Mr. CLARK. It can not only be evaded. The five-year rule applies to counting them in the quota. After five years they are exempted from the quota entirely. Mr. RAKER. There is no quota now to Canada. The CHAIRMAN. The quota of a foreign country? Mr. McREYNOLDS. Do you think there ought to be a quota as to Canada? Mr. CLARK. I do not know; I would not like to say as to that. Mr. VINCENT. You think the administrative provisions in the case of a quota for Canada would be very heavy, do you? Mr. CLARK. I do. Mr. VINCENT. Such as the situation of Detroit with Windsor across the river with a great flow of people. Mr. CLARK. There are 300,000 passengers a month that cross there. Mr. VINCENT. The ordinary business man, for business purposes. passes the immigration station without a question as a rule, does he not? Mr. CLARK. Ordinarily, yes. Mr. VINCENT. He may show an Elks' card or something to identify him. Mr. CLARK. He identifies himself in some way. Mr. BACON. Would it be possible to provide men accustomed to travelling back and forth with certificates? Mr. CLARK. Yes; they now have identification cards, which are very much used in Detriot. Mr. VINCENT. Under the present system, there is very little difficulty. I am asking for information because whenever I have been there I have not been misused or delayed at all, and there is very little trouble along that line. There is free passage of American citizens across there and Canadian citizens into Detroit. Mr. CLARK. Very little trouble. Mr. FREE. How do you detect the fellow who is slipping in? Mr. CLARK. The inspector is supposed to be able to size up his man, a good, bright inspector. Mr. FREE. Do you think it is possible to stop smuggling entirely? Mr. CLARK. I would not say entirely, but you can lessen it if we are helped in the way of the amendments I am asking for. Mr. BACON. How much additional help would you need for the border? Mr. CLARK. I can not say offhand. Mr. VINCENT. Do you think there is a great deal of smuggling on the border west of Lake Superior? Mr. CLARK. Yes. Mr. VINCENT. There is a long, unguarded border, is there not? Mr. CLARK. Yes. Mr. VINCENT. Is there any other except Portal? Mr. CLARK. There are a number west of Portal. Mr. VINCENT. How far from Portal do you go before there is another immigration station? Mr. CLARK. Gateway, and Kingsgate, Eastport, Idaho, Marcus, Wash., also a smaller station at Sumas, Wash., and Blaine, Wash., is the next. Mr. VINCENT. The same difficulties are encountered on that border! Mr. CLARK. Yes, we have a bunch of people in Seattle to be deported on the 9th of this month who went to Vancouver and smuggled over from there. Mr. VINCENT. How do you expect to stop it? It would take an army to stop it. Mr. CLARK. Some of these things we have asked for, we believe from long years of experience, may stop it. We can not stop it entirely. The CHAIRMAN. Let us say a man comes from Austria to Canada and is smuggled into the United States. Is he listed in the immigration arrivals of Canada as an Austrian coming to Canada? Mr. CLARK. Yes; if he is lawfully landed in Canada he is listed. The CHAIRMAN. A man of that kind may smuggle himself in. Mr. CLARK. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Canada has not had any large immigration for several years. Mr. CLARK. They have been bringing in quite a number in the last year or two. The CHAIRMAN. Leaving out the British provisions to keep out immigration from the United States to Canada, they have not had as much as 50,000 in several years. Mr. CLARK. No. The CHAIRMAN. So of the people who are to be smuggled across the border, the proportion out of 50,000 people is less that might try to smuggle. Mr. CLARK. Yes, but the British offenders have been worst for the last two years. Mr. BACON. I understood Mr. Clark to say that Canada is making a special effort to encourage immigration from all over Europe. Mr. CLARK. Now? Mr. BACON. From now on he anticipates a great many more smugglers. Mr. RAKER. What do you think about a man coming to Canada and trying to get in here under the quota? Mr. CLARK. As you now have the law they have to remain in Canada five years before being exempted from being counted in the quota. Mr. RAKER. If a man comes to the border of the United States and finds the quota exhausted Mr. CLARK (interposing). He is out. Mr. RAKER. If he enters Canada, irrespective of how he gets in, he can not come into the United States for five years? Mr. CLARK. There is nothing to prohibit him except exhaustion of the quota. Then he can not come in. Mr. FREE. Where does he get his passport if he comes into Canada and remains a year. If an Austrian comes to Canada and remains a year and wants to come to the United States, where does he get Mr. CLARK. Yes; they will issue passports. After he has lived there one year our American consular service will visé his passport, and that is where your quota and consular arrangements do not agree. Mr. FREE. The consular people are not authorized to pay attention to our five-year limitation? Mr. CLARK. No; after the man has had one year's residence in Canada they will visé his passport. You all know Mr. Halstead, our consular general, who is heartily in favor of making the period five years before viséing a passport, except in special cases, such as a business man in an emergency. Mr. RAKER. A passport is only issued to one who has been a resident of Canada for a year; otherwise he could not get in legally. Mr. CLARK. Not if the quota was exhausted, that would not help him any. But if the quota is not exhausted he gets the passport viséd if there for a year and he is right there. That is what has caused all your trouble at Ellis Island. The CHAIRMAN. It is on account of the difference of the one-year requirement for visé of passports in Canada. Mr. CLARK. And your quota requires him to be there five years before being exempted from the count. The CHAIRMAN. After he is there one year he can get his passport viséd? Mr. CLARK. