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Mr. RAINEY. In other words, these importers of buttons control the domestic output of sweet pearl buttons?

Mr. NOYES. Of the ocean pearl, to a large extent.

Mr. RAINEY. They control the ocean pearl and also control the domestic pearl?

Mr. NOYES. To a large extent.

Mr. RAINEY. They control both kinds?

Mr. NOYES. I should presume they did.

Mr. HILL. Have you read the Consular and Trade Reports dealing with this industry?

Mr. NOYES. Yes, sir; I have, sir.

Mr. HILL. Is the statement in there correct, that "the ivory button industry is confined so largely to the group of establishments at Schmolln that a uniform tariff for wages has been introduced"? Mr. NOYES. I am very glad you raised that point. Mr. HILL. Let me read further:

There is an enormous consumption of buttons by the glove manufacturers in Saxony and in central Germany. Of late years there have been excessive competition and very low prices have prevailed. Recently the factories producing these small buttons have united in a syndicate for the purpose of maintaining uniformity in prices and equalizing the distribution.

This syndicate is organized as a limited joint-stock company, and is located at Schmolln.

The Italian industry is understood to be more important than the German, and, on account of the lower rate of wages prevailing in Italy, is in a position to pay the German duty and still undersell the German manufacturers in many lines.

Mr. NOYES. I should think so. I should like to say that these gentlemen engaged in the ivory-button business in Germany are in agreement and accord, all of them. They have told me so. I have visited them and they admit it.

I may say, however, that the industry in Germany is not as large, relatively, as it was. The wages in Germany are higher than in Austria. So that 10 or 15 years ago the business began to drift from Germany to Austria. Then, too, gentlemen, years ago the Italians took up this business, and they have been growing very rapidly. It is a fact that in spite of the protective tariff in Germany most of the Italian buttons-large quantities of Italian buttons are going into Germany. The largest manufacturer in Germany told me this, that he recently placed an order for about 175,000 cards of sweet blanks with the Italians so that he could bring them into Germany, color them up, and finish them. He said it was cheaper to do that than to make the goods himself; he simply had to do the coloring and finishing. So you see the industry is drifting away from Germany. That consular report refers largely to the industry in Germany, and particularly Schmolln, which is the center of the button business in Germany. All of the factories in Germany are within a radius of a few miles of that center.

Mr. HILL. This report reads:

On account of the lower rate of wages prevailing in Italy, Italy is in position to pay the German duty and still undersell the German manufacturers in many lines. Mr. NOYES. That is the point I was trying to bring out.

Mr. Chairman, I think I have given you evidence to this effect, that the vegetable ivory industry, although small, is really on the breaking point. When you realize we made on our capital in two years only 1.72 per cent, I think you will be convinced of that fact. Obviously,

of course, we have sold a great many goods under cost. That condition would not be true unless we had done it. By reason of that fact we have, of course, held down importations to some extent.

The point I wish to make to you is this, that from the figures I have given it is obvious if you do reduce the tariff on vegetable ivory buttons even to a slight degree, that you will swamp the industry in this country.

If I felt it was possible to come before you with a plea for a higher duty, if I felt the mandates from the people who had placed in power the Democratic party permitted you to consider an increase in the duty, I believe I could furnish you facts that would warrant us in asking it. I am not going to do so. I only say this, that under the present situation if you endeavor to increase the importations even to the slightest amount, 5 or 10 per cent, you will surely and inevitably bring in not that amount, but 80 per cent or 90 per cent of all the buttons consumed in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you presented figures showing the importations of buttons?

Mr. NOYES. Only so far as your records will show them.

The CHAIRMAN. That was how much?

Mr. NOYES. You see we have not the figures of importations.
Mr. PALMER. The imports last year were $98,674.

The CHAIRMAN. That was horn and vegetable ivory buttons.
Mr. PALMER. Yes, sir.

Mr. NOYES. Let me make this point, that the $98,000 paid in duty, when brought into this country, amounted to, say, $143,000, if I am correct. Mind you, however, that we are selling direct to the consumer, to the wholesale clothing trade and merchant tailor, consequently our volume of price, as regards the price at which they bring them in, translating that importation of $143,000 into the equivalent, and by that I mean selling them direct to the trade, you probably have $250,000 as against our volume of business in this country. The CHAIRMAN. I see your point.

Mr. NOYES. That is a fair point, is it not, Mr. Chairman?
The CHAIRMAN. I think so.

