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not enough to let that woman come in; $65 a week plus $4,000 in
the bank looks pretty good to me to look after one person.

Senator REYNOLDS. For how long?
Mr. HERSEY. It would be reasonable for a year or so, anyway.
Senator REYNOLDS. Where was the $65 coming from?

Mrs. HERSEY. From wages coming into the family here. The people here were sending this affidavit of support.

Senator REYNOLDS. Every immigrant coming into this country provides competition for those already here. Is that not true?

Mrs. HERSEY. No; it is not quite true.
Senator REYNOLDS. Why is it not true?

Mrs. HERSEY. It looks that way. It looks as if they were putting them into the labor market.

Senator REYNOLDS. Are they not being put into the labor market?
Mrs. HERSEY. Not always.

Senator REYNOLDS. May I say in that connection, Mr. Chairman, that I have a photostatic copy in my office of advertisements of "work wanted” in the New York Times. I would like the members of the committee to see it. It contains advertisements for work by refugees from Germany and other countries. If that is not competition with our people, I do not know what is.

Senator HERRING. The witness was referring to the wife of this man.
Senator REYNOLDS. Yes.

Mrs. HERSEY. I was referring to this man's wife, and that family had an income of $65 a week and $4,000 in the bank. It may seem that they are causing greater competition in the labor market, but here you have consumers who are not entering the labor market. You have to lay that card on the table along with those looking for a job. You have the consumer angle as well as that of those who are going to get jobs. They are not all going to get them.

Senator HOLMAN. The only jobs are on public works.
Mrs. HERSEY. They cannot get those.
Senator HOLMAN. You would be surprised.
Mrs. HERSEY. I know a lot that were thrown out in the last

year. Senator HOLMAN. I think you would be surprised at the experience of the State departments and municipal departments as well as Federal departments, and I have had 20 years' experience with them.

Senator REYNOLDS. These people coming in here are taking work from and jobs from Americans or aliens already here.

Senator HOLMAN. That is correct.

Senator REYNOLDS. I should like to read this affidavit into the record for it is certainly in point. It is a photostatic copy of an affidavit by a man named Victor Meyer, sworn to before a commissioner of deeds on the 16th of March 1939 just a day or two ago. It reads as follows:

I, Victor C. Meyers, being duly sworn, depose and state as follows:

I reside at 583 East Second Street, Brooklyn, N. Y., and am a citizen of the United States, having been born here. I have been a department manager with Sears, Roebuck & Co., Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, N. Y., for the past 6 years.

During this period of employment my services were entirely satisfactory, and it has always been my intention to continue the aforementioned employment. On July 25, 1938, I was discharged permanently without any good and sufficient cause, except the desire of the manager of the branch store of my employer to fill my position with an alien refugee.

The aforementioned position from which I was discharged was immediately filled by an alien refugee, a Mr. Goldsmith. This man has since been replaced

1 a

by another person, due to the fact that I communicated with the main office of Sears, Roebuck & Co. and my former employer at Chicago, Ill.

Mr. H. Marcus, manager of the Brooklyn store (Bedford Avenue), claimed that my services were not satisfactory, and in consequence I was dismissed. This is not the real reason.

May I state that I have been a resident of this section of Brooklyn for more than 30 years, with an unblemished record, and that my friends most certainly will not patronize any Sears, Roebuck store in this Borough until they will give jobs to Americans first, instead of aliens, who should not be admitted to this country for any reason when we have more than 10,000,000 unemployed today.

Senator HERRING. Proceed, Mrs. Hersey.

Mrs. HERSEY. Aside from the fact that some of them are possible consumers and not on the labor market, of the few we let in, I would like to call attention to the situation involved in S. 410; that is, the relief situation. You know, I feel very much in awe when I read these bills you Senators introduce. When you speak of the alien and the various terms you use, I always feel like when I designate myself as "party of the first part” or "party of the second part. Then I think what these aliens are that go on relief. Let me give you my own practical experience in relation to immigrants.

I do believe we should be very careful not to add to our public load, that is already very heavy. I believe our State Department is so doing. Sometimes I think they are extremely strict about their regulations. I think they are doing a fine job over there and trying their best to see that we do not get an additional load. I refer to those who come in legally. But I sometimes find that I get the picture that there are some things that are away off in the dark somewhere. Then I know that is not true.

