Mr. CABLE. How many copies of that report have you, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. I think not more than 100 are left. That bill is the base for the bills being considered now. I have been informed that the 2 per cent table based on one of the censuses in that table is in error by about 8,000. Without objection, we will try to have those corrections made.

Mr. RAKER. Mr. Chairman, I offer as part of these hearings, to be considered by the committee with its present hearings and consideration, on H. Ř. 101 (by Mr. Johnson, our chairman), H. R. 5 (by Mr. Raker), H. R. 4096 (by Judge Box), H. R. 561 (by Mr. Sabath), and H. R. 3932 (by Mr. Watkins). These hearings were taken by this committee during the Sixty-sixth Congress (three large bound volumes) and the Sixty-seventh Congress (three large bound volumes); which hearings are now present for the use of the committee and its members.

Mr. CABLE. You do not mean to mark those "Exhibit A" and to offer them in the record, do you Judge?

The CHAIRMAN. No; they are part of the record.
Mr. CABLE. For consideration, but not reprint?

Mr. RAKER. Yes; the six volumes are now on the table, and a part of the committee record and hearings, for the use of the committee and anyone that may desire to look into the matter. They cover all of the subjects reported in the bill just printed, and also the bill of the chairman and kindred bills referred to. Is there any objection to it, Mr. Chairman ?

The CHAIRMAN. I hear none. It calls attention to the fact that the elaborate hearings are in printed form and available for the use of members of the committee. It might be stated here that all hearings which are printed are printed for the use of the committee. It is not the intention and it is not possible to print hearings of the committee for public distribution. The print is limited in copies, and it is for the information of the committee and the Members of Congress.

Mr. RAKER. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following proposal for the consideration of the committee and ask to have it printed as a part of the hearings, to be later taken up when the legislation is being finally disposed of by the committee and inserted in the proper place in the bill, namely:

BURDEN OF PROOF,.

That any person applying to enter the United States under any of the provisions of the immigration laws and upon any and all proceedings at or taken thereon, the burden of proof shall lie upon such person.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, that will be placed in the record.

Mr. RAKER. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following for the consideration of the committee, and ask to have it printed as part of the hearings, to be later taken up when the legislation is being finally disposed of by the committee and inserted in the proper place in the bill, namely:

FALSE STATEMENT, ETC.

That any false statement, application, affidavit, or other document knowingly and willfully made under any of the requirements of the immigration laws, 78952-24-SER 1A- -4

or regulations established in accordance therewith, shall be deemed willful perjury, and punished in the manner provided by law for the crime of perjury.

Mr. Chairman, I offer the following proposal for the consideration of the committee, and ask to have it printed as part of the hearings, to be later taken up when the legislation is being finally disposed of by the committee and inserted in the proper place in the bill, namely:

That no Senator, or Representative, or Territorial Delegate of the Congress, or Senator, Representative, or Delegate elect, or any officer or any employee of said Houses, shall directly or indirectly appear for or represent in anywise, or be in any manner concerned in appearing for or representing in anywise, either orally or in writing or otherwise, any person seeking admission to enter the United States under any of the immigration laws before any department, board, or person having the administration of such laws.

That any person who shall be guilty of violating any of the foregoing shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine not exceeding $5,000, or by imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, in the discretion of the court. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, that will be placed in the record.

Mr. RAKER. That is based upon testimony heretofore taken before this committee.

STATEMENT OF LOUIS S. GOTTLIEB, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE SELECTIVE IMMIGRANT AID SOCIETY, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Mr. Chairman, I am the vice president of the Selective Immigrant Aid Society, a corporation organized in the District of Columbia, June of this year. I would like the opportunity to present our case before you gentlemen in a brief form, because we agree with part of your bill and disagree with other parts of the bill. I did not know I was coming up here as a witness. I just came here to hear others and listen to their views. The CHAIRMAN. Tell us what your organization is.

Mr. GOTTLIEB. The organization was formed as a nonsectarian organization, to look after the interests of all aliens who are admissible under our laws, irrespective of race or creed. We are not to charge any alien for services to be rendered.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the title of your organization?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Selective Immigrant Aid Society.

The CHAIRMAN. It has no connection with the Hebrew. Immigrant Aid Society?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. None whatsoever.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you a large membership in the new organization?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. So far we have about a thousand.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you believe in restriction of immigration?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Well, to a certain extent we do. Not in further restriction than our present laws.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by "selective?"

Mr. GOTTLIEB. We believe that the eligibility of aliens should be primarily determined on the other side.

The CHAIRMAN. How?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Well, we think that there ought to be proper persons to look after the alien before and after he comes to America. Aliens should be informed who would and who would not be admissible into the United States, and should be advised that in the event any member of the family with whom they are about to travel is afflicted with any contagious disease or otherwise inadmissible to these United States, it would be better for them not to start for this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you carry a fee for membership?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Oh, yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the fee?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Well, it is voluntary; $3 is the lowest membership fee.

The CHAIRMAN. These members are interested then in the bringing of immigrants to the United States?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; they are just simply interested in assisting those who have determined to emigrate; that is all.

The CHAIRMAN. The purpose is to select immigrants?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. That is what we advocate.

The CHAIRMAN. To look after the welfare of those selected? Mr. GOTTLIEB. After they arrive in this country, look after their welfare and advise them where employment may be found, keep them out of the congested districts, and assist them generally.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any funds for removing them from the ports to places where they might work?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. No.

