

Mr. SISSON. Yes, Youngstown is smaller than Washington.

Col. KUTZ. Oakland, Calif., is smaller than Washington, and Cincinnati has a little less population than Washington. Pittsburgh has a population of about 580,000.

Mr. DAVIS. Detroit is larger than Washington.

Col. KUTZ. Detroit has nearly a million population. But I think the District of Columbia has been extremely fortunate in being able to retain the services of those experienced men who have been long in the service of the District and who have demonstrated their ability and their worth to the District, and irrespective of whether we return to the prewar scale of prices I think the salaries now paid, $3,000 and $3,300, are very inadequate.

Mr. DAVIS. Do you not think, Mr. Commissioner, that you have a good many assistant engineers? How many have you altogether? Col. KUTZ. Nine in this classification. No, sir: I think we have not more than enough to adequately care for the work there is in that office.

Mr. DAVIS. I think you have more than that there, have you not? You have one at $3,300, five at $2,500, six at $2,000, which makes 12. Then you have three at $1,800.

Col. KUTZ. We have 15, Mr. Chairman. We are not proposing any increase in number, nor are we proposing the transfer to the statutory roll of any of our engineering employees who are on the per diem roll.

Mr. DAVIS. Are any of these carried on the per diem roll now? Col. KUTZ. No, sir; none of these. But we have some assistant angineers on the per diem roll.

Mr. DAVIS. How many?

Col. KUTZ. Three at $6.50 per diem and three at $6 per diem, basic pay.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I see you have an engineer of bridges. Do you need an engineer of bridges?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir; I think we do.

Mr. BUCHANAN. Does he superintend the construction of bridges? Col. KUTZ. The general construction; but the maintenance is the principal thing. We have, large and small, over 100 bridges to

maintain.

Mr. BUCHANAN. The men who look after the streets can not do that? Bridges do not need so much care, except repairs every three or four or five years after they are built. But I suppose this man has other duties to perform.

Col. KUTZ. Yes; he does other work in connection with that office. What he is doing now is the reconstruction of the canal wall along the Chesapeake & Ohio Canal, and the building of a wharf on the water front. He built all three wharves at the fish market. Mr. BUCHAHAN. Of course, that kind of work takes him all the time.

Col. KUTZ. Yes. That brings up the question we raised last year in regard to the jurisdiction over bridges in the District of Columbia. I told you before that the commissioners have charge of all bridges in the District except the Highway Bridge, which is in charge of the officer in charge of public buildings and grounds, and the Aqueduct Bridge, the jurisdiction over which is divided between the Chief of Engineers of the Army and the commissioners; the commissioners having charge of the superstructure and the War Department having charge of the piers of that bridge. The War Department is also building now a bridge to replace the present Aqueduct Bridge. We feel that all the bridge work in the District ought to be consolidated under a single engineer of bridges, because there is a duplication of supervision and organization. We have the larger number of bridges under our supervision. We have the Chain Bridge over the Potomac, the bridges over the Anacostia River, and various other bridges. The viaduct over the railroad tracks, known as the Benning Viaduct, is also included in the bridge department.

Mr. DAVIS. You are asking in this item for an increase from $186,030 to $241,850, which is an increase approximately of $55,000. Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir. The proposed increase amounts to about 29.3 per cent. We have not only tried to make a comparison between similar employees in other cities, but we have tried, in recommending these increases to equalize the salaries as bewteen the various departments. We have compared the salary paid to the assessor, to the auditor, and to the collector with the salaries proposed to be paid in the engineer department and have tried to compare their duties and responsibilities, and the salaries recommended represent the judgment of the commissioners as to the relative responsibilities of the different employees.

CENTRAL GARAGE.

Mr. DAVIS. Under the item for a central garage you are asking for an increase of $500. That is simply to provide for an increase in pay of two employees?

Col. KUTZ. It provides for an increase of of $100 in the pay of the superintendent and an increase of $200 each in the pay of two mechanics and drivers.

Mr. DAVIS. Making an increase of $500 altogether?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir.

MUNICIPAL ARCHITECT'S OFFICE.

Mr. DAVIS. The next item is for the municipal architect's office. Are you asking for any new employees in that office?

Col. KUTZ. I think there is one transfer of a computer, who is now receiving $5.40 a day as a per diem employee, to the statutory roll at $1,800. He is a regular employee and his services are continuous, regardless of the amount of work in hand, and we think he should have that increase.

Mr. DAVIS. There is no other increase included in that item except increases of salaries?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir: We have recommended an increase in the salary of the municipal architect from $3,600 to $4,500. We classed him as equal in importance to the engineer of highways.

Col. KUTZ. I would like to call particular attention to the items for boss carpenter, boss tinner, boss painter, boss plumber, and boss steamfitter. They are now authorized at $1,200, and we are proposing to increase them to $1,800. That is a very large increase, but it is impossible at the present time to employ even a plumber or a carpenter at $1,200, much less a boss plumber or a boss carpenter. As a matter of fact, those positions are now filled by men who are not bosses, or even having the qualities of a carpenter. They are temporary bosses only. The rate of pay for carpenters and mechanics is $7 a day.

Mr. DAVIS. Are you going to change those you already have and get some that you call bosses, who are really bosses in fact?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir; if we are authorized to pay the salary that will command the services of such a man; and we should do that or the position should be abolished.

Mr. DAVIS. Those you now have are on the per diem roll?

Col. KUTZ. We are simply employing those mechanics on the per diem roll, and we have to take a mechanic and put him in charge of the boss, so to speak, because you can not even get a mechanic at $1,200. We are compelled to get along as best we can, but we can not employ bosses at that salary. The bosses we had resigned and took positions as journeymen, because as journeymen they got more money than was authorized for the bosses.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION.

