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Senator REYNOLDS. Was your organization ever investigated?
Mr. LEWIS. By whom?
Senator REYNOLDS. In 1920?
Mr. LEWIS. Not that I know of.
Senator REYNOLDS. By the Walsh committee?

Mr. LEWIS. No; as a matter of fact, the history of the organization is this: The work was organized and supported by the Federal Government as part of the activities of the United States Committee on Public Information. It continued during the wartime period, and after the war people thought what had been started was of such value that it should be continued. It was taken over for a short time by the 80-called Community Service, which worked with the Army. I was not with the organization at that time. For a year and a half it was a bureau of the American Red Cross. The funds of the Red Cross were diminished, and they could not carry it. It was then organized as an independent organization. We were investigated by people who charged us with being radical, and at times when most of our support came from some of the foundations. As a result of the investigation the Rockefeller Foundation and the commonwealth fund made grants of some $50,000 a year for 5 years, showing they were convinced of its value.

Senator REYNOLDS. Were you not investigated by the Walsh committee investigating what is called “corrupt practices”?

Mr. LEWIS. Absolutely not. You must be confusing it with somebody else.

Senator REYNOLDS. In connection with a 1920 campaign deal $400,000? What organization was that?

Mr. LEWIS. I do not recall.

Senator REYNOLDS. Your organization was not organized until after the war? The organization was the Association of Foreign Language Newspapers that was organized by Louis N. Hammerling and was investigated in connection with a $400,000 1920 campaign deal “for a political purpose" testified to in connection with that association's contact with all the foreign-language publications of this country.

Mr. LEWIS. That work was started during the war by the United States Committee on Public Information. It was subsequently carried on as part of Community Service, Inc.; then the Red Cross, and then reorganized as an independent organization.

Senator REYNOLDS. Has your organization ever sponsored any legislation restricting immigration?

Mr. LEWIS. We have never sponsored any legislation to restrict immigration.

Senator REYNOLDS. Has your organization ever sponsored any legislation for the purpose of deporting any aliens? Mr. LEWIS. Not for deporting any aliens.

Senator REYNOLDS. What has your organization done to help America?

Mr. LEWIS. Our organization is primarily interested in the question of assimilating the foreign-born people in the United States. That is what I may call an Americanization program. The work we do in the field of legislation is incidental to the general activities. Let me state in substance what our policy is, so far as legislative work is concerned. We are in general interested in furthering legislation

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me.

which will promote the assimilation of the immigrants already here. We have taken, with exceptions I will refer to, no stand whatever in regard to the number to be admitted to the United States. We have tried to bring together in our work foreign-born people with a view of assimilating those already here. The exceptions to which I referred are these: We feel that, as an essential to such assimilation, you must have some time some kind of family union, and that our laws should take account of the necessity of uniting families of immigrants.

Senator REYNOLDS. Do you not think they ought to unite on their own shores?

Mr. LEWIS. No; if an immigrant has been admitted here under our laws, it would be impractical to provide for meeting on the other side.

Senator REYNOLDS. Are you in favor of the bill introduced by Senator Wagner to admit 20,000 refugee children?

Mr. LEWIS. Is that an issue at this time?

Senator REYNOLDS. I want to ascertain your attitude on that subject.

Mr. Lewis. Does that have any connection with these bills? Senator REYNOLDS. If you object to answering, it is all right with

I will use it in my argument on the floor of the Senate. Mr. Lewis. I am in favor of the bill.

Senator REYNOLDS. And you want those additional 20,000 children to come in here? You will admit, will you not, that the next step will be to ask that their families be reunited here? Is that not true?

Mr. LEWIS. Some of them might.

Senator REYNOLDS. It would be the natural thing. If those 20,000 children come over here, and their fathers and mothers are in Germany, would you want to see them reunited here or in Germany?

Mr. LEWIS. Senator Reynolds, you have a very good provision in one of your bills.

Senator REYNOLDS. That provides for reuniting the families here? Mr. LEWIS. No; that the alien is given a visa.

Senator REYNOLDS. All the members of the family have to subject themselves to an examination.

Mr. LEWIS. Yes; or else they are not admissible.
Senator STEWART. You are against these bills, are you?