Mr. PALMER. Included in that volume of your business, however, is the volume of raw materials which are imported free?

Mr. NOYES. Yes, sir; as the raw materials are in these other kinds. Mr. PALMER. What proportion of this $1,314,000 production repre

sents raw material?

Mr. NOYES. I could not answer. I gave you my figures for my industry, 84 per cent; labor 84 per cent against raw material 194 per cent.

Mr. PALMER. I notice, too, these imports, that the import price is steadily increasing, which, of course, is the reason why the equivalent ad valorem is going down. What is the reason for that?

Mr. NOYES. The fact that raw material is coming in free, is 300 per cent of what it was in 1897, which I gave you in the beginning. You see that accounts for the fact.

Mr. KITCHIN. I notice the exports amount to $740,000 on buttons. What kind of buttons are those?

Mr. NOYES. I could not tell you. There are about 20 or 30 different kinds of buttons made in this country. There is the mussel shell

found out in the western rivers, ocean pearl, cloth, brass, metal, horn, bone, celluloid, wood, papier mâché, and things of that kind. Mr. KITCHIN. What are the majority of these buttons that we export?

Mr. NOYES. Not having made any effort to obtain any foreign business, realizing we could not, against the labor conditions confronting us, I could not say.

Mr. KITCHIN. You could not tell us what kind?

Mr. NOYES. No, sir; I could not tell you offhand.

Mr. HULL. The value of these buttons is well established?

Mr. NOYES. It is a business, as far as we are concerned, a business

of style.

Mr. HULL. I understand it is based upon style, whatever that may be, but the value is well established?

Mr. NOYES. I do not know just what you mean. Relatively, yes; they have a range

Mr. HULL (interposing). You would recognize the value upon these buttons anywhere?

Mr. NOYES. No, sir. I wish to make that point, if I may, just a moment. I was going to say, and I think it is one of the strongest points I have to make, and I wish to make it in closing.

Gentlemen, we come before you asking that the present duty be maintained, and we want to lay especial emphasis on the fact that we need in this industry a specific duty. The present duty is threefourths of a cent per line per gross. A line is one-fortieth of an inch. A button is measured by its diameter. That is, a coat button is 30 line, thirty-fortieths of an inch in size; three-fourths of an inch. A vest button is a 24-line button, a sleeve button a 20-line button. For this reason, obviously, the smaller the button the lower the price; therefore the specific actually gives the specific amount according to the relative value of the different sizes.

Our business, as I have emphasized to you, is one of styles and novelties. The difference in cost between the buttons is not so much due to this kind or the other kind as it is due to the variations in connection with the manufacturing and selling of any one given button. The Rochester Button Co. has submitted to you a card which I wish you would look upon for a moment. I refer to the larger card. I think to your eyes-those of a layman-it will be apparent at once that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between the value of those goods. I will say this to you, that if that sample card were submitted to a button manufacturer without prices attached, without any knowledge as to who had made the goods or the circumstances and conditions of their manufacture and sale, it would be very difficult for a manufacturer to determine the value of those goods. Now, then, if that is true, we submit that an appraiser can not and never could pass judgment on the relative values of those goods. We submit that exhibit to you, and we beg to submit to you on behalf of the Rochester Button Co. a brief containing reasons for a specific duty. This brief contains 27 different reasons why we need a duty on vegetable ivory buttons that shall be in part specific. I believe that with this exhibit and this brief we will demonstrate to you fully the need of a specific duty, at least in part, upon our products.

We ask, as I stated before, that the present duty be permitted to remain.

I want to ask one more favor, Mr. Chairman. I have taken the time of your committee

Mr. FORDNEY (interposing). What is the ad valorem on vegetable ivory buttons?

Mr. NOYES. It is three-quarters of a cent per line and 15 per cent ad valorem.

Mr. FORDNEY. What would the total ad valorem be on the average or the $1.35 button?

Mr. NOYES. The total ad valorem equivalent? I think it is true that you can not directly translate the specific and ad valorem to an ad valorem equivalent. The last figures for the fiscal year show the ad valorem equivalent of this duty was only 45 per cent. come down 79 per cent, 71 per cent, 64 per cent, 54 per cent, down to 45 per cent.

Mr. FORDNEY. The equivalent would be 45 per cent?

It has

Mr. NOYES. Under the statement of the cost per unit that is given that is true.

Mr. FORDNEY. Three-quarters of a cent per line and 15 per cent ad valorem?

