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CONTENTS

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POLECAT BENCH UNIT, PICK-SLOAN, MISSOURI RIVER

BASIN PROGRAM, WYOMING

SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1972

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IRRIGATION AND RECLAMATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Powell, Wyo.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 o'clock a.m., the Honorable Abraham Kazen, Jr., presiding.

Mr. KAZEN. The Subcommittee on Irrigation and Reclamation will now come to order.

Ladies and gentlemen, I am Congressman Kazen of the 23d Congressional District of Texas. I have been designated to preside at this hearing by the chairman of the subcommittee, Congressman Harold T. Johnson of California. We are a subcommittee of the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs of the House of Representatives, which has iurisdiction over all legislation affecting the Federal reclamation

program.

Before commencing the hearing, the Chair would like to make a personal note to the effect that we are happy to be in Wyoming and are looking forward to having a profitable, as well as an enjoyable, time here in the Shoshone River Valley.

We are, of course, very happy to be in the district of our distinguished colleague on the committee. Teno Roncalio, your very able Congressman. In a few minutes I will call on the other members of the subcommittee to make whatever statements they might want to.

The rules of the House of Representatives authorizes each committee. or subcommittee to decide for itself the question of live media coverage. It would be the Chair's intention to authorize the taking of still and motion pictures and the use of recording devices during the hearing-so long as such does not interfere with the orderly conduct of the hearing. Do I hear obiection from the committee? Hearing none, it is so ordered.

The Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, under the leadershin of Chairman Wayne N. Aspinall of Colorado, has for many years followed the policy of having field hearings on project authorizations. The wisdom of this policy has been demonstrated many times. It affords the members the opportunity to see, first hand, the setting of the project and to gain a better understanding of what the program will accomplish. It also affords a broader cross section of the community a chance to express itself on behalf of the program, or in opposition to it. as the case may be.

We have a sizable witness list this morning and it will therefore be necessary that we strictly observe the committee 5-minute rule.

This means— -witnesses should hold their statements until they are called to the stand to testify. At that time the statement should be handed to the staff for distribution.

Except for the Bureau of Reclamation witnesses, they are also urged to summarize their testimony orally, particularly if their statement exceeds one page in length. After the hearing has been concluded, spectators are welcome to pick up copies of surplus witness statements as long as there are any left. Normally, we give the press first priority in this regard.

At the conclusion of the hearing, if there is anyone in the audience who would like to make a statement and did not get the opportunity to do so, they may submit such statement in writing, and it will be made a part of the record or file.

At this time, I would like to introduce to you my colleagues on this committee. Of course, on my left is your very able Congressman, and I will leave him for the end to make a wrap-up, if you want to, Teno. On my right is the Honorable Jim Abourezk, your neighbor from the great State of South Dakota. Congressman Abourezk, we are delighted you got here in time, sir. Do you have any statement to make?

Mr. ABOUREZK. Well, only that we just flew over from Rapid City, South Dak., and I have never seen scenery quite like that in my life. There were no clouds, so we flew right by the beautiful mountains. Now I know why Teno is so proud of Wyoming. I would say it was better looking than South Dakota scenery, but I had better not, because I am running for election to the Senate. But, I am very happy to be here and look forward to hearing your testimony.

Mr. KAZEN. The next gentleman on the subcommittee is the Honorable John Melcher whom most of you know. He is your immediate neighbor right across the line in Montana. He is a very able member of this committee. Congressman.

Mr. MELCHER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I notice that my good friend, Congressman Abourezk, almost told the truth. I think before he leaves today he will admit that it is prettier over here than in South Dakota. I can say that without any fear of losing any prestige because, as you know, or perhaps you do not know, I am your neighbor to the north from Montana, and the adjoining congressional district. The Eastern Congressional District is the one I serve in Montana. I want to first of all compliment you people here on this Northwest Community College. I think it is a marvelous institution, I am proud that you people down here so close to us have such a fine institution in Powell.

In general, I favor reclamation projects. I am not overwhelmed by this idea that you might continue to produce too much in agricultural products. I view the extension of reclamation projects, with the accompanying new irrigated land, as a stabilizing force in areas such as we have in your area, and such as we have in many areas of Montana. After all, we know what cattle, sheep, and other types of livestock, need as this is our basic industry both in Montana and Wyoming. We know that occasionally we have droughts, and if it were not for the irrigated land that we have in Montana-and I was sure it is true here, too-the drought years would be terribly devastating to the livestock industry and terribly devastating to the economy of our entire States.

So, having that general concept in mind, and sharing with you an interest in what is good for the entire area, one sees that we are in the same boat in Montana and Wyoming. What works for Wyoming also works for Montana, and we are not in competition with each other; we are allies.

Now, I have looked this morning from the air at the Polecat Bench, and I like the looks of it. I am now very much interested in hearing your views, hearing what you people right here in the area have to tell us. I must leave before we are through, that is likely, but rest assured that I will read the transcript in its entirety so that I can be aware of each of your testimony.

I guess I have another reason for liking to be here. I simply like Teno Roncalio very much. I am delighted to be here in his congressional district. We have had a great opportunity to accomplish things together for the West. At all times I have found your Congressman really a tremendously influential Member of the House of Representatives. I think that you all should keep in mind that the West does not have too much representation in the House of Representatives because we are not very many people with the one-man, one-vote rule that governs the House of Representatives. Of course, it cuts down the percentage of representatives that come from not only rural areas, but particularly from the Western United States. I think you can be proud of Teno Roncalio. I know I am proud to have him as a colleague, and I am very delighted to be with him and with you this morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KAZEN. Thank you, Congressman.

Now, with that statement, I want to call on your Congressman whom I consider one of the most able members of this committee, and frankly it is through his efforts that we are here today. This man is just as tenacious and just as persistent as anyone I have ever known, and he does you credit in representing you in the Congress of the United States.

Congressman, the floor is yours.

Mr. RONCALIO. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you very much for those courteous remarks, and I want to thank my colleague from Montana, John Melcher, sincerely for his fine remarks. We do work hand in hand, all three of us. I would like to see more Members here; but when I realize that on most field hearings, we end up with only two or three Congressmen, we are doing better than the average, with four here today. I am grateful to you for coming, and appreciative of your kind observations.

I hope that all of you before you leave here will get to know the two staffers of the full committee of the House Interior Committee; and if I may, Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce Jim Casey to my immediate left. He is an old irrigation and reclamation man, and he probably knows more about irrigation and reclamation States than anybody in Washington, D.C., except when some of the keymen come in from out in the field, like Harold Aldrich and others.

Also, we have Charles Leppert, the minority staff, who represents the Republican Party here today; and I want to tell you today that this attorney on the staff of the minority, unless he feels that a project is worth while and is feasible, it will never pass the House of Representatives.

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