You may bave a grandmother in one home, or maybe a grandfather in another, or a brother in another home. When a family is put on relief perhaps the breadwinner is a citizen, but here is the grandmother, who is entitled to his support. When that citizen loses his job, that puts the old grandmother on relief. After she has been on relief for 6 months, would you take her away from her family and break her heart by sending her back to Germany or to Italy, or wherever she came from?

You have to take all that into consideration, too, and it seems to me that if we do that we would be causing a very considerable amount of grief, and would be more unfair to our own communities and would be causing a great deal of hardship in our own American cities. I would be as strict as I could about letting them in, and getting into predicaments that have been referred to, but I would not pass this bill. I would be strongly against it.

Senator Holman. May I ask you a question?
Mrs. HERSEY. Yes.

Senator HOLMAN. Have you any suggestions as to how we should go about any progressive development, rather than a radical immediate action? How could we go about a progressive development in the solution of this problem?

Mrs. HERSEY. Of immigration?

Senator Holman. Yes. How could we go about a progressive development of the curtailment to a minimum of the number of immigrants?

Mrs. HERSEY. I think one thing I would seriously consider in building up legislation would be the near relatives of our own people

that are here, if they have jobs and can take care of them. That is the first card I would put on the table to be sure of the old folks, the daughter that was left behind. I would be sure, which I think we are now doing, that the liability to become a public charge should be strictly interpreted, and it is my belief and experience that it is strictly interpreted. I would continue that. That cuts down a very great deal; that is, since the quota law.

We used to have aliens coming into our Philadelphia organization at the rate of about 1,100 in a year. Shortly after the depression came on President Hoover issued an order to strictly interpret that clause relating to liability of becoming a public charge, and it dropped down to 100 or 200. It cut the number by strictly interpreting the liability to become a public charge clause.

It is a very difficult situation. Frankly, I think you have a difficult job on your hands to work out a solution of the problem and not hurt the citizens who are already here, not separate families, or anything of that kind. I have had a great deal of experience along that line. That order caused a good deal of hardship among those people. It is very hard to see how these things will work out.

Senator REYNOLDS. You speak of the hardship cases.

Mrs. HERSEY. I did not say that, but I can talk about them, if you want to.

Senator REYNOLDS. That is what you would consider?
Mrs. HERSEY. Yes.

Senator REYNOLDS. Do you favor the additional admission of 20,000 refugee children from Germany?

Mrs. HERSEY. That is another story.
Senator REYNOLDS. I was just asking you.
Mrs. HERSEY. I am reminded of a judge

Senator REYNOLDS (interposing). Will you just answer "yes" or "no"?

Mrs. HERSEY. As I say, I was reminded of the judge who said to a man, "Are you still beating your wife?"

Senator Ř EYNOLDS. Do you favor the passage of Senator Wagner's measure to admit in addition to Germany's annual quota of 27,370, 20,000 refugee children from Germany? Are you in favor of letting them come in? | Mrs. HERSEY. I cannot answer "yes” or “no”; but if you will give me a paragraph, I can tell you.

Senator REYNOLDS. Then you cannot answer "yes" or "no"?

Mrs. HERSEY. I say, with certain safeguards. I think that is the whole question in itself. It is a very important question.

When it comes to the last bill, which is S. 411, which gives the Secretary of Labor such tremendous power to determine whether an alien is inimical to the public interest, I would hate to be the Secretary of Labor if this bill is passed.

Senator REYNOLDS. I am sorry we cannot name anybody else, because I do not think she would deport anybody.

Mrs. HERSEY. Somebody else might deport everybody. That is my opinion of that law. That is my objection to it.

Senator REYNOLDS. If they would deport every alien, I would prefer that. I think it is the only way we will ever solve the unemployment problem.

Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that Mr. Trevor has to go back to New York, will you let him go on next?

Senator HERRING. I will be glad to. Do you have anything further?

Mrs. HERSEY. No. We are just looking at the practical end of it.

Senator HERRING. I think you have given some good suggestions. We are glad you came.

Do not let these Senators scare you. Just answer in your own way.

Mrs. HERSEY. I did not want to get caught by Senator Reynolds.



Senator HERRING. Please state your name and whom you represent.

Mr. TREVOR. My name is John B. Trevor. I am representing the American Coalition of Patriotic Societies. I will give you a list of these societies for the record.