1

The CHAIRMAN. Do you keep a register of those who come in?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes; of those that we have taken care of so far we have kept a register.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a personal description of the ones that you are looking after?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; we have not got that.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have his age?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. The only thing we get is through the records of the Department of Labor. We have not the opportunity to see the aliens.

The CHAIRMAN. Where do you have agencies?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. We have an office in New York and we have an office in Philadelphia. We are not yet functioning at Ellis Island, but we expect after this year to function there, the same as the other organizations, and then we will look after the interests of all aliens, irrespective of race.

Mr. RAKER. Is your organization formed for the purpose of working abroad or after aliens are legally admitted?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. We expect to work abroad, and to render service even after admission.

Mr. RAKER. In what way?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. By the process of disseminating information and advice in regard to the immigration laws of this country, and thus prevent unnecessary hardships.

Mr. RAKER. What do you mean by hardships? What kind of hardships do you refer to?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. There are some aliens who arrive in this country who are mandatorily excluded, and if they were properly advised on the other side, they would not start to this country at all.

Mr. RAKER. What do you mean now by "Selective immigration"? Mr. GOTTLIEB. To select the immigrant, to see that he is desirable and admissible under our immigration laws.

Mr. RAKER. Select him in what way?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. After we have fully commenced functioning, we will send our agents abroad, located in the largest centers from which our immigrants come. We will print and disseminate translations of our immigration laws, and in that way advise prospective immigrants of just what qualifications they must possess in order to be admitted. Our literature will tell them exactly what is necessary, what to expect, and thus prepare them for the actual conditions they will meet here. We will emphasize those matters, such as contagious diseases, that bar immigrants. If these things are brought to their attention in advance properly and intelligently, they will avoid a great deal of hardship. They would not commence the futile journey.

Mr. RAKER. It would be one of the purposes of your organization to advise people to come to the United States?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; not at all. Our purpose is to keep people who are not desirable and inadmissible from coming into the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what you mean; you do not mean to say, "not desirable." You mean to help check the inflow or the attempted arrival of inadmissibles?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Correct.

The CHAIRMAN. You have said there are some countries from which they want to come in large numbers. Which countries do you refer to ?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not know of any large number that want to come. I know some of them want to come to this country if they have the opportunity. I can not tell exactly from what countries. The records of the last two years can tell us exactly as to how many people want to come to this country.

The CHAIRMAN. No; you can not tell exactly. There is a quota limitation.

Mr. GOTTLIEB. That is just it.

The CHAIRMAN. We have consular reports, however, indicating that great numbers want to come from many countries.

Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not know. I can not tell you about that, Mr. Chairman, because it is a matter of taking the consul's report. I can not contradict them, because I do not know. It may be so and it may not. I can not say.

The CHAIRMAN. You are in touch with people in other countries. Is it your opinion that large numbers desire to migrate to the United States?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. From what I read in the newspapers there are not so many.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not think so many want to come?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not. I do, however, believe, if you ask me that question, that retention of the 3 per cent quota would be the proper course to pursue.

The CHAIRMAN. Keep along with the 3 per cent quota?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. That is my impression.

The CHAIRMAN. That is your belief?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes.

Mr. RAKER. Then you mean, in discussing selective immigration, that these people should be informed as to what the laws are relative to excluding aliens from the United States?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes.

Mr. RAKER. You go no further?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; we do not expect to go any further. We think that is about the best thing we can do. We can serve humanity and prevent extraordinary hardships. We think that the 3 per cent quota should be followed.

Mr. RAKER. Are not these laws, regulations, and rules printed in the various foreign languages of the countries from which these people are trying to come to the United States?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. They might be, but I do not think they are properly disseminated, because if they were we would not have so many people coming over here and debarred on the ground of excess quota."

Mr. CABLE. Do you know how many were debarred last year?
Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not know. The records are here.

Mr. CABLE. Did you know that less than 3 per cent were debarred?
Mr. GOTTLIEB. Less than 3 per cent?

Mr. CABLE. Yes; for all causes.

Mr. GOTTLIEB. That might have been,

Mr. CABLE. That is a small percentage, is it not?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. I do not think so. If we have 3 per cent come in and 3 per cent of those are debarred, that is not a small amount in point of numbers.

Mr. CABLE. There were 695,025 immigrants and nonimmigrants applying for admission and only 20,619, or 2.9 per cent, were rejected. As I understand it, your idea is to keep from coming to the United States the 2.9 per cent?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Correct.

Mr. CABLE. How would you go at it to stop the 8,239 who were debarred because they were liable to become public charges?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. We just find out, by past experience, who would and who would not be a public charge.

Mr. CABLE. How many agents are you going to have?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. We expect to have three or four.

Mr. CABLE. Are they going to investigate the financial condition

of every alien?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Yes, sir.

Mr. CABLE. Of a certain creed or class of alien?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. No; every alien.

Mr. CABLE. Who are the officers of your company?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. With us now?

Mr. CABLE. Yes; who is the president?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Until recently our president was Mr. George H.

Payne.

The CHAIRMAN. Where does he live?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. New York.

The CHAIRMAN. What is his business?

Mr. GOTTLIEB. Mr. Payne is the editor of the Forum, a magazine.