Even this park containing the majestic redwoods has not proved a tourist bonanza along the heavily populated west coast of the United States. Recent newspaper reports point out that the park's biggest attraction, a 500-year-old redwood tree, 367 feet tall and believed to be the tallest living thing on earth, fails to attract many visitors, the reason being simply that not many citizens are willing or able to hike the 812-mile trail to visit the tree.

The total 1970 visitation is estimated by the park superintendent at 800 to 1,000 persons and only 685 actually signed the visitors' register located at the tree. Closer to home, it is important to note that 721,000 people visited the famous Padre Island National Park and the Big Bend National Park registered only 172.600 the same year-1970. For those physically strong enough to enjoy hiking or backpacking in east Texas, the 658,000 acres of national forests in Texas are located within 100 miles of Beaumont and Houston and offer unlimited access. A 100-mile hiking trail was recently completed on the Sam Houston National Forest north of Houston. Other trails have been made available through industrial members of the Texas Forestry Association.

As stated before, I have omitted a large part of most of my prepared statement. Paul Kramer, the director of the Texas Forestry Service, made a very important point a while ago in that the present timberland owners have actually regrown the Big Thicket in the last 50 years.

In the event that anybody is interested, after you have concluded the testimony here today, we have some aerialgraphs that will be displayed over in the corner of east Texas, a portion of east Texas, that were taken in 1932 and others that were taken this year, 1972.

It is also important to note right here that in 1914 the Texas Department of Agriculture produced a report which stated that in 1914. May 9, 1914, 85 percent of Hardin County had been cut over. Jasper County, 82 percent. Newton, 75 percent. This just merely states that we are talking about an area of Texas that has been regrown through modern careful forest management.

In the event this committee is convinced that a portion of this area should be set aside as a national park, and in the event you feel that the area you observed yesterday meets the criteria of a national park, the following considerations should be paramount in your deliberations.

1. The citizens living in this area must not be displaced.

2. Payment for lands taken will be in cash or in kind.

3. Payment to local taxing jurisdictions will be made in lieu of lost

tax revenue.

4. Areas with unique qualities only should be preserved which does not include the stream banks.

5. The Big Thicket Park should only contain areas which should be preserved for their biological qualities. Any consideration given to recreation should be focused around lakes Sam Rayburn, Toledo Bend, and Conroe, whose shorelines are already partially owned by the U.S. Government.

6. The corridor concept as proposed in one of the pending bills to be considered by you should be dropped in its entirety due to undue hardships to area citizens and industries operating in this area includ

ing oil, gas, pipelines, utilities and forest. The streams are already in the ownership of the State of Texas, and inclusion in a national park would have the reverse effect-that is to deny hunters, fishermen, and nature lovers access to these areas.

7. It is most important to remember that everything in the forests of east Texas can be duplicated in all Southern States. In other words, there are not any flora or fauna in our area that cannot be duplicated many times elsewhere.

8. The forest industries of east Texas have made available 400.000 acres of their land for public enjoyment. Brochures describing these lands are available free of charge and hunters, fishermen, and nature lovers are invited to use these lands. Combining the national forest lands of Texas with these private lands, a total of over 1 million acres are readily accessible to the general public in east Texas.

In closing, let me suggest that you look at other areas of unique quality in this same general vicinity which unlike the renewable forests of east Texas, are in danger of being forever lost-the wetlands of the McFaddin Ranch, which make up the coastal marshes of South Jefferson county. There are approximately 30,000 acres of valuable coastal marshlands which provide habitat and act as a nursery for many species of fish and game and which are also the wintering grounds of millions of waterfowl. The lands are located south of the intracoastal canal and are the only wetlands left between Sabine Pass and Boliver. It will soon be subdivided and lost forever, but the present owners are willing to sell at their cost plus interest to date. This offer will not be left open much longer. The Jack Brooks Wildlife Refuge should have priority over any other land acquisition program

in Texas.

Thank you very much, sir.

Mr. TAYLOR. Are there any others who are going to speak at this

time?

Mr. CRAWFORD. No, sir.

