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Senator HERRING. I wonder if you gentlemen from the Department would care to complete the record, insofar as you are concerned, or would you prefer to wait until after all the witnesses have testified?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. I was wondering if we could not do it when we get the transcript of the testimony. At that time we can complete the record, so far as we are concerned.

Yesterday, when Mr. Taylor was testifying, he made reference to the situation in Massachusetts, where there were 4,500 aliens in charitable institutions in that State that he would like to see deported and that the Governor of the State would like to see deported. The implication in the record is that the Immigration Service has not been deporting these deportable aliens, whereas the truth is that in all such institutions, hospitals, and others of that sort, our field service constantly keeps in touch with them, and we try to deport all deportable aliens. But the fact is that those 4,500 are not deportable, because they did not become public charges within 5 years after entry. There are a number of similar instances in the record, where we would like to look up our records before submitting a reply.

STATEMENT OF A. M. WARREN, CHIEF, VISA DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF STATE-Resumed

Senator HERRING. Mr. Warren, do you care to say anything further? Mr. WARREN. Yes. I should like to present the view of the State Department with respect to any proposed changes in law that will affect the situation as between the independent nations of the Western Hemisphere and this country.

Section 1 of S. 407 provides:

That reciprocal arrangements may be entered into by the Department of State with the Dominion of Canada, Newfoundland, the Republic of Cuba, the Republic of Mexico, the Republic of Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Canal Zone, or any independent country of Central or South America, whereby as many immigrants born in any said country otherwise admissible under the immigration laws may be admitted into the United States for permanent residence in any fiscal year as the number of persons born in the United States who were admitted into any said country for permanent residence during the preceding fiscal year.

As to that part of any proposed bill which would impose immigration quotas on natives of independent countries of the Western Hemisphere, it is desired to emphasize that such action would have the effect of revoking a privilege granted for good reason to Western Hemisphere countries under the 1924 Immigration Act, and would undoubtedly lead to much misunderstanding and resentment on their part at a time when the administration is taking active steps to foster the good neighbor policy.

Furthermore, there is no problem whatever in regard to Western Hemisphere immigration at the present time. Immigration of Canadians has never been regarded as a serious problem, and has been more or less matched, for a number of years, by emigration from this country to Canada. Immigration from Mexico, admittedly a serious problem prior to 1929, has been effectively reduced by administrative action to a point where it has averaged less than 1,400 per annum for the past 3 years.

Existing immigration law, particularly those sections of the 1917 Immigration Act dealing with public charges, illitearte, and contract

laborers, would seem, as administered for a number of years past, to form an effective and permanent barrier against any undue immigration of Mexican labor. These measures have already accomplished, without international disturbance, what those desiring a quota on Mexico seek to accomplish in another way.

S. 407 seeks to limit immigration between the United States and independent countries of the Western Hemisphere and Canada on a reciprocal basis, to be determined from year to year on the basis of immigration of the preceding year. Very few Americans who proceed to Central or South American Republics for temporary residence, expect to live permanently in those countries. They go merely as representatives of American industrial or commercial enterprises, almost invariably with the hope of returning to the United States to live with their families and educate their children here. The same is true of the relatively small number of persons who come to this country from those countries. The figure is very small. I have reports from these various countries which show that, from July 1, 1938, to January 1, 1939, the number of persons coming into the United States from Central or South American Republics does not exceed 90 or 100 or 125 for the entire 6 months' period from any one country. Those persons who do come to the United States seek usually to engage in commercial enterprises, and come because of the superior advantages for educating their children. Any reciprocal arrangement would necessarily be one-sided. Our people do not want to stay there; their people in small numbers do want to stay here.

It is my experience, from observation in South American countries for a period of years, that the situation is being and can be satisfactorily carried on under present administrative practices and our present laws.

The position with respect to Canada and Mexico and Cuba is somewhat different. I have here the consolidated reports from the Consul General of Mexico, showing the number admitted into the United States as permanent immigrants from July 1, 1938, through January 31, 1939, a period of 7 months, the number being 1,425. I do wish to put in the record that the examination of Mexican applications for nonquota visas to come to the United States, with respect to physical condition and liability to become a public charge, has not been lessened in any degree.

