At the present time, this is true to a large extent, but it is not going to be true in the future and unless we realize that some day we are going to need what the sea provides, and start finding out how to get it, we are in trouble.

At the University of Miami, we are committed to other aspects of ocean exploitation in addition to the physical and biological aspects. We have a law school where one of our faculty members is deeply interested in marine law. We have a strong and active ocean engineering program. It is the first ocean engineering training offering master's and Ph. D. degrees.

At Miami we understand that the ocean has to be approached from a multiple point of view. Whether your bill passes or not, we are going to do the things it urges. The advantage of your bill is that it requires the Federal Government to recognize the necessity of doing them and it makes it possible to accelerate this work.

I am very much in favor of your bill and I congratulate you on your foresight in presenting it.

Thank you.

Senator PELL. Thank you very much indeed. I think you have covered in your oral testimony your viewpoints on the different questions that are being exposed for ascertaining the views of our witnesses. I thank you very much coming here.

(The prepared statement of Dr. Idyll follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF CLARENCE P. IDYLL, PROFESSOR OF MARINE BIOLOGY, INSTITUTE OF MARINE SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI

I am Clarence P. Idyll, professor of marine biology, Institute of Marine Science, University of Miami. I have been engaged in marine science, with specialization in fishery science for approximately the last 30 years. During the last 18 years I have been engaged in conducting research in marine fishereis and in the training of marine fishery scientists at the University of Miami.

I wholeheartedly support S. 2439, the National Sea Grant College and Program Act of 1965. This bill is extremely timely, and its enactment would fill a void which exists in the scientific program of the United States, one which must be filled if our Nation is to make full use of the enormous potential which exists in the materials and energy which can be derived from the sea, and if it is to escape the military consequences of imperfect knowledge of the processes of the ocean. The time has come for something new in oceanography, and the implementation of S. 2439 would be an excellent start in achieving this new approach. The new concept is that we must begin to apply the excellent oceanographic research that has been done in the past. There now exists a dangerous gap between pure science in the United States and the application of this for the good of society. Scientific advances and their eventual application for the benefit of mankind all follow much the same pattern. (1) The sequence starts with the curiosity of some scientist about a particular natural phenomenon. This phenomenon may involve the growth of plants, the number of animals in a particular population, the structure of rocks in the mountain range or any of a million other matters. (2) Whatever it is, the next step is a description of the phenomenon. A generation or two ago nearly all of natural science stopped with the description. (3) Now however, the next phase is much more commonly pursued; namely, the understanding of the processes which underlie the phenomenon. Since these processes are usually a combination of biological, chemical, and physical changes, science has become increasingly interdisciplinary and increasingly complex. In addition, mathematics are usually required to describe the proceses which have taken place. Thus, science, which once could be carried on successfully by relatively untrained amateurs, now requires highly trained specialists.

Up to now we have described what is sometimes called pure science, that is, observations and investigations of natural phenomenon which are conducted for no other purpose than to satisfy the curiosity of the scientist involved. No apology needs to be made for this. The intellectual satisfaction of man's divine curiosity is sufficient justification for the lifetime activities of many scientists.

But in a great many cases scientific findings can be put to good use by mankind, to feed or clothe him; to satisfy any of a variety of needs; in general to make his life more pleasant and productive. If this is possible it appears to be highly desirable if not mandatory that science takes the next step in the sequence. This step is to conduct the applied research which translates the findings of pure science into more food, more minerals, more energy, more of all the things that mankind requires. Finally, the results of this applied technology must be demonstrated to the industrial community so that it is adopted by them. This means that the community must be made aware of developments and of their potential. In the United States the sequence of events in oceanographic research has usually stopped at phase three, an understanding of the natural processes. We should now begin much more actively to advance to stage four, the translation of scientific findings into applications for use by mankind.