Mr. Lewis. I am against these bills as a whole. I think the provision to which I just referred is a very fair provision. A good many families will be able to reunite under that provision. It would look unfair, if we adopt the policy of restriction, not to provide for the reunion of the family. The particular provision, I think, needs some

I safeguards, but in principle I think it is sound.

Senator REYNOLDS. Are you in favor of reducing the quotas of the various countries of the world?

Mr. LEWIS. As to the general principle, our organization takes no stand whatever.

Senator REYNOLDS. How do you personally feel about it? Mr. LEWIS. I do not think that is the question at this time. Senator REYNOLDS. You are testifying before this committee on my bills which propose to cut the quotas drastically.

Mr. Lewis. I know that I am.

Senator REYNOLDS. The committee would like to know your general attitude.

Mr. LEWIS. Mr. Chairman, the Senator wants to know what the stand of our organization is, and I have not yet been allowed to start discussing the bill. I think Senator Reynolds is rather ahead of the point.

Senator STEWART. Would you prefer to discuss the bill first and answer questions afterwards?

Mr. LEWIS. I think I would. We have taken no stand in regard to the number to be admitted, one way or the other, with the exception of that question of reuniting families. We do believe proper provision should be made for that. We believe that at the present time, under the world emergency that exists, and with the moral obligation which the United States has assumed

Senator REYNOLDS (interposing). What obligation did we assume to take care of the people of the world?

Mr. Lewis. I will answer that in a moment.
Senator REYNOLDS. I would like for you to do it.

Mr. LEWIS. In the face of the moral obligation the United States has assumed, it would be against our best interests not to admit during this critical period as many refugees as are now permitted to come in under our present law. What I refer to is this: You will recall that about a year ago the President of the United States, in view of the appalling situation that existed in many countries abroad, the persecution of certain religious and racial groups of people, issued an invitation to some 30 different countries to come together in international conference to consider what could be done about that situation, and provide relief or some solution for that terrific tragedy that was taking place. That was done with the understanding that those countries would be asked to do no more than could be done under existing immigration laws at that time.

Under our leadership that conference did meet last summer, and an international organization has resulted in which Americans have been prominent, which has been attempting to deal with that distressing problem. It seems to me, in the face of the initiative our country has taken, that we could well assume what I would like to call a moral responsibility to go to the limit of our existing immigration laws in extending relief to people affected by these tragedies. It seems to me that cutting immigration quotas at this time would be against the best interests of the country.

Senator REYNOLDS. You say cutting immigration quotas at this time would be against the best interests of the country?

Mr. LEWIS. I think it would be against the best interests of the country. Unhappily, we do not live in a world by ourselves. We are a part of the great world community. I think we should extend succor and relief so far as we can under existing immigration laws.

Senator REYNOLDS. It is your opinion that we should provide a haven for the persecuted of the world? Is that right?

Mr. LEWIS. No.

Senator REYNOLDS. Did you say relief for the "sucker,” or did you say "sucker and relief”'?

Mr. LEWIS. S-u-C-C-0-r and relief.

Senator REYNOLDS. Excuse me. I thought you said relief for the sucker.

Mr. LEWIS. I do not advocate that we receive all refugees, but certainly we can do no less than to do what we can under our existing immigration laws.

Senator REYNOLDS. What are you going to do with the 13,000,000 refugees we have now?

Mr. LEWIS. God knows.

Senator REYNOLDS. Thirteen million men and women out of employment.

Mr. LEWIS. I do not know.

Senator REYNOLDS. What are you going to do with the 3,000,000 on W. P. A.?

Mr. LEWIS. I will be glad to come to that.

Senator REYNOLDS. You believe in taking care of the foreigners before you take care of the people in the United States. Is that the attitude you assume?

Mr. Lewis. I did not say so.

Senator REYNOLDS. You have just told the committee that you believe the immigration quotas should not be cut.

Mr. LEWIS. I do, as far as the admission of refugees is concerned.

Senator REYNOLDS. You are aware that we have larger numbers out of employment here?

Mr. Lewis. I am.

Senator REYNOLDS. You know the more people we permit to come from foreign shores, if they live, the more we have got to throw Americans out of work, do you not?

Mr. LEWIS. No.
Senator REYNOLDS. How are they going to live unless they work?

