enemies. I would like to be as specific as General Westmoreland was when he says that our Achilles heel is our resolve. Mr. WHITENER. You know, if I tried to take some paint or crayons today and draw the American flag, myself with my limited talent, somebody might say I was desecrating it. I could not make it look anything like the flag. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Justice, on page 5 of your statement you make reference to Senator McGovern and Senator Fulbright and also Senator Clark. We have a little rule over here that we don't refer to people in the other body and they don't refer to us. If they protest to us we may have to take that out of your statement. Mr. MUSMANNO. I assure you that the last thought I would have in mind would be to do or to say anything which would be contrary to your rules. Mr. ROGERS. We are controlled by the rules of the House and the rules of the House prohibit Members from referring Mr. MUSMANNO. I thought what I said was relevant because of what the General said. After all he did speak to both Houses of Congress. Mr. ROGERS. Thank you. We appreciate your coming before the committee. With that you may be excused to get back to the great State of Pennsylvania and proceed as a judge and not as an advocate. Mr. MUSMANNO. Correct. I thank you very, very much, each and everyone of you. Mr. ROGERS. At this point in the record we will place statements from the Honorable Robert J. Corbett, Member from the State of Pennsylvania, also the Honorable Odin Langen, a Member from the State of Minnesota, and our own member of the Judiciary Committee, the Honorable Edwin E. Willis, U.S. Representative from Louisiana (The statements follow :) STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT J. CORBETT, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE Mr. Chairman, I was very pleased to learn that your Subcommittee has decided to open hearings on the many bills introduced to punish those guilty of desecrating the American flag. I introduced such a bill in the 89th Congress and reintroduced it in the 90th Congress as H.R. 416. A Federal anti-desecration law is necessary and desirable. Decent, patriotic citizens have been outraged by recent incidents of burning, spitting on, and stomping on our national symbol. State laws vary greatly and few of them provide for adequate penalties. At this point I should like to insert the statement adopted by the House Republican Policy Committee at its meeting May 2, 1967 in support of legislation to prohibit desecration of the flag: "The House Republican Policy Committee urges the prompt enactment of legislation that would prohibit the deliberate and defiant desecration of the American Flag. "It is strange indeed to see on the same day in the same newspapers, pictures of American young men facing danger and death in Vietnam and pictures of other American young men burning their nation's flag in the safety of an American park. It has been clearly established that freedom of speech does not protect a person who cries "fire" in a crowded theatre. Certainly, this concept does not protect those who would contemptuously set fire to the American Flag. "All can agree that it is a ridiculous and untenable situation when law enforcement officers must stand idly by while the Flag is being burned, unable to arrest the demonstrators unless they step on the grass or litter the premises with the burned remnants of the Flag. "One of the greatest strengths of this nation is the right of dissent. This right was established by our Founding Fathers and must remain inviolate. However, the right of dissent from particular policies or with particular individuals never was intended to sanction the desecration of the American Flag. This Star Spangled Banner is the symbol of our national heritage and unites all Americans in their allegiance 'to the Republic for which it stands.'" So I urge that we get on with the business. Report the best possible bill out of your Subcommittee. Get it through the full committee and the Rules Committee promptly. Then we can pass it in the House and the Senate. It is time for action. Thank you and God speed. STATEMENT OF HON. ODIN LANGEN, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to have the privilege of submitting a statement in behalf of my bill, H.R. 3925, to prohibit mutilation and desecration of the national flag. There is widespread public resentment against recent flag-burning and flagmarring incidents. In fact, the burning of our national flag at "peace" demonstrations last month in New York should be reason enough for Federal legislation to prohibit such shameful and despicable incidents. Accordingly, we must deter and punish any further efforts to deliberately damage the flag, which is the symbol of our freedom and proud heritage. Also in April, a college instructor in Indiana burned an American flag in class on a dare while denying there was anything unpatriotic about the incident. At a time when American soldiers are engaged in a war halfway around the world, Congress should not hesitate to insure proper respect and protection for our national flag at home. Under my bill, those who mutilate or desecrate the flag would be punished by imprisonment up to five years or a fine up to $10,000, or both. This penalty is the same as that prescribed for draft card burners by a 1965 amendment to the Universal Military Training and Service Act. As further evidence of the need for this legislation, I recall several flag-marring incidents which received nationwide publicity last year: An Illinois school teacher trampled on the flag in front of his class; Demonstrators in Georgia pulled down the flag from courthouse grounds and proceeded to tear it, trample and spit on it; A speaker on a college campus in Indiana spit on the flag, then ripped it into pieces, threw it on the floor and stomped on it; And a New York theater sponsored the burning of the flag on stage. It is my understanding that for the first time since 1927, a House of Representatives subcommittee is holding hearings on legislation to make it a Federal crime to burn or otherwise desecrate the American flag. You are to be commended for holding these hearings, and it is my sincere hope that the Subcommittee and full Committee will approve the strong provisions of my anti-flagabuse bill at the earliest possible time. Again, permit me to thank the Chairman and fellow Subcommittee Members for permitting me to submit this statement in support of H.R. 3925. STATEMENT OF HON. EDWIN E. WILLIS, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I wish to add my voice to the almost deafening chorus of Americans who support the passage of a bill to deal effectively with those who would desecrate or heap contempt upon our flag. The shock and dismay felt by all of us at the recent burning of an American flag in a