Undoubtedly one of the compelling reasons why our country has not usually advanced from theoretical oceanography into applied oceanography is that very little need exists here for additional food or minerals or many of the other things which the sea can provide. But others have felt a sharp need for these resources, and the consequence is that some of the other countries of the world have advanced enormously in applying oceanographic knowledge to the welfare of their nations. For example, some of us think that Russia and Japan have advanced so far in applied oceanography as to pose a serious threat to the United States. And even if we do not need what the sea can provide us, in our condition of relative plenty, this situation will not prevail forever. Someday and it may be sooner than we think—even the United States will require additional quantities of food and of the other consumables which can be taken from the sea.

now.

If the United States has an excess of food, Japan has a shortage, especially of proteins. The sharp necessity to feed her large population from a land incapable of producing sufficient protein food has driven Japanese fishing fleets to all the oceans of the world. Much of the enormous expansion of the Japanese fisheries has come within the last decade or so. Prior to World War II Japan was a leading fishing nation of the world, but the level of activity was much lower than it is Since then competition has become stiff, but the Japanese have kept pace, being surpassed only by the amazing rise of Peru. Japanese fishing boats and factory ships are now seen again in the Bering Sea, where their presence raised storms of protest in the United States before World War II. They are seen in the mid-Pacific, where they are fishing pelagic schools of tunas and billfishes and cashing in on the research of the Americans as well as of their own scientists. They are fishing the whole tropical Atlantic from Brazil to West Africa. Their vessels are among the most active in the new rich fisheries in the bight of Africa. They are fishing tuna in the Indian Ocean. They were the first to explore the shrimp fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico and the coast of Texas. In October of 1962 they appeared in the northwest Atlantic, near Newfoundland.

They are fishing off east Africa and off Antarctica. They are successful because they have done what the United States has not done, which is to translate ocean research into practical methods of increasing the catch of oceanic fish. Japan was the leading fishing nation of the world before the Second World War so she had a running start in attaining her present eminence. On the other hand Russia was nowhere in sight as a marine fishing nation at that time, getting most of her fish from fresh water lakes and ponds. Now, a little over two decades after the war, Russia has leaped to the position as the third fishing nation in the world, ahead of the United States by two places. She has gained this position because she recognizes the importance of exploitation of the sea and has adopted as a national policy the necessity of translating pure scientific research in oceanography into industrial application, and because she has implemented this policy by widespread applied research and training. Like the Japanese, the Russians are seen in ships over the world oceans. Their boats appear not individually, not in pairs, but in great fleets. Fine new vessels with the latest equipment for the capture and processing of fish are accompanied by factory ships. No species of fish captured is discarded; no part of any fish caught is wasted. The Soviet vessels are seen in the northeast Atlantic where their drifting net still foul the propellers of American and Canadian vessels. Russian oceanographers in exploratory fishing vessels were the first to work off the rich west African coasts. Russian are fishing off South Africa, in the northeast Pacific, in Antarctica. Russia trawlers are fishing alongside Japanese trawlers in the Bering Sea.

It is of great importance to note in our present context that both Japan and Russia have enormous and highly organized systems of university-level training

and research to back up their expanding world fisheries. Several years ago the U.S.S.R. had 137 separate institutions training fishery scientists and technical workers and conducting basic and applied research, and this number is probably badly outdated. Japan is famous for the high level of fishery training and research in its universities.

If Japan and Russia are the most active nations in pursuing oceanographic research for the benefit of their country, they are not the only ones. Peru has become the leading fishing nation of the world by taking advantage of the rich fish stocks off her coasts, and research has greatly aided the development of these stocks. Such nations as Poland, West Germany, and Korea have expanded their oceanic fisheries with strong support from applied research.

Many vexing questions of the rights of competing nations to exploit the fisheries of the high seas are yet unanswered, but it seems certain that those nations which have established an active fishery will have high preference when a decision is made as to who may fish particular offshore stocks. Whether the United States needs to fish for these stocks at the present time or not, we will certainly need them in the future, and we may find that prior claim has been made to them by other nations more aggressive than ourselves in this area. "Traditional rights." obtained through exploitation of stocks and research performed on them, will be forcefully claimed.

