PROCESSING OF GUAYULE RUBBER

Mr. SPEH. The crude guayule rubber contains about 20 percent resins. We have developed a laboratory method which we use on a larger than laboratory scale by which we are reducing the 20 percent to 2 percent and we can reduce it still further but we so far have not developed a practical process which will reduce it because, frankly, we have been so busy in trying to provide a sufficient supply for the evaluation tests that we haven't spent as much time on perfecting a method as we probably should. We did not want to go ahead with any of our work until we were assured that we could produce a rubber which would be acceptable.

The same thing holds for the reduction of the insolubles present. We have reduced them from 10 to 5 percent. It would be highly desirable if that could be brought down under 1 percent. I sincerely believe if we can reduce the insolubles down below 1 percent and the resins to about I would say half a percent, we would have a rubber which would meet all the requirements which a natural rubber would have, excepting possibly latex as we are not doing any work on the production of latex from guayule rubber.

POSSIBILITY OF PLANTING SEED NOW IN STORAGE

Mr. WHITTEN. For some 5, 6, 7, 8 years, you have had those seedlings. And the Federal Government has a lot of land. It takes seed a number of years to become plants and you can't get the rubber out unless you have the plant. I still can't see why those seed are not put in the ground somewhere as against being stored in storehouses. We tried to interest the military in planting these seed. We wanted them to use some of the military land for these seed. Then we tried to interest the forestry people in it. What is the latest on why these seed are merely held in storage as against being in the ground and growing into plants? Has anybody taken the initiative in pushing that on through and making them say "No," so it is their responsibility if they don't put it in the ground?

Dr. CLARKSON. There have been no further considerations of that during this year, but based on the investigations that were made a couple of years ago, it was the conclusion of all who were concerned with it in the two departments that the hazards of putting it in the ground seemed to outweigh the hazards of leaving it in storage. We have run into one of those hazards now in Texas with this charcoal rot. We didn't believe as short a time as 2 years ago that it would affect the plantings in dryland areas of Texas, as it has during this drought.

Mr. WHITTEN. How long after you put the seed in the ground before you could hope to have any real quantity of rubber from it?

Dr. CLARKSON. To get full yield from it we figure about 5 years from first planting. There has been some work undertaken to partially harvest it in 2 years to see if the new growth can be reharvested economically, but that work has not progressed far enough to know much about it.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Along that same line, how much do these seeds in storage decrease in fertility each year?

Dr. CLARKSON. Eight thousand pounds, what we call the old seed produced in 1943, is regarded as having a 30-percent germination rate. The new seed that was produced last year and the year before tests 75 percent. It was reduced that much in 10 years.

Mr. ANDERSEN. This 1943 seed today has a fertility rate of only 30 percent. At what point along the line of decrease in fertility do you consider it worthless? If it goes down to 25 or 20 percent, is it worth holding for the future?

Dr. CLARKSON. We would think it is worth holding. It is a matter of adjusting the seeding rate accordingly.

Mr. HORAN. Along that line, do you have any program for surveillance tests on the fertility of the seed and a planting program? Dr. CLARKSON. We have each year a testing of the germination rate to see that our seed is holding up, but we have no plan presently to use any of this stockpile of 28,000 pounds.

Mr. HORAN. We are very much interested in this, Dr. Clarkson, and this subcommittee, I know, would like to get that seed in the ground even with the danger of rots and other menaces, rather than have you take it out of our storage granary and dump it over the hill because it is worthless. We feel that there is available land where it can be planted, public lands. We have got lots of them in southern California and even in Texas where at least you could spread the seed out on the ground even though there is an outside danger that it might not grow.

Dr. CLARKSON. We would think from our experience of the last 2 years that certainly in Texas we would stand a good chance of losing our investment by seeding it.

Mr. HORAN. I am not talking too much about public investment. We have got public lands where very, very inexpensive experiments could be conducted with this guayule because it is indigenous to that area anyhow. Mr. Andersen, Mr. Whitten, and I were somewhat disappointed when we visited the Salinas laboratories. We asked a lot of questions that were not answered. It troubled us tremendously. Mr. WHITTEN. I recall, Mr. Horan, that they pointed out that if somebody would furnish them this $500 to $1,000 an acre land and supply the irrigation free, that they could then make it a competitive commercial crop.