(See p. 170.)

SALARIES.

Mr. DAVIS. Why do you ask for an increase from $30,840 to $39,680 in the item for the Public Utilities Commission? Has the work increased?

Col. Kurz. What we should have done has not been done.

Mr. DAVIS. Why has it not been done?

Col. KUTZ. Insufficient personnel, Mr. Chairman. The properties of the public utilities of the District of Columbia were valued at an expense of $150,000, and the benefits of that valuation will be lost in a few years unless the valuations are kept current. These utilities are adding to their capital investment, many of them at a rate of a million dollars a year, and they are making these increases in accordance with or we assume they are making them in accordance withthe rules and regulations prescribed by the Public Utilities Commission. But we have not had the personnel to check up to see whether they are living up to the regulations. I believe it is false economy to fail to make that check, otherwise in a few years we will be called on to make a revaluation of these utilities.

Mr. DAVIS. How many new employees are you asking for in this item?

Col. KUTZ. Two additional employees, one assistant accountant at $1,800 and a statistical clerk at $1,800.

Mr. DAVIS. And the balance of this increase you ask for is for increases in salaries?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir. The executive secretary's salary we ask to have increased from $4,000 to $4,500, to put him in the same class with the other important heads. You will see that that increase is only $500, whereas we recommend for the engineer of highways an increase of $1,500. The difference is accounted for by the fact that this position was created many years after the other position was created, and Congress then fixed a salary of $4,000, so that it needs. a little increase to bring him up to what we consider proper compensation.

Mr. DAVIS. You want to put them both on a par?

Col. KUTZ. Yes.

Mr. BUCHANAN. It might be better to put them both on a par at $4,000.

Mr. SISSON. Why was it necessary, Mr. Commissioner, to have the utilities of the District valued?

Col. KUTZ. In order to have a basis for fixing rates.

Mr. SISSON. Has not the Supreme Court of the United States decided concerning the Interstate Commerce Commission as well as the utilities commissions within the States, and the authority within the District, that before they could reduce rates the burden was placed upon the rate fixing body to affirmatively show that the rates were not confiscatory, shifting the burden from the party claiming that a rate was confiscatory, from the utility itself to the governmental authority, whether State or national?

The theory upon which we were proceeding was that we would be able, by determining the valuation of the various utilities, and especially the big railway utilities, to get something for the public for the money we expended. Among other things there was an agitation for universal transfers. There were many Members of Congress who wanted universal transfers so that a Government employee living in one part of the city might reach the place of his or her employment by paying only one street car fare. We were given to understand that just as soon as the Public Utilities Commission could value the properties, which would be in six or eight months, we would get the relief we were all seeking. But some years have intervened, of course, one excuse being that the war has changed conditions, and I do not see that the public has gotten anything yet.

How much has been spent on the Public Utilities Commission

since it was created?

Col. KUTZ. About $425,000, I believe.

Mr. SISSON. Something like half a million dollars?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. How much time do you think it will require for this work to be completed?

.

Col. KUTZ. We have completed the valuations, Mr. Sisson.

Mr. SISSON. You have completed the valuations of all the utilities?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. And made your report?

Col. KUTZ. Yes, sir. They were made as of date of 1914, but they were not all completed until September, 1919.

Mr. SISSON. This has resulted in just exactly what many of us always believed it would result in, in absolutely nothing. I think the Supreme Court of the United States committed an unpardonable blunder in shifting the burden.

Col. KUTZ. I can not agree with you as to that, Mr. Sisson, because I think the valuation of the utilities has resulted in very great good to the community.

Mr. SISSON. It has in this, that we used to get six tickets for a quarter and now we are paying 30 cents for four, and we still have to pay 16 cents instead of 10 cents in getting from one portion of the city to another.

Col. KUTZ. But the increases in rates of service are not as great. as the increased cost of rendering that service.

Mr. SISSON. Of course, we have no way of ascertaining that. I know what you are going to say; we have had it up frequently; but I have never seen the street cars as crowded as they are crowded now. You can hardly get in one of these street cars. You can not get a sleeper on a train, and you can not find a seat in a day coach on the railroad. When you run a lot of empty coaches it is almost as expensive as to run filled coaches. The same thing is true on the street cars. What I fear is that when we get these rates up we are going to have a terrible fight to put them down again. I notice in the newspapers that one of the street railway companies now is asking for an increased rate.

Col. KUTZ. We have tried to guard against that by providing in every order for rate increases that unless changed by the commission the rate of the expiration of the fixed period shall automatically revert to the former rate, so that they will not be able to prevent a reduction by means of an injunction.

The only case we have had was in 1917, when we completed the valuation of the property of the Potomac Electric Power Co. and we reduced the rate charged by that company from 10 cents per kilowatt hour to 8 cents per kilowatt hour. The commission was immediately enjoined in the court, and the company since that time has been charging a 10-cent rate, but it has been required by the court to set aside 2 cents of that rate in a fund to be returned to the consumers if the court eventually sustains the commission. And that rate of 8 cents enabled the company to earn a fair return of 6 or 7 per cent on the fair valuation of the property as we had ascertained it up until a short time ago, when the company asked for an increase, and we increased the rate from 8 cents to 84 cents to the private consumer. But the company is still charging 10 cents, under the protection of the courts, and it is now setting aside only 1 cents instead of 2 cents, as originally.

Mr. Sisson. What about the street car utility, in which everybody comes in contact? What is the justification for the increase there? Col. KUTZ. Before the war motormen and conductors were being paid 22 cents an hour, and their pay to-day is 56 cents an hour.