At the present time the universities cannot obtain adequate support for applied research in oceanography. The program of the National Science Foundation and of the other granting agencies either is specifically directed toward basic or medically oriented research, or it involves individual short-term grants. A completely new approach is necessary, whereby agencies such as the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries, whose activties are specifically directed to development of the exploitation of the fish resources of the ocean, are provided the authority and the money to support institutional grants. These grants should be made on long-term bases, and be for the support of whole faculties and programs at selected universities.

For the past several years there has been a strong trend for Government agencies to enter vigorously into oceanographic research. Since funds for the support of this work have been limited, the trend has resulted in many cases in the universities being replaced in this activity. It is vitally necessary that the tempo of oceanographic research should be increased, but it must not take place at the expense of university research or the whole structure will come crashing to the ground.

There is no other source of trained oceanographers except the universities, so it is a basic necessity that they should be made as strong as possible, and be actively encouraged to make their training as thorough and effective as possible. Surely this is so obvious that it hardly requires to be stated, let alone belarbored. But what does need explanation and urging is the concept that in order to be effective in training oceanographers, the universities must be deeply engaged in research. It is sometimes forgotten that a university has a dual role instead of a single one. In addition to the responsibility of training students, it must provide the intellectual atmosphere and opportunity for the conduct of research. Historically, the university was the sole center of investigation and scholarly research, and it was to the university campus that scholars and scientists gravitated to take advantage of the collections of books and the presence of other men with whom they could discuss their work. The function of research has been subordinated in recent years in some universities, especially in this country, where some teachers colleges and other institutions have lost sight of the scholarly tradition of universities in their haste to turn out students. The irony of this is that the students are inevitably more poorly prepared for their role through not having exposure to scholars immersed in research in their field, and consequently abreast of the latest developments and philosophies of their profession.

In some areas of scholarship the universities are still the sole centers of research, and if professors did not carry on scientific inquiries, none would be done. In the field of marine science, and especially of fisheries, this is not the case; if no university research were done in fisheries, the country would still be served by Federal and State agencies. It is not fully clear to me why some areas of research endeavor should be dominated by the universities and why other should be pursued vigorously by Government agencies, but one of the reasons relating to the marine sciences surely is the great cost of many phases of this kind of research. Universities have in many cases started this work, but have eventually been faced with such staggering costs of boats and other necessities

that they have been forced to vacate the field in favor of the Government, whose resources alone are able to bear their magnitude of financial burden.

It is a contradiction of terms to say that the universities can and should restrict themselves to the teaching of marine scientists and not engage in research. A universiy engaged in the training of fishery scientists and oceanographers must give the students not only theoretical training in the classroom, but must allow them to engage in research. And this must not be artificially created problems that have little if any contact with reality, but must be real and vital problems actually being investigated by professional scientists. This means that the university must have its staff engaged in such worthwhile research (which implies that this saff is capable of such work). It also means that we are faced again with the high cost of marine research, and the inability of any university to finance it themselves.

If we are willing to accept this line of argument, it follows that whether the Federal Government looks on the universities as partners in research or only as a source of professionally trained staff for its own and other fishery laboratories, we arrive at the same end: the universities must engage in serious and worthwhile research, and they cannot do this without considerable outside support, probably largely from the Federal Government.

The training of oceanographers and fishery scientists is complex and the application of basic discoveries in oceanography is difficult. This is partly because oceanography is not a science. As a matter of convenience even those of us in the profession tend to speak of the "science of oceanography," knowing full well that it is not a science in the usual sense. This usage is picked up by the public, and it complicates the understanding of the problem of training in oceanography and of research in the field. There is no more a science of oceanography than there is a science of the land. Instead, oceanography is the application of the basic sciences of physics, chemistry, biology, and geology to problems in the ocean. Thus a student of oceanography must have mastered the fundamentals of one or more of these basic sciences before he enters the study of oceanography. This study must therefore be at the graduate level. And it must concentrate heavily on research aspects.

Furthermore oceanography encompasses not only all the basic sciences but other disciplines, such as food technology, engineering, law of the sea, economics, communications. Any institution which hopes to do a useful job of translating pure science into applied science in oceanography must have the capacity to train students in these aspects and to conduct research in them.