Mr. HORAN. Our reaction to that was not good. We would like to see this seed put out where it first started, that is on pretty arid land, on land that doesn't cost the Government anything. The only cost we would have would be running a disc over it and planting the seed in the proper way. That is the reaction we have. Apparently somebody in the organization, Dr. Clarkson, feels that they have to rent land at a high price and they have to dig a well and they have to install pipes and pumping machinery and they have to go to a lot of expense. That is all right for experimental plots but for going into practical production of guayule or anything else and knowing your economic limits you just can't do that.

Dr. CLARKSON. It was recognized that varieties had to be developed which could be produced without having to be grown in the expensive. irrigated areas of California. While we are hopeful that this backcross with stramonium furnishes such plants, it also has to be disease

resistant. We certainly can't plant it in the dry-land area of Texas unless it is disease resistant, and the hazards in other dry-land areas are in the realm of the unknown to a certain extent.

Mr. HORAN. We are not arguing. We want only to point out that we would rather see it rot in the ground in its proper place than have it rot in the granary.

I had no complaint about what we saw at the experimental mill. I was impressed with the work being done there at Salinas and also the testing laboratory we visited.

POSSIBLE USE OF GUAYULE SHRUB FOR EROSION CONTROL

Mr. MARSHALL. Being almost completely unfamiliar with the plant, would it have any value from a standpoint of erosion control?

Dr. CLARKSON. Dr. Quisenberry will answer that.

Dr. QUISENBERRY. I don't believe so. It is usually grown as a row crop similar to corn. We have the experimental plantings in rows. Usually you have to cultivate it to start with to protect it from weed competition, and, unless you plant it on the contour, I wouldn't think of guayule as an erosion crop. Of course it is primarily a dry land plant.

Mr. MARSHALL. I was thinking in terms of wind erosion and we do in wind erosion plant a number of crops that are cultivated in rows. Dr. QUISENBERRY. It might have some possibilities there, sir, as a control of wind erosion. I was thinking more in terms of water erosion.

Mr. MARSHALL. My thought was, since you are talking about semi arid land, that it was directed toward wind erosion.

Dr. QUISENBERRY. The shrub grows from 3 to 4 feet in height, and is fairly bushy.

Dr. CLARKSON. Rather slow growing.

Mr. MARSHALL. That is all.

NEW GUAYULE HYBRIDS

Mr. HORAN. How about this tree; that is, the new one? They had some trees there which were pointed out to us when we were there. Has that increased in prospect?

Dr. CLARKSON. Yes, it has.

Dr. QUISENBERRY. Possibly when you were at Salinas they showed you the big shrub back of the greenhouse that grew almost as high as the building. That is the one that has been used in crossing. That is the Stramonium plant or species that has been used in these crosses.

EXCHANGE OF AMERICAN SURPLUSES FOR STRATEGIC MATERIALS

Mr. HORAN. There is one question I would like to have either Dr. Clarkson or Mr. Roberts answer. We are under considerable pressure from the agricultural industry to increase our foreign trade. We are up against hard and soft currency and other factors in that field. Personally, I am very much for it. Of course it has always appealed to me. That perhaps at this point if it were possible to have bartered we would be much better off. We know that Russia has bartered her wheat for long-staple Egyptian cotton and has received a value as high as $3.75 a bushel or even higher than that

and trades have occurred between Argentina and other nations at a very high figure per dollar. In the case of strategic materials which we are protecting or want here with this research, why couldn't we barter some of our native surplusses for a stockpile which we are willingly admitting we need because we are doing research here to protect the 12 or 15 elements that we don't produce at home. I would like to have either you or Mr. Roberts reply to that.

Dr. CLARKSON. I don't have the answer.

Mr. ROBERTS. I don't either.

Mr. HORAN. Does anybody?

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. Bates may know more about that than I. Under existing legislation which provides authority for stockpiling, there is authority for barter and there have been some transactions completed where the barter of agricultural commodities has been involved. I believe the actual data regarding those transactions is classified material. If this committee wishes to have some facts presented to it, that might be possible. It would probably be inappropriate to have it in the record. Mr. Bates, do you have anything to add to that?

