The CHAIRMAN. Your next officer? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Vice president, myself. Then we have Mr. Freund. The CHAIRMAN. Where is he located? Mr. CABLE. What is his business? Mr. GOTTLIEB. He is a plumbing contractor. Mr. CABLE. Is he a Jew? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir. Mr. CABLE. He is the treasurer ? Mr. GOTTLIEB. He is the treasurer. Mr. CABLE. What other officers have you-directors? Mr. GOTTLIEB. We have trustees and an advisory board of about 40. Mr. CABLE. Are they of all religions and creeds? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir. Mr. CABLE. Any majority of any particular class? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No. We only have some of the Jewish race and the rest are all Gentiles.. 1 Mr. CABLE. Is this the same kind of an organization as the Hias organization? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. Mr. CABLE. They have a big organization over the country? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir; they have. They are only a Jewish organization. Mr. CABLE. There were 2,680 debarred because they were excessquota cases. Do you think your organization could have stopped any of those from coming over? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir. Mr. CABLE. How would you do that? Mr. GOTTLIEB. We would send the reports and cables from this country to our representative abroad and tell him exactly each day how the quotas stand. Mr. CABLE. Do you not think they do that now? Mr. GOTTLIEB. It does not seem so, because if they did we would not have them come over. The CHAIRMAN. You think you would be stronger than the steamship companies? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not know. Their information would not be as good as ours, or perhaps their information would not be as practicable as ours. The CHAIRMAN. What system would you pursue in order to make sure that a person is not likely to become a public charge? Mr. GOTTLIEB. One way is by physical examination, to see if he is not physically defective. The CHAIRMAN. Would you require them to have any amount of money in hand? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, unless destined to someone willing and able to care for them. The CHAIRMAN. How much? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Well, I would answer that this way, Mr. Chairman: I would find out to whom he is destined and ascertain the financial condition of the relatives or the blood relatives to whom he is destined. If the man is destined to a family who, in my judgment, is financially well-to-do and can take care of the alien, I would not require of him to have any amount of money. The CHAIRMAN. Has not the larger part of the congestion at Ellis Island within the last two years been because the arrivals have no means and the delay being occasioned by the efforts of the United States Government to get in touch with their relatives who might support them? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; Mr. Chairman, I do not think so. Experience has taught me during the last three years that no alien starts from his home abroad unless an affidavit is furnished to him by a blood relative or a relative from this country. That affidavit must be presented to the American consul before he grants the alien a visé. That affidavit recites exactly the financial condition of the relatives here. It says "I am an American citizen or I am a declarant, and my finances consist of so much. I have so much equity in real estate. I have so many bonds," etc. Mr. CABLE. They do that in every case now? Mr. GOTTLIEB. In every case. bilion 1979 Mr. CABLE. How would you improve on that! ITTO M Mr. GOTTLIEB. It needs no improvement.mm od 10 The CHAIRMAN. Let me make sure of that point. Do they do that in every case with immigrants from all countries 700 .:A Mr. GOTTLIEB. I believe that the American consul will not grant any visé for any person unless such an affidavit is presented to him, together with the application for a visés al aanrio The CHAIRMAN. What do you suppose was the average amount of money brought in by immigrants from Poland during the last fiscal year? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not think they brought much money.' The CHAIRMAN. As much as $1 apiece? Mr. GOTTLIEB. More than that, I should judge. Mr. CABLE. You would let them through, if they did not have any money, if some man signed an affidavit that the affiant had $1,000 in the bank? Mr. GOTTLIEB. From my experience Mr. CABLE (interposing). What is your experience and qualification as a witness here? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Well, for 15 years I have handled immigration cases. Mr. CABLE. You are a lawyer? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You have been a representative of the Hebrew Sheltering and Aid Society?.. Mr. GOTTLIEB. I was the representative of the Hebrew Sheltering and Immigrant Aid Society. Mr. CABLE. You organized this organization? Mr. GOTTLIEB. The Selective Immigrant Aid Socity? Yes, sir. Mr. CABLE. You are paid by it? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sír. Mr. CABLE. You receive no compensation? Mr. GOTTLIEB. None whatsoever. Mr. CABLE. Where do you get your pay? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not get any pay from the society. My earnings come from other sources. Mr. CABLE. You get compensation for representing these aliens in the department, do you not? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Not if I am handling the cases for this society. Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. Mr. CABLE. Are you not paid by any of these aliens? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. Mr. CABLE. For presenting their cases? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. Mr. CABLE. All your work is done gratis for the aliens coming into the United States? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes; since I have been affiliated with this organization. Mr. CABLE. I mean before that? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Before, no. The Hias paid me a salary. Mr. CABLE. And you would collect from the alien, too?, Mr. CABLE. You never collected any money from the alien? Mr. CABLE. Of the many cases you have had in 15 years you have not collected a nickle from an alien? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Not from an alien. I have been paid for my services by other individuals who retained me. Mr.CABLE. From the relatives? Mr. GOTTLIEB. In some cases from the relatives. Mr. CABLE. Would you mind putting in the record your articles of incorporation Mr. GOTTLIEB. I will do that gladly. Mr. CABLE. It was at your instance that it was organized? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir. Mr. CABLE. You do not expect to get any money out of this organization?. Mr.. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. Mr. CABLE. Or out of relatives? › Mr. CABLE. Or out of the alien? : Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. 