Senator REYNOLDS. May I ask a question?

Senator HERRING. Yes.

Senator REYNOLDS. Do you think that that situation is attributable in any respect to the fact that the present Government of Mexico is to a large degree communistic?

Mr. WARREN. Senator, you put me on the spot.

Senator REYNOLDS. You need not answer.

Mr. WARREN. In respect to immigration from Canada, the figures show a condition that is somewhat unusual.

If the committee would like to have the figures from independent countries in the Western Hemisphere, I have them here, but they are very small. Argentine, with the second largest population, shows from 70 to 86.

Senator REYNOLDS. What is their population?

Mr. WARREN. They estimate 13,000,000.

Here are the Canadian figures for the entire fiscal year, July 1, 1937, through June 30, 1938. They are prepared on an annual basis.

There were 20,687 persons coming into the United States for permanent residence. We do not have the figures showing the outflow of Americans to Canada. Many of them were native-born Canadians, naturalized in the United States, who returned to Canada. We do not have those figures.

In 1936 I inspected all our consulates in Canada, 25 in number, and I found an interesting situation in Nova Scotia and Manitoba. A large number of persons born in those Provinces had been naturalized as American citizens and lived for a period in this country, had returned in the 1 or 2 years prior to 1936 to resume their Canadian citizenship, possibly because they held the opinion that the old-age benefits that accrued in Nova Scotia and Manitoba were considerably larger than in some of the States in our country. Our feeling is that the immigration of native-born Canadians into the United States is compensated by Americans who proceeded to Canada for permanent residence.

Statistics with respect to Cuba show, from July 1, 1938, through January 31, 1939, only immigration visas were issued to 403 persons of Cuban nativity. So the Department of State feels that any change in the immigration laws or practices with respect to countries in the Western Hemisphere is not necessary, and is not desirable.

Senator REYNOLDS. You stated that the number of people coming into the United States during the year 1937-38 was around 10,000? Mr. WARREN. From Canada.

Senator REYNOLDS. But you have no figures as to the number who went from the United States to remain permanently in Canada? Mr. WARREN. We have no control over that.

Senator REYNOLDS. It has been my information, Mr. Chairman, that many thousands of people come from Canada daily into the United States to work and go back the same day; or they will come in on Monday morning and stay during the week and go back on Saturday night.

Mr. Warren, could you tell us anything about that? I was wondering if you have that information?

Mr. WARREN. We have caused studies to be made of that situation, with respect to persons living on one side of the border and working on the other. To a lesser extent that is also true of Mexico, but much less. These persons living in Canada as a matter of convenience who work across the border have been required to obtain immigration visas. The imposition of quotas upon Canada would only cause them to change their homes, because they have already qualified for permanent residence. They have a right to live here.

Senator REYNOLDS. Or live there?

Mr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator REYNOLDS. Whatever they want to do?
Mr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator HERRING. I know that is true in Detroit, where thousands live in Windsor and work in Detroit during the day.

Mr. WARREN. We are constantly studying that situation and noting any changes that may take place.

Mr. HOUGHTELING. Senator Mead, of New York, asked me about that, and I have been completing information about it. The number coming from Canada to the United States is somewhat more than those going from the United States to Canada.

Senator REYNOLDS. They do not have to secure a visa or passport to go to Canada.

Mr. WARREN. Not for a temporary visit.

Senator REYNOLDS. And the same is true of Nova Scotia and Labrador?

Mr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator REYNOLDS. And Mexico and Cuba?

Mr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator REYNOLDS. You said about 1,400 came in the first 8 months of this year from Mexico.

Mr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator REYNOLDS. No doubt those are very high-class people. What objection would there be to having a reciprocal agreement, such as is suggested in S. 407, to admit for permanent residence only such number as might be admitted to Mexico?

Mr. WARREN. We do not have as many Americans who want to go to Mexico to live. We do not have any great number going to that country for permanent residence.