Mr. NOYES. Fifteen per cent ad valorem and three-quarters of a cent per line.

Mr. FORDNEY. Would that hold good on this $3.25 button?

Mr. NOYES. Those are our prices to the clothing trade to which we are selling these goods in this country.

Mr. FORDNEY. And the foreign price-would 45 per cent on that kind of button be about that?

Mr. NOYES. I should assume that on the average. Of course, these goods might have come in at even a less rate of duty.

Mr. FORDNEY. That would not be far out of the way-45 per cent. Mr. NOYES. So far as the figures of the Government go, the last 3 years show 64 per cent, 54 per cent, and 45 per cent. It is hardly fair to take any particular year as an absolute guide.

I want to ask this further favor. These other manufacturers who have appeared here and who have not spoken, four or five of them have asked me to submit to you their briefs, and we will leave them with you, and we would appreciate such courtesy as you could extend to them in the matter of these briefs.

The CHAIRMAN. Hand them in and they will be printed in the record.

Mr. HULL. I wanted to ask one question concerning this method of measuring by line. When was this invented?

Mr. NOYES. Way before I have any knowledge. I have been in the industry for years. You see the business was first followed in England, and drifted to Germany, and then to Austria and Italy. It probably started in Germany.

Mr. HULL. It is based entirely on the width?

Mr. NOYES. On the diameter of the button.

Mr. HULL. It does not relate to dimensions in other respects?

Mr. NOYES. No, sir.

Mr. HULL. Nor to its finish or style?

Mr. NOYES. No, sir; it is just the diameter of the button.

Mr. FORDNEY. I want to ask you whether I have these figures about right-and while you were talking I figured it up? On this button,

which you quote as $1.35, you state your labor cost is 80 per cent and the material 20 per cent?

Mr. NOYES. Yes, sir.

Mr. FORDNEY. Your labor cost on that $1.35 button would be $1.08, and material 27 cents, total $1.35.

Mr. NOYES. Without figuring profit, of course.

on that button.

Mr. FORDNEY. That is the cost?

We have a profit

Mr. NOYES. If we assume that the cost was the figure stated there. There is some profit attached to that button, of course.

Mr. FORDNEY. For the sake of demonstrating.
Mr. NOYES. Yes; for the sake of demonstrating.
Mr. FORDNEY. We will say that that is your cost.
Mr. NOYES. Yes, sir.

Mr. FORDNEY. Assuming that the foreigner paid as much for his raw material as you do, 27 cents of the $1.35, his average labor cost being about 45 per cent, his labor cost would be 36 cents. Now, adding a 50 per cent ad valorem duty on that, makes a total of 69.2 cents. Then that button would cost him $1.02 as against $1.35 to you under the existing law, figuring it at 50 per cent, so that you are at a disadvantage to-day, if my figures are correct.

Mr. NOYES. I can state with a great deal of feeling we are having serious trouble in competition with the foreigner. I can affirm that to you. We are being undersold in a great many instances. I could name one of the largest clothing houses in the country that we can not sell because they are buying of the foreigner. They offered us three big orders in the last six months at prices so far below my cost that I could not take the orders. I could not do it. I could not do it. We are suffering severely to-day from competition.

Mr. FORDNEY. The gentlemen who have appeared here and asked for a low rate of duty on buttons, as Mr. Harrison has said, are importers. Nobody else has asked for a low rate of duty on imported buttons but the importer, and I can see from your explanation why they are asking for a low rate of duty, so that they may get more imported

buttons.

Mr. NOYES. I should think that was obvious.

Mr. PALMER. I suppose although the foreign button is cheaper, the fact that the trade depends a great deal on the matter of style affords you some protection?

Mr. NOYES. If we could keep in business, if we are not wiped out, if our profits will let us keep in business, it is probable, because style will always sell some buttons. The only trouble is we are really at the breaking point where in the last few years we have only earned 1.73 per cent. You will realize the situation is critical.

Mr. PALMER. What makes the style? Who sets the fashions? Do you follow the foreigner?

Mr. NOYES. No, sir; I would not want to say we do. Every one in the business is trying to create style. We are largely controlled by the weaves in cloth. We go to the woolen manufacturers and have endeavored to get little pieces of cloth from them long in advance before they sold them to the clothing merchant. We have been trying to get foreign cloths abroad. And we have always tried to get them so that we can go back and get the styles and the particular effect that will be suitable to these novelty goods which go into highpriced clothing.

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