Mr. LEWIS. Senator Reynolds, your argument, as I understand it, proceeds on the assumption that every immigrant coming into this country necessarily adds one to our unemployed. I think there is no basis for any such general assumption.

Senator REYNOLDS. Will you not admit, living in the city of New York, that merchants and industrialists have thrown out American men and women to take care of refugees from Germany?

Mr. LEWIS. I will admit that there have been a good many stories to that effect.

Senator REYNOLDS. Will you not admit that it has been done?
Mr. LEWIS. No.
Senator REYNOLDS. You have never heard of it?

Mr. LEWIS. I have never heard of that being done. I have heard of organizations which have tried to run down those stories. I have no doubt there were instances of that sort, but the great bulk of it is sheer invention. There is no question about it. If you will cite specific instances

Senator REYNOLDS (interposing). All right. I put an unimpeachable story in the record this morning, and a string of refugee ads in the New York Times appealing for work.

Mr. LEWIS (continuing). They can be investigated and run down. STATE OF NEW YORK,

County of New York, ss.: Elizabeth Westgate, being duly sworn says I am director of personnel of Bloomingdale Bros., Inc., which operates a department store in the city of New York, and have been such for about 9 years last past. We have on our pay roll about *2,563 people. The number of people on our pay roll for the year 1938 and for several previous was about 2,400, not including temporary help. As director of personnel, I supervise the employment office, which has charge of the hiring and discharging of employees, and no person can be placed on the pay roll or discharged from employment except through the employment office.

The total number of people in our employ who might be classified as “refugees” is 11. Of these, 2 were employed in 1936, 7 in 1937, 1 in 1938, and 1 in 1939. Of the 11, only 1 is employed in selling. Of the others, 1 was employed as an executive in our Berlin office, and 1 was employed in our Vienna office. Not a single person has at any time been discharged from our employ in order to make room for a refugee."

ELIZABETH WESTGATE. Sworn to before me this 28th day of March 1939. (SEAL)

HARRY C. SQUIRES, Notary Public. Commission expires March 30, 1939.

ABRAHAM & STRAUS, INC.,

Brooklyn. I, Richard H. Brown, vice president and general superintendent of Abraham & Straus, Inc., am responsible for all employment and record-department activities of this company.

On March 28, 1939, Abraham & Straus, Inc., has on its books 2,719 employees. To my knowledge, no employee has been discharged and replaced by a refugee from any foreign country.

RICHARD H. BROWN. STATE OF NEW YORK

County of Kings: Subscribed and sworn to before me this 28th day of March 1939. (SEAL]

CORINNE M. O'SULLIVAN, Notary Public. Commission expires March 30, 1941.

you not?

Senator REYNOLDS. All right.

Mr. LEWIS. The point I had reached was explaining the policy of the organization I represent in regard to immigration, that we take no stand on the general question of the number of people to be admitted, with the exception to which I referred. If I overstated that, I am expressing my personal opinion and not the opinion of the organization. That same question was up 2 years ago, and you will find my point of view expressed on page 96 of the hearings on your bills at that time.

Senator REYNOLDS. You opposed all of my bills at that time, did

Mr. Lewis. In general; yes. You will find my testimony set forth there. What has happened during the last 5 years in regard to immigration? The number of quota immigrants that came into the United States for the 5 years ending June 30, 1938, was 118,621. As a matter of fact, that is only 15 percent of our quotas. So that, as a matter of fact, we had under the operation of present law, particularly the clause with reference to becoming a public charge, an 85-percent cut in quotas, so that we have actually had a very considerable reduction. As a matter of fact, during the same 5 years, the total number of emigrants leaving the United States for permanent residence abroad was 156,368; in other words, 40,000 more than came in. So that actually we had fewer quota immigrants coming in than went out.

Senator REYNOLDS. Do you know how many came in illegally?
Mr. LEWIS. No; and no one else does, so far as I know.

Senator REYNOLDS. Do you know how many aliens are in the United States?

Mr. Lewis. Approximately. As has been pointed out before there are a little less than 4,000,000 at this time. I believe we have a population of about 130,000,000, which means we have 126,000,000 citizens and 4,000,000 aliens. When we talk about the effect of immigration on our unemployment problem, it seems to me it would

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