It seems to me that Senator Pell's bill, S. 2439 provides an excellent vehicle for achieving the important objectives outlined above. The coucepts that we must translate into practical terms the results of pure research and oceanography, and that we must strengthen the training programs for research scientists are most important. It appears that this can best be accomplished by choosing a small number of centers of excellence: universities with a proven interest in marine science, and possessing in addition departments of law, engineering, and the other associated fields where faculty members are interested in ocean problems. Support should be in the form of continuing program grants, made available for either applied or pure research. These grants should be flexible, and the ground rules should permit development of a core of faculty, with continuing support. The emphasis should be on programs and not on projects. The grants should recognize the great variety of needs of students, and permit the university to fill these needs in the most efficient way. The grants must be of a character which will allow students to become seagoing oceanographers, and hence should include provision for research involving vessels.

The special needs of private institutions like my own must be kept in mind in providing these grants. For example, there is no way of our university supplying matching funds, and there are many other schools in the same position.

Finally, it appears to me that one of the major contributions which the United States can make to the welfare of developing countries is in the training of oceangraphers from those countries. We have had many foreign students at the University of Miami, and have sent them back to their countries to enter the service of departments developing ocean resources. We would like to do this in much increased scale. Provisions should be made in this act for the expanded support of foreign students who come to the United States to study oceanography.

Mr. Chairman, I greatly appreciate the opportunity to testify in favor of this bill. I believe its passage is most important to the future of the United States.

Senator PELL. We will now proceed to our last witness for this morning, Mr. John Perry, the president of the Perry Submarine Builders, West Palm Beach, Fla. ~ I understand that your submarines are called Cubmarines.

Mr. PERRY. Yes.

Senator PELL. I have your statement here and I will ask you to ceed as you will.

STATEMENT OF JOHN H. PERRY, JR., PRESIDENT, PERRY
SUBMARINE BUILDERS, INC., WEST PALM BEACH, FLA.

Mr. PERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

pro

Since Dean Spilhaus has already very ably pointed out to you the problems and potentials of invading the sea, I feel that my contribution here can come from describing what we have accomplished to date in this endeavor and perhaps point out the parallel of these endeavors to the meaningful purposes of the proposed bill S. 2439.

For the past 10 years I have been building small submarines for the purpose of research and doing useful work in the sea. At the time when I began these endeavors, it seemed there was to be little general interest in this area except from a strictly military viewpoint, and there was little, if any, of what might be referred to as a "state of the art." Today, however, it has become obvious to almost everyone that not only does the area beneath the sea make our country more vulnerable than ever before from a military standpoint, but from an economic viewpoint the invasion of this vast unknown is important and absolutely essential. The question then is no longer shall we enter but how, how fast, and how well. The Navy as well as industry have already found out a good many of the problems and have suggested a good many answers. The problem right now is to arrive at the practical aspect of getting into the sea on a daily, routine, economic basis and, sometime in the next few years, live there on a more or less permanent basis.

Currently, we at the Perry Submarine Builders Co. are building our 10th submersible. One of those to be finished this summer is being built on a joint venture with Mr. Edwin Link who has for many years been the country's leading pioneer in man-in-the-sea projects, among which was the first saturation dive in the world and who, 2 years ago, headed the expedition in which Robert Stenuit and Jon Lindbergh lived for 51 hours at a depth of 427 feet. The vehicle we are now building with Mr. Link is designed to have the capability of delivering a work force to any depth on the Continental Shelf, to send two men out and return them to safety. One of our vehicles was used by Oceans Systems, Inc., and the U.S. Navy in the recent search for the H-bomb off the coast of Spain. Another is at work in Kwajalein in the Pacific Ocean on a classified project of the U.S. Army Materiel Command.

Among other projects, we are currently building an underwater laboratory and classroom which I have donated to the Florida Atlantic University at Boca Raton in Palm Beach County, Fla. One of the purposes in making this donation was essentially to accomplish in my own small way what the concept of Senator Pell's bill for sea grant colleges is designed to do.

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