Mr. TAYLOR. Well, thank you.

You said that the citizens in the area should not be displaced. Do you have any count as to the number of homes in the area presented by Mr. Fritz on this map?

Mr. CRAWFORD. There was one count made by the Texas Forestry Association that stated that I believe 5,000 people would be displaced by the program recommended by Mr. Fritz.

Mr. TAYLOR. Now, do you mean there are 5.000 homes in that area? Mr. CRAWFORD. 5,000 people, sir. I believe there are 1.200 homes. Mr. TAYLOR. We flew over it and we traveled on a section of the river and we were not able to see many houses or homes.

Mr. CRAWFORD. No, sir; you cannot see them from the air.

Mr. TAYLOR. You are chairman of the Big Thicket Preservation Committee of the Texas Forestry Association. What action has this committee or the Texas Forestry Association taken to preserve the values of the Big Thicket area?

Mr. CRAWFORD. The only thing we had to go on, sir-the subject of the Big Thicket has been discussed for many, many years and like some of the bills that have been introduced with an acreage figure but nothing defined, and when the Park Service made their pre

liminary report, their study in 1966, with the result of a report in 1967, they had definite proposals and it was a 35,000-acre so-called String of Pearls and we immediately endorsed this proposal and established a cutting moratorium on these areas.

Mr. TAYLOR. Now, you state that many groups are backing your proposal. Now, summarize again the contents of your proposal.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Sir, that proposal is the 35.500-acre String of Pearls proposal which is noted on the map to your right.

Mr. TAYLOR. Now, what would you call that area?

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is called-I do not know where the name came from but it is the Big Thicket String of Pearls concept.

Mr. TAYLOR. Well, if we were to take it as a federally administered area, we would probably have to fit it into one of our standard desig

nations.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAYLOR. How much virgin timber, if any, is in the area proposed for the national park?

Mr. CRAWFORD. The only virgin timber that I know of is in the Neches Bottom Unit, which was visited by the committee yesterday.. That is hardwood. It was cut over-eastern parts of it were cut over prior to 1932, some of it, and we heard yesterday that part of the other was cut 10 years ago.

Mr. TAYLOR. The gentleman from Colorado.

Mr. ASPINALL. Mr. Crawford, I wish to thank you and your associates for your contribution to the hearings and to mention once again that these conflicting interests must necessarily be resolved by representatives of the Federal Government in any such matter as this.. Now, you used the term in your statement "national parks” and “national monuments," and apparently "national seashores," as synonymous, is that correct?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Not exactly, sir. I was merely pointing out the influence as far as tourism was concerned.

Mr. ASPINALL. Well, a national monument is practically the same thing as a national park except it does not always have statutory status. You understand that?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. ASPINALL. You referred to some other unit here which is in fact a seashore and not a national park. Each one of these has a different meaning as far as their use in the national picture is concerned.

Now, national parks, and I think that you, and everybody else, should understand this, do not need to be virgin in character. We just have some that are more or less virgin as far as their values are concerned, but Guadalupe Mountains National Park in Texas is a good illustration. Mesa Verde in Colorado is a good illustration. These areas do not necessarily have to be virgin lands. Yet in your statement, on page 2, you refer to the original virginity of this area. When and how was that original virginity destroyed or lost, Mr. Crawford?

Mr. CRAWFORD. It started being destroyed and lost in about 1950 when the logging industry first moved into east Texas.

Mr. ASPINALL. Well, I was told yesterday that originally there were not any trees whatsoever in this plain. Is that correct? Mr. CRAWFORD. I do not know that.

Mr. ASPINALL. Well, that is what I thought you were referring to. Mr. CRAWFORD. No, sir.

Mr. ASPINALL. Do I understand from your statement, that Texas not so long ago refused a gift of these timberlands?

Mr. CRAWFORD. It was quite a while ago. It was during the depression and when the Houston Oil Cos. of Texas were cutting over all of the virgin long leaf stands in east Texas during the depression they were trying to get rid of all of the surface lands. From their point of view there was no further use for them.