Senator HERRING. Very well.
(The document referred to is here set forth in full, as follows:)



Aeronautical Association of America, Inc.
Allied Patriotic Societies, Inc.
American Coalition of New York,
American Defense Council.
American Vigilant Intelligence Federation.
American War Mothers.
American Women Against Communism.
American Women's League.
American Women's Legion of the World War.
Associated Chapters, Order of DeMolay of Pennsylvania.
Associated Farmers of California, Inc.
Auxiliary, Sons of Union Veterans of Civil War.
Better America Federation of California.
California Society, Order of the Founders & Patriots of America.
Colonial Order of the Acorn, New York Chapter.
Congress of States Societies.
Dames of the Loyal Legion of the United States.
Daughters of America, National Council.
Daughters of America, District of Columbia Council.
Daughters of the Defenders of the Republic.
Daughters of Union Veterans of the Civil War, 1861-65.
Defenders of the Constitution of United States.
Descendants of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence.
Disabled American Veterans of the World War.

District of Columbia Commandery, Naval and Mliltary Order of the SpanishAmerican War.

District of Columbia Society, Order Founders and Patriots of America.
First Motor Corps Unit No. 12, Massachusetts State Guard Veterans.
General Court, Order of the Founders and Patriots of America.
General Pershing Chapter, American War Mothers.
General Society of Mayflower Descendants.
General Society of the War of 1812.
Immigration Study Commission.
Junior American Vigilant Intelligence Federation.
Junior Order United American Mechanics, New Jersey.
Ladies of the Grand Army of the Republic.
Larchmont Colony, National Society of New England Women.
Louisiana Coalition of Patriotic Societies.
Massachusetts Society, Order of the Founders and Patriots of America.
Massachusetts Women's Constitutional League.
Metropolitan New York Jurisdiction, Order of DeMolay.
Military Order of Foreign Wars of the United States, National Commandery.
Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States, Commandery-in-Chief.

Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States, Commandery of the District of Columbia.

Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States, Commandery of tbe State of New York.

Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States, Commandery of the State of Pennsylvania.

Military Order of the World War.
Minute Men of America, Inc.
National Auxiliary, United Spanish War Veterans.
National Camp, Patriotic Order Sons of America.
National Commandery, Naval and Military Order of the Spanish Amiercan

National Constitution Day Committee.
National Corps, Army and Navy Union of the United States of America.
National Council, Sons and Daughters of Liberty.
National Patriotic Association.
National Patriotic League.
National Security League, Inc.
National Society, Daughters of the Revolution.
National Society, Daughters of the Union, 1861-65.
National Society of New England Women.
National Society 1917 World War Registrars, Inc.
National Society, Service Star Legion.
National Society, Sons and Daughters of the Pilgrims.
National Society, Sons of the American Revolution.
National Society, United States Daughters of 1812.

National Society, Women Descendants of the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company.

National Woman's Relief Corps.
New England Prostestant Action League.
New Jersey Society, Order of the Founders and Patriots of America.
New Jersey State Society, Daughters of the Revolution.
New York City Colony, National Society of New England Women.
New York Society, Order of the Founders & Patriots of America.
Old Glory Association.
Old Glory Club of Flatbush, Inc., Beacon No. 1.
Order of Colonial Lords of Manors in America.
Order of Independent Americans, Inc., State Council of Pennsylvania.
Order of Three Crusades 1096–1192, Inc.
Pennsylvania Society, Order of the Founders and Patriots of America.
Philadelphia Prostestant Federation.
Prostestant Women's National Civic Federation.
Regular Veterans Association.
Reserve Officers' Training Corps Association of the United States.
Rhode Island Association of Patriots.
Rhode Island Daughters of the American Colonists.
Rhode Island Society, Order of the Founders and Patriots of America.
Rochester District, American Coalition.
Schenectady Committee of 100.
Society for Constitutional Security.
Society of Colonial Wars in the District of Columbia.
Society of Colonial Wars in the State of New York.
Society of New York State Women.
Society of the Daughters of the United States Army.
Society of the Sons of the Revolution in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War.
Southern Vigilant Intelligence Association, Inc.
State Council (District of Columbia), Sons and Daughters of Liberty.
Tax Evils Committee of Council Bluffs, Iowa.
The Advisory Committee on Cooperation in Patriotic Work.
The American Coalition of Washington.
The American Indian Federation.
The Christian American Crusade.
The Federation of Hugenot Societies in America.
The Paul Reveres.
The Wheel of Progress.
Union to Preserve American Ideals and Institutions.
United Daughters of the Confederacy, New York Chapter.

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