Senator REYNOLDS. There is no doubt that the people from many of these countries are people of excellent character; fine people. It is not a question of that. But where we have no space to take care of them, Mexico should not feel offended if we said, "We will admit as many of your nationals as you admit of ours."

Mr. WARREN. The Mexican Government might easily feel that could be construed as discriminatory.

Senator REYNOLDS. I am sure you are familiar with the Mexican immigration laws.

Mr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator REYNOLDS. And you will admit that they are much stronger and more strict than ours?

Mr. WARREN. Their control is much closer than ours. That is true in all those countries. I know from my own experience in residing in South American countries that there are some places where you are required to obtain a registration card, and other places it is given to you gratuitously. I found it a great convenience.

Senator REYNOLDS. I have visited all the South American countries, and I have had such experiences as you made mention of.

I do not mean to particularly criticize the Department of Labor. As was suggested by the Senator from Oregon, I do not think they have enough men in the border patrols. I think Mr. Houghteling stated that they are handicapped in that respect. That has been the condition for several years.

Mr. WARREN. There is a special provision of law that governs the entry of aliens into the United States from Mexico that has been most helpful to our consuls in Mexico. That is with respect to persons coming as temporary visitors. Unless they can show a residence in Mexico for 2 years, they are not qualified to enter the United States. Persons who might obtain residence in Mexico, persons from other countries, and then apply immediately to the consul to come into the United States for temporary stay, unless they can show a 2 years' domicile in Mexico, irrespective of their nationality, they are not admissible to the United States.

Senator REYNOLDS. I do not want anything I have said, or any question I have asked here, to be construed as reflecting upon any

alien in this country or as a reflection upon anybody who has applied for citizenship. I want it to be stricly understood that I am merely endeavoring to do that which I think is best for my country. I want to state for the record that I am convinced that among these immigrants you will find some of the finest people in the world, so far as character and intelligence and breeding and things of that sort are concerned. I do not want my remarks to be construed by anybody as a reflection upon anybody. I am simply trying to do, as I said, that which I think is best for my country.

Senator HERRING. I think the committee understands that. I am glad you made that statement.

STATEMENT OF JAMES H. PATTEN, REPRESENTING THE SONS OF AMERICA AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS-Resumed Senator HERRING. You may resume your statement, Mr. Patten. Mr. PATTEN. When I gave way yesterday to Mr. Paul Scharrenberg, the representative of the American Federation of Labor, I was trying to point out that the alien is still in our midst and coming annually by the hundreds of thousands instead of "vanishing" as Labor Department officials say. During the last 14 years since the enactment of the present numerical restriction law in 19244,542,748 aliens of all classes have entered the United States legally. Between the 20 years, 1917 to 1937, that is, since the World War qualative restriction Act, our immigration, according to the Department's own classification along the lines of permanent residence intention at the time of entry, shows that 2,386,945 more immigrants entered than emigrants went out. The number of emigrants is based not on Government but on the reports of the steamship companies and transportation interests. The immigration officials do not count aliens going out. The Department of Labor takes reports of the transportation companies. No doubt it is as accurate as they can make it, but without any reflection they are interested parties. Last year 252,697 aliens of all classes entered the United States legally. In the neighborhood of 40,000 of those were nonpreference or section 5 aliens, who had no near relatives in the United States. Senator HERRING. Are your records the same as the Government records?

Mr. PATTEN. They are the statistics supplied by the Department of Labor, either in its annual reports or in its testimony to be found in the annual hearings at which the Department officials appear before the House Subcommittee on Appropriations.

Before I proceed to make what I hope may be a practical suggestion to the committee, I want to say something about the traditional American immigration policy. It has been stated here that our population has always been an immigrant population; that is foreign-born or born here of foreign-born parents. The truth is that in the first 250 years after Columbus, or Cabot, or whoever it was that first came to continental America, the best estimates are that not more than 80,000 immigrants came to the territory now called the United States. Even during the famine in Ireland and the political revolt in Germany, that caused the principal migrations here during the middle of the last century, only about 3,000,000 immigrants came.

Senator REYNOLDS. Between what years?

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