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Then he proceeds to go across and calls himself in the quota if it is open. Mr. CLARK. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. If he is counted it upsets the calculation at Ellis Island. Mr. CLARK. And abroad. The CHAIRMAN. That accounts for the confusion in the last three or four months as to quota openings. Mr. RAKER. It can not work that way at all under the present bill if there are only so many certificates issued. Mr. CLARK. If we tied it down to certificates, then you would be all right. The CHAIRMAN. How do they get at that one year requirement? Mr. CLARK. How did you intend to have that operate as regards aliens in Canada procuring certificates? Mr. Box. As to Mexicans I have discussed that point, because I presume we will discuss it here. The CHAIRMAN. Assume that a native of Canada was placed under the quota law, that the quota would be large, the residents in the United States being quite large, can those people in Canada proposing to emigrate to the United States come within the quota! We would still have provision for passing to and fro between the United States and contiguous territory to allow the enormous commercial traffic which goes back and forth. Also something similar in regard to Mexico. Mr. RAKER. What Judge Box speaks of is the case of an Austrian subject with Canada. Mr. Box. Yes; a great many come over. Mr. RAKER. If an Austrian subject is in England it is the same. thing. Mr. Box. It is liable to be in any country in the world. The quota is fixed according to the quota of birth. Mr. RAKER. He would have to get a certificate from one of these places before he can be admitted. Mr. Box. We have had difficulties enough, and I am in sympathy with the idea of trying to keep up this quota. I want to work that by trying to find a solution of it if we can. Take a man from Russia, Spain, or Italy, or he comes from any land on earth, and just how you are going to make a count at any one place or six places of all the people of all the earth offering everywhere is something I want to discuss with my colleagues of the committee. I am anxious to work that out. The CHAIRMAN. An Austrian subject in Canada would have to get a quota certificate from his government's representative. Mr. CLARK. You would have to set aside a few thousand during the year from countries other than theirs. Mr. Box. Just as the Pullman Co. saves berths and does not. Mr. RAKER. You would avoid that entirely if you required them to be citizens of that country. Mr. CLARK. You would. Mr. RAKER. Go ahead, Mr. Commissioner. Mr. CLARK. I have put my recommendations in the form of a memorandum that I will leave with your clerk. The CHAIRMAN. That will be very good. The recommendations of Commissioner Clark will be inserted in the record. We are very much obliged to you, sir. Mr. CLARK. I thank you. (The memorandum referred to is as follows:) NEEDED AMENDMENTS TO PRESENT LAW. International bridges owned by corporations.-Amend section 10 so that corporations owning international bridges, particularly railroad bridges, must provide guards for same to prevent unlawful entry of aliens. Unlawfully bringing aliens into United States.-Section 8. Amend law so as to provide for a minimum sentence of at least 60 days. Some judges now make it one day and a fine. It ought to be a fine and not less than 60 days. The prison sentence is what counts. Provide for seizure of all vehicles, motors, boats, etc., in which aliens are knowingly brought into the United States unlawfully. Similar to passport control act, section 3. Provide for penalty for aliens entering or being smuggled in, besides deportation and section 8. Harboring aliens.-Add words "or harbored" to conclusion of section 8. No penalty now for harboring an alien, only under general conspiracy. Recent legal decision to this effect. (Federal Reporter, Apr. 12, 1923.) Passports.-Amend section 20 so that it shall be the duty of the steamship companies involved to obtain passports for all deported aliens at their own expense and all detention expenses accruing while said steamship companies are arranging for passports to be at the expense of the steamship companies. Seamen.-Present law very unsatisfactory. Over 1,000,000 seamen land every year in United States. Many desertions now. The steamship companies should be held responsible by fine for each desertion. It is up to them to take requisite means. Seamen should reship foreign within 10 days or lose status, etc. Foreign seamen now reship domestic in large numbers. Law needs tightening up in every direction. Immigration law should be flexible.-Vest authority in Secretary of Labor in conjunction with President to impart flexibility to immigration, in case of shortage or oversupply of labor. Birth certificates.-Birth certificates should be required from all immigrants, This would avoid long delays in obtaining passports later in case of deportation. |