Mr. ASPINALL. You are talking about the depression of the 1930's? Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. ASPINALL. That may be quite a while ago to you but it is not too long ago to me. [Laughter.]

Mr. CRAWFORD. After being unable to sell the surface lands, they offered the State of Texas the entire amount, which is close to a million acres, just so they would not have to pay taxes on it, the State of Texas said you keep it. Some day you will be able to pay your back taxes. Mr. ASPINALL. And now the people of Texas interested in this project want Uncle Sam to pay $60 or $75 million for the area, is that correct?

Mr. CRAWFORD. At least that much; yes, sir.

Mr. ASPINALL. Sometimes it is not the Federal Government that makes all the mistakes: is it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. You are right.

Mr. ASPINALL. You understand that whenever there is the creation of a unit such as proposed here, no matter what the nomenclature may be, that the taking of the land, if taking is provided by condemnation, will be done at the fair market value of the lands taken into consideration as of the time of the taking.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. ASPINALL. There is no possibility of exchange of lands in this area for lands in another area because the National Park Service does not own any lands for the purpose of exchange.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I understand that, sir, but I think the legislation could be worked out where lands could be exchanged with the national forest lands or that the Interior Department or someone could acquire lands for exchange in the area.

Mr. ASPINALL. They are just a little bit naive. The National Forest Service is not about to do anything like that voluntarily.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I realize that.

Mr. ASPINALL. Also, you made reference to fishing in a national park or a national monument. Fishing is allowed generally in national parks. Now, there are areas where fishing is not permitted because of certain situations particularly pertinent to that area. But, generally, fishing is allowed and hunting is not allowed.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, I understand that.

Mr. ASPINALL. That is all. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman, the reference to the Padre Island and the Big Bend Parks only serve one point. that the tourism has not been at an expected level, that this, the Big Thicket National Park in east Texas, is not going to be a tourist bonanza. There are not going to be 2 million people annually visiting this area, I do not feel.

Mr. ASPINALL. Well, as a Coloradan I am going to suggest some of them come to this area.

That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. TAYLOR. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Kazen.

Mr. KAZEN. Thank you, sir, for the contribution which you made here this morning. We appreciate your statement.

I only have one question, Mr. Crawford. The String of Pearls that you refer to has already been surveyed and the boundaries have been designated. Am I correct in that?

Mr. CRAWFORD. No, sir. It has not been surveyed. I believe that the members of the Park Service have been on it, on the ground. They have spent many hours and many days over here and these are the areas that they have picked out. They have been to each one of them but I do not think they have been surveyed.

Mr. KAZEN. And so in the number of acres that they talk about, 35,000, those have not had boundary lines placed on them by the Park Service.

Mr. CRAWFORD. No, sir, they have not.

Mr. KAZEN. Thank you very much.

Mr. TAYLOR. NOW, your proposal consists of various locations. Would you connect them by any kind of a strip down the river?

Mr. CRAWFORD, No, sir.

Mr. TAYLOR. You state that the streams are owned by the State of Texas.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAYLOR. In most States navigable streams are owned by the Federal Government.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Well, here, too, but most of these that will be included in here are not classed as navigable.

Mr. TAYLOR. Of course, I know the State of Texas was an independent country before it became a State and I thought probably it had retained title to its streams; thus putting it in a different category from other States.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Very likely it did.

Mr. TAYLOR. I think that is probably the situation.

I also would like to comment on a problem that is developing with regard to houseboats on the Neches River. They are a source of pollution and will become a much more severe source if the problem is not faced forthrightly by the State or some agency with authority.

Mr. KAZEN. I was just going to bring to the chairman's attention. that Texas did retain its title or the title in all of its public lands and I think that Texas is about the only State west of the Mississippi where the Federal Government owns practically no land. So whatever we have to acquire here will have to be acquired either from the State or from local property owners.

Mr. TAYLOR. And the State would have to donate the streams in order for the park proposal to be possible.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. KAZEN. And this, Mr. Chairman, is another one of those technicalities that we are going to have to deal with before we can create the type of a Big Thicket that some of the folks have been talking about here because the legislature has to take that action.