park of our largest city is inestimable. In fact, the feeling among Mem. bers of Congress and the general public is such that passage of an effective law against the desecration of our flag is mandatory. My bill, H.R. 9624, would deal with whomsoever mutilates, defaces, defiles, defiies, tramples upon or casts contempt, either by word or act, upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States. An individual guilty of the aforementioned word or act could be punished by imprisonment for not more than one year or a fine of not more than $1,000, or both. My bill is similar to other bills introduced by many of our colleagues. I believe it is a reasonable bill that provides a reasonable punishment for those among us who would behave so irresponsibly. Mr. Chairman, never again should any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States be dealt with contemptuously or desecrated publicly without Federal sanctions being applied to those responsible. My bill, and other similar bills, would provide a legal remedy against such acts and would preserve the dignity of our flag which has always been, and is now, the symbol of freedom throughout the world. Therefore, I urge that a favorable report be rendered on this matter. Mr. ROGERS. The committee will meet next at 10 a.m. on Wednesday, May 10, at which time we will hear from Members of Congress, the American Civil Liberties Union, and the American Legion. The committee stands adjourned. (Whereupon, at 3:40 p.m. the committee recessed to reconvene at 10 a.m. Wednesday, May 10, 1967.) H.R. 271, AND SIMILAR BILLS, TO PROHIBIT DESECRATION OF THE FLAG WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 1967 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE No. 4 OF THE The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Byron G. Rogers (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Rogers, Whitener, Conyers, Jacobs, McClory, Wiggins, and Poff. Present also: Benjamin L. Zelenko, counsel, and Donald G. Benn, associate counsel, Mr. ROGERS. The committee will come to order and resume its hearings in connection with certain bills prohibiting desecration of the flag. The first witness is the Honorable Dan Kuykendall, Representative from Tennessee, who is the author of H.R. 8536. Mr. Kuykendall, we are happy to receive you. STATEMENT OF HON. DAN KUYKENDALL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TENNESSEE Mr. KUYKENDALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I appreciate this opportunity to appear before you in support of legislation to punish those who desecrate the flag of the United States. I would like to commend the members of this great committee for making these hearings possible so that the American people and the world will know that the flag burnings, the anti-American riots and demonstrations in which a few malcontents have indulged, do not represent the thinking of the vast majority of our citizens. My bill to prevent desecration of the flag is H.R. 8536. It is tragic, indeed, that Federal legislation is needed to protect the flag of our country. Those Americans who have engaged in trampling the flag, burning it, spitting upon it, fail to realize the significance of their actions. Throughout the history of nations the flag has been the symbol of the principles upon which the particular nation has been founded. The very act of despoiling the flag threatens the foundations upon which the Nation is built. 93 79-543-67- -7 Those who demand the freedom to dissent risk the destruction of the institutions which protect their right to dissent when they tear down respect for the flag and the free institutions for which it stands. The strength of our country cannot be maintained without allegiance to the principles for which we stand and the flag is the banner around which we rally in support of these principles. It has always been so. On every battlefield throughout history, the flag has been a prime target because to destroy the flag was to weaken the morale of the fighting forces. Who among us has not been thrilled at the pictures of American fighting men valiantly risking their lives in battle to save the flag from falling? Which is the greater contribution to the security of freedom: The inspiring photo of the Marines raising the flag on a bloody hill at Iwo Jima, or the shameful pictures of unshaven beatniks burning that same flag in Central Park in New York? Perhaps we would do well to recall the words of Woodrow Wilson in a tribute to the flag: The lines of red are lines of blood, nobly and unselfishly shed by men who loved the liberty of their fellowmen more that they loved their own lives and fortune. God forbid that we should have to use the blood of Americans to freshen the color of the flag. But if it should ever be necessary, the flag will be colored once more, and in being colored, will be glorified and purified. In another stirring message on the flag, Wilson said: This flag, which we honor and under which we serve, is the emblem of our unity, our power, our thought and purpose as a nation. It has no other character than that which we give it from generation to generation. The choices are ours. It floats in majestic silence above the hosts that execute those choices, whether in peace or in war. And yet, though silent, it speaks to us-speaks to us of the past, of the men and women who went before us, and of the records they wrote upon it. We celebrate the day of its birth; and from its birth until now it has witnessed a great history, has floated on high the symbol of great events, of a great plan of life worked out by a great people * * * Woe be to the man or group of men that seeks to stand in our way in this day of high resolution when every principle we hold dearest is to be vindicated and made secure for the salvation of the nation. We are ready to plead at the bar of history, and our flag shall wear a new luster. Once more we shall make good wth our lives and fortunes the great faith to which we were born and a new glory shall shine in the face of our people. Wilson uttered those words in 1917, but they could have been said in New York last month in this year of 1967. The American idea for which the flag so nobly stands has not changed. We stand today, as our forefathers stood in 1776, for the freedom of mankind. We cherish not only our own freedom, but the freedom of those who are enslaved anywhere in the world. That is why we have nearly a half million men in South Vietnam today: to protect the freedom of a people whose land has been invaded. America seeks not a single inch of real estate in Vietnam and those who are leading the anti-American demonstrations here at home and abroad must know this. Our cause today is as it always has been and which is set forth so stirringly in our National Anthem: Then conquer we must when our cause it is just, |