1. Mr. CABLE. You are retired, in other words, and this is a business you are carrying on for the love of it? Mr. GOTTLIEB. It is a movement in which I am interested for the welfare of my country, as you will see if you read the certificate of incorporation. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any so-called big business representatives associated with you? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. None of these organizations that need labor? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, sir. Mr. RAKER. You are doing this for the love of your country, bringing these aliens over? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Well, I do not think we ought to close our doors entirely. Mr. RAKER. What I am getting at now is this: Do you believe it is to the benefit of your country to bring these aliens over? Mr. GOTTLIEB. To bring such aliens who are admissible and desirable. The CHAIRMAN. Within the 3 per cent limitation? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Within the 3 per cent limitation. Mr. RAKER. Have you read these articles of Mr. Speranza in World's Work of November and December, 1923? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; I have not. Mr. RAKER. I am quoting from the editorial of the editor of this paper. Tell me what you think of this: What the country and Congress should understand is that the Atlantic coast is now living in the shadow of a similar peril (similar peril refers to what would have happened to the West had immigration as to the Japanese and Chinese not ceased). What are the races that are pouring into the great eastern cities in the last 15 years and which are now clamoring for admission? Greeks, Armenians, Bulgars, Rumanians, Croats, southern Italians, eastern Jews. The folly of attempting to transform these races into American citizens now or centuries from now is clear to all students of history. On this point there is practically no disagreement. Discussions or arguments are unnecessary. Unless the flood is checked, however, and abruptly checked, the Atlantic coast in a few generations will be largely peopled with this kind of human material. Do you agree with that? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I think he is taking a rather pessimistic view of things. Mr. RAKER. You think he is wrong? A Mr. GOTTLIEB. Well, I can not agree with him. In regard to .estriction, we ought to hear both sides. One side believes in restricing; the other side believes in admitting and in more liberal immigration. Mr. CABLE. You are on the latter side? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I am not in favor of reducing immigration further. Mr. CABLE. You have been for 15 years, have you not? That has Deen your business, has it not, in the last month or two? Mr. GOTTLIEB. What do you refer to! I have been for the last 15 years with that other society. Mr. CABLE. Seeking to admit aliens? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; representing aliens in their appeals to Washington to see that they obtain the rights to which they are entitled under the law. Mr. CABLE. How many times have you appeared before the Department of Labor? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I venture to say about 50,000 times in immigration cases. Mr. CABLE. How many? Mr. GOTTLIEB. About 50,000. Mr. CABLE. How many of them did you get in? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I can not say offhand. The records will tell in how many cases the appeals were sustained. The CHAIRMAN. What is your estimate? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I believe about 50 per cent; maybe a little more than that. Mr. CABLE. You were paid by some one in every case? Mr. GOTTLIEB. No, no; I beg your pardon. I appeared, at that time, for the Hebrew Sheltering Society, and they paid me a salary. Mr. CABLE. You were paid for that work? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes; I was paid for that work. Mr. WATKINS. You said you wanted to establish several agencies, abroad. Where do you want to put them, for the purpose of examining into the fitness of these aliens? Mr. GOTTLIEB. That will depend entirely on conditions. We will, of course, place them to the best possible advantage. Mr. WATKINS. Where do you hope to put them? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Probably one in Berlin. Propable one in Italy. That is a matter I can not decide at this time. That will have to come before our board. Mr. WATKINS. Are you putting any of them in northern Europe? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Probably. Mr. WATKINS. Your hope is to put them in southern Europe? Mr. GOTTLIEB. We may put some in southern and some in northern Europe. Mr. WATKINS. You say you disagree with the bill that is pending in some particulars. In what particulars? Mr. GOTTLIEB. As I said, I prefer to take this matter up with our board before I attempt to represent their views. Mr. WATKINS. You can not tell us in what way you disagree with this pending bill? Mr. GOTTLIEB. The main thing is with regard to the 2 per cent of the 1890 census. Mr. WATKINS. You want it 3 or more? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I believe it should not be reduced beyond the present 3 per cent. Mr. WATKINS. What census do you want it on? Mr. GOTTLIEB. The present census we are running, 1910. Mr. WATKINS. You want it to remain there? Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir. Mr. WATKINS. You would object to putting it on the 1920 census under Mr. Sabath's bill Mr. GOTTLIEB. I would rather have 1910. That is the present law, and it has worked satisfactorily. Mr. RAKER. Let me put this question to you: After having read the quotation which I read a moment ago, is it your view that too many of those particular races have come to the United States in the ast 15 years? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I see no objection to any of them that have come here. I do not know of any reason why they should not. They have proven to be all right in every respect. Many of them have readily assimilated with us and have proved their loyalty in every case when they were called upon to serve. So I can not make any distinction between races and between people. Mr. RAKER. Is it your view or is it not that there have been too many of these people who have come to this country in the last 15 years who have not been properly assimilated? Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not think so. I think you probably will find, if you look into the matter closely, that they are getting along very nicely and have proved to be an asset to the country, rather than a liability. Mr. WATKINS. Do they adopt our language and customs, or do they have their own language? Do you know anything about that? Mr. GOTTLIEB. The adoption of our language goes along as a general course. Of course, they read their own newspapers, in their own language, in order to become acquainted with every-day happenings. Mr. RAKER. You have named this society, the Selective Immigrant Aid Society, which simply is a term used to try to cover the |