Mr. BATES. Only that in the case of rubber, we have obtained substantial quantities from Great Britain under the ECA route, that is with counterpart funds whereby

Mr. HORAN. We are trying to get away from that. I think that you, as a taxpayer, know that we are.

We have an investment in most of those counterpart funds ourselves. And on International Wheat Agreement wheat, we know we have 70 cents a bushel in practically every bushel we are supplying. We don't know that we will renew the International Wheat Agreement. We are going to state our case. We have gone down a long ways in our initial approach because we tried to be honest with ourselves. We recognize that we need rubber, we need quinine, 12 or 15 other items that we don't produce at all at home.

Nickel is one of them and the surprising thing is that the countries that are low in wheat products, or low in starch products, are also high in the production of these things we need. Well, why in the name of heaven can't we strike a bargain rather than to go through other countries more adept at trading? Why can't we deal directly with these folks if we can't renew the international agreements? It is the weakness of our bargaining system. We are just hamstrung in these international wheat agreement meetings. We don't know scat compared to England and other nations in international dealing, and yet here we need these things. We are appropriating $600,000. It is not a big amount. I am for it, and I think you understand what I mean. But we have to go to England or have to go to somebody else to make a deal. It is stupid, the things we do. I think you know that, Mr. Bates. You have been close to this. I am not being critical, it is just the way I feel.

Will you please reply to my question as fully and as judiciously as you can. Certainly the press has been filled with everything we have discussed here.

Mr. BATES. I think Mr. Roberts might be the better one on the actual barter problem.

Mr. HORAN. You decide that among yourselves, and if you decide more time is needed be prepared to discuss this matter on the record

insofar as its classification will permit when OFAR appears before the committee. At that time we want to consider the whole question of international trade.

GERMINATION STATUS OF GUAYULE SEED STOCKPILE

Dr. CLARKSON. I would like to make one more comment on the rubber, to say that 18,000 pounds or about three-fourths of our seed supply is fresh seed testing 70 percent germination. The 30 percent germination rate applied to the 10-year-old seed.

Mr. HORAN. Let us get that in the ground if possible. Will you talk to the Munitions Board about that?

Dr. CLARKSON. We will look into it.

Mr. HUNTER. Does the guayule bush deteriorate after 5 years? Is there any age at which it is no longer useful for rubber production purposes?

Dr. CLARKSON. It reaches maximum in rubber content and then tends to become tough and harder and harder to handle in milling and processing.

Mr. HORAN. At what age?

Dr. CLARKSON. After 5 years.

Mr. SPEH. We have extracted rubber from a 12-year-old shrub which is just the same as the other if we remove insolubles.

Mr. HORAN. It is a matter of processing rather than the quality of the rubber.

Mr. BATES. I didn't get the last question before that.

Dr. CLARKSON. The chairman asked us to consider again the matter of putting out the seed on Government land somewhere as a natural living stockpile.

Mr. HORAN. Before it rots.

Dr. CLARKSON. I wondered if you had anything further you wanted to say in regard to that.

Mr. BATES. I think it might be more appropriate for the Department of Agriculture to comment on it but I would say that 2 or 3 years ago we were quite enthusiastic with the idea of seeding this material from airplanes or on semidesert land and getting this living stockpile, but the few experiments that were made along those lines were highly unsuccessful. As I recall the story there was practically no survival.

Mr. HORAN. It was my impression that you could not do it that way. You would have to go out with a tractor and a disc and at least disc it and then spread the seed so you could get it under the ground. That is rather tedious way to do it compared to an airplane, but it could be done. After all, 18,000 pounds of seed isn't too much. It would take some time to do it but you can seed 18,000 pounds of seed in a reasonable time even by that method.

Mr. BATES. It is my impression that as of the moment that is not a proven method of raising guayule shrub because

Mr. HORAN. The guayule shrub was originated out in the desert. Mr. BATES. I am not an expert on this but when we had the seedling program, the conventional method was to start from a seedling bed and then transplant.