Mr. REID. The monthly report of paid employment as at the end of December 31, 1952, inside Washington, D. C. metropolitan area is furnished for the record:

Monthly report of paid employment, as at Dec. 31, 1952, inside Washington, D. C., metropolitan area

Mr. REID. Data on United States Department of Agriculture paid employees outside the continental United States, as of December 31, 1952 is also available. It includes employees in the Territories and possessions, and those in foreign countries.

Mr. ANDERSEN. I think it would be worthwhile to put that in the record.

30505-53-pt. 1-8

(The statement referred to is as follows:)

Paid employees outside continental United States, as of Dec. 31, 1952

Mr. REID. All those figures are included in the report. The Summary of Employment of December 1952, a copy of which I shall be glad to leave with each of you.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Leave those with the committee.

Mr. REID. I also have a table that gives the distribution of paid employment in the Department of Agriculture from December 31, 1941, to December 31, 1952, adjusted to reflect all major organizational changes which occurred during that period. This table gives the full time, other than full time, the total employment for each of these years for each of the major activities of the Department, that is each of the agencies of the Department.

I have also a copy of a chart which I should be glad to pass to you for your own information, showing the total paid and full-time employment, adjusted quarterly from March 1941 through December 1952. This chart is very similar to the chart that has been presented to you in previous years.

Mr. ROBERTS. This is adjusted for comparability. We have tried to eliminate in this chart the functions and agencies back in past years that are not included in the 1951 and 1952.

Mr. HORAN. Is this the man-years?

Mr. ROBERTS. Full-time employees in December.

Mr. REID. It starts March 1941, but otherwise runs through December 31, 1952.

Mr. HORAN. I am trying to understand the meaning of the two lines.

Mr. REID. The red line is the total paid employment. That includes full-time employment shown in the black line, plus intermittent and part-time employment. The intermittent and part-time employment is mostly seasonal employment; forestry workers, committeemen who work part time a few days out of each month, and similar kinds of personnel.

Mr. HUNTER. What accounts for the peaks?

Mr. REID. That is seasonal employment. Full-time employment means anybody who is employed for a 40-hour week and who works regular 40 hours. It does not mean on an annual basis. He may work for 3 or 4 months, but he is a full-time employee for the time he works.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Are there any further questions of Mr. Reid, gentlemen?

Mr. HORAN. No. I think he has answered most of the questions here, if we digest these charts.

RATE OF PERSONNEL TURNOVER

Mr. REID. I would like to give you our figure on turnover which has continued very high. The turnover rate during the fiscal year ending June 30, 1952, was 47.09.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Tell us what you mean by "turnover rate is 47.09.” Is that in percentage?

Mr. REID. Yes, sir; that is percentage, 47.09 percent.

Mr. ANDERSEN. In what length period?

Mr. REID. Within the year.

Mr. HORAN. Isn't that pretty high?

Mr. REID. Yes, sir, it has been running high and it continues to run high now. Our normal turnover back a year ago has run less than half that.

Mr. ANDERSEN. That, of course, would not apply to the regular establishment of the department, would it, Mr. Reid? You have included all of this?

Mr. REID. It includes a good deal of seasonal labor outside of Washington. The Washington turnover was 23.21.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Even that, in my opinion, is pretty high.

Mr. REID. That is almost 2 percent a month. Outside of Washington it was 51.67 percent.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Why was there such a high turnover rate as 23 percent that you mentioned in the Washington area?

Mr. REID. It has been because of the fact that a number of people who have been coming into government have been able to get salaries outside government that were higher than those in government. Some of them are in there on indefinite and temporary appointments, and their situation is uncertain, so they move out.

Mr. ROBERTS. There is also the fact that in the lower grades, you have a big turnover in the clerical, typing, and stenographic jobsand the turnover figure used would include vacancies on the same job 2, 3, or 4 times in the same year. That is particularly true in the lower grades.

Mr. REID. That happens all the time.

AVERAGE SALARY AND GRADE

Mr. WHITTEN. I was the author of the provision that required each department to report in connection with its appropriation request each year, the average grade and salary; I would like to have a comparison of the average grade and salary for your organization.

Mr. REID. We have a table on that.

Mr. ANDERSEN. I think it should be inserted. (The table referred to is as follows:)

Average salaries and average grades, fiscal years 1952, 1953, and 1954-Summary, by grade classes

Mr. ROBERTS. It shows that for 1953 and 1954, the average grade for the general schedule positions remains the same, and that 1953 and 1954 is one-tenth of one grade above 1952. In other words, the average grade in 1952 on the general schedule was 6.4; in 1953 and 1954 it is 6.5.

Mr. ANDERSEN. When you have this large turnover, how does it happen that the average grade does not show a slight recession instead of a tendency to go up? It would seem to me with so many people coming in, that it would more than offset the raise in grades as we proceed.

Mr. ROBERTS. I don't believe the turnover would affect the average of the grade.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Aren't most of the people, when they do start in Agriculture, started at the bottom?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.

Mr. REID. Lately, with the great deal of turnover, they have not generally started at the bottom. We have a big drift in the Department from defense agencies, from the agencies which have a temporary length of life, into the Department when they could, and of course, they come in at the grade at which they were in the other Government position.

Mr. ANDERSEN. There is a certain group with rights in the Department who are returning to the Department with the closing up of such agencies as OPS.

Mr. REID. Yes.

Mr. ROBERTS. We have quite a number of boys returning who were taken into the service 2 years ago, who were in the draft, enlisted or were Reserve officers.

Mr. ANDERSEN. I think, and I believe Mr. Whitten and Mr. Cannon will agree with me, that we have had too much of a tendency in government toward upgrading. It probably is unintentional, but it is a drift we have to watch.

Mr. WHITTEN. At the time my original provision was written, a study of the Treasury and Commerce Departments showed there had been an average grade increase in World War 2 of two grades, and if that condition existed through the Government during World War 2, more than $1 billion was added each year to the cost of operating the Federal Government. The provision limits promotions and limits the total numbers of permanent employees, and thereby attempts to prevent excessive permanent upgrading. The savings are estimated to be substantial. Each department is required each year to report the average grade and salary, so Congress can take such action as it wishes so far as holding down to these averages.

Mr. ANDERSEN. The Department does keep that in mind, does it not?

Mr. REID. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. The report is submitted periodically as required by law.

Mr. MARSHALL. How much trouble would it cause by your turnover because of employment in the first place under civil-service regulations which have specified unrealistic qualifications for the individual, in applying for the civil-service job?

Mr. REID. I think we have not had too much trouble with that, because our turnover has largely been in the lower grades. It has not been so much in the scientific and technical groups of people, so that we have been able to give examinations as the needs existed for the people it was necessary to bring in, and I do not think that very many people have been kept from qualifying under civil-service examination because of the standards that apply.

Mr. MARSHALL. I think the import of my question was of a little different nature. A person who has passed a civil-service examination with a high rating may not necessarily be in your lower grades an acceptable employee because of the unrealistic qualifications.

Mr. REID. If that person was not, then they would be moved out of performance ratings act as an unsatisfactory employee under the performance ratings.

Mr. ANDERSEN. The committee print carries the average grade and salary for each appropriation, under the table "Obligations by objects." It is my intention, Mr. Roberts, to be quite specific about those particular points as we go through the bill.

Mr. ROBERTS. The figure I am putting in is an over-all total for the Department. Do you want to inquire into individual ones? Mr. ANDERSEN. We will do that as we have the bureaus before us. Are there any more comments?

Mr. REID. No, sir. Thank you.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Thank you, gentlemen. That will conclude our hearing.