effect, that you would tell this committee what we can do to put our 10 million idle people back to work. Mr. STEELE. That is another proposition entirely, sir. Mr. KELLER. I realize that full well. Yet one of the principal objects of this bill is to put men back to work. Mr. STEELE. That may be. But unless we can market our output and have an outlet for our problems we will not be able to put them to work. And please bear this in mind, that it not only involves the men whom we lay off in the textile industry but also the stevedore, the truckman, and everybody else who handles the bale of cotton all of the way down the line. Mr. KELLER. Let me make this suggestion. I hope to have the very full proof of this statement-and I am promised it-that if we could restore or raise the income 50 percent above what it was in the prepanic days that it would enable us to use 20,000,000 bales of cotton here in the United States. And I believe that is true. And I suggest this to you for your consideration, because if we can do that it seems to me that it is the one way of solving the whole situation. Mr. STEELE. Of course, our prosperity depends upon the prosperity of the country-at-large. Mr. KELLER. Certainly it does. It depends not only upon one industry but upon all of them. Mr. STEELE. This bill provides a minimum wage of $15. But it does not provide for any change in the economic situation; it does not provide for what is happening in other industries. We must bear in mind that this industry cannot pay premiums over other industries. None of my associates in the textile industry whom I know personally but hope for the time when we can have a much higher scale. I am opposed to low wages. I worked for them and I know what it means. I want to pay everything I can that is reasonable, that is in keeping with allied and other industries. And my associates are with me in that feeling. Mr. KELLER. And if we can get to where we can raise the ability of men to purchase, they will do it. And they have always bought when they could buy. Mr. STEELE. That is absolutely right. Mr. KELLER. I thank you. You have been a good witness. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Do you have competition from Greenville, N. C.? Mr. STEELE. There are several fine good mills down there. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Are they violating the standards? Mr. STEELE. To whom do you refer? Mr. ELLENBOGEN. To practically all of them. Mr. STEELE. I don't know that they are. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. They are in direct competition with you? Mr. STEELE. What mills do you mean? Mr. ELLENBOGEN. The Dunean Mills, for instance. Mr. STEELE. They are entirely rayon, I believe. I may be wrong about it, but I think they are entirely rayon. I do not come across them in my market. Mr. KELLER. I will now call Mr. Herman Cone, treasurer, Proximity Manufacturing Co., of Greensboro, N. C. STATEMENT OF HERMAN CONE, TREASURER, PROXIMITY MANUFACTURING CO., GREENSBORO, N. C. Mr. KELLER. Will you please state your name and your address, Mr. Cone? I am Treasurer of the Mr. CONE. My name is Herman Cone. Proximity Manufacturing Co., Greensboro, N. C. Mr. KELLER. Is that the town where something was mentioned as to their being in competition with Mr. Steele? Mr. CONE. No, sir. That was Greenville, S. C. Mr. KELLER. Mr. Ellenbogen, was it Greenville, S. C. that you were talking about a little while ago? Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Yes; it was Greenville, S. C. Mr. CONE. There are just two things I want to talk about. One is the statement of some of the witnesses who have appeared here. One of the witnesses named a long list of North Carolina mills in a wholesale charge of wage reductions, lengthened hours, and stretch-out. I think he was mistaken about it. I believe he had some incorrect information about some of the mills mentioned by him. He may have been mistaken about all of them; I don't know. But I do know that he was mistaken about one group, because he called the Cone Mills at Greensboro by name. And while I am not qualified to speak for any group other than my own, I do know something about our own condition. And I will tell you gentlemen frankly that we have not deviated from the code standards. And I challenge any man to dispute that statement. There is just one other matter I want to mention. I think Mr. Ellenbogen mentioned something about the mill at Haw River running three shifts, and also the Burlington chain, and mills at other places. I am not qualified to speak for the Burlington, but we operate the mill at Haw River. I think the information in that respect is somewhat incorrect. Mr. Wood. Are you sure of that? Mr. CONE. I am sure of it, sir. Mr. WOOD. Are you sure that that information is wrong? Mr. CONE. I think I can qualify that. Mr. Wood. You say that they are not operating three shifts there, do you? Mr. CONE. I was going to say this, that the weaving and spinning mill is not operating three shifts. I am sure of that. I know that absolutely, sir. Mr. WOOD. Is the other portion of the mill operating three shifts? Mr. CONE. Yes; some parts of it; that is, the finishing plant in which we finish corduroy. I do not believe the productive machinery, that is, what is known as productive machinery according to the cone, is running three shifts. I do know that according to the new pledge which the Textile Institute has inaugurated-well, I will say that we have signed that. We did not sign the pledge; we signed a letter. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Then, how can you operate three shifts? Mr. CONE. This is the situation about it. I want to qualify that. This particular fabric about which I am speaking, that is, corduroy, is a seasonal fabric. Nobody wants to wear corduroy in the summertime. During the summer and fall months we operated parts of that plant three shifts. I make no apologies for that. I do not believe any of us is running three shifts today. Mr. WOOD. Was that firm operating three shifts in 1932? Mr. CONE. We started some time back there. But I cannot say whether we were or not. Mr. WOOD. During the depression? Mr. CONE. Yes, sir; we started. There are some folks here who probably remember that the mill at Haw River was built away back during the Civil War. But I mean it came into our possession at this later time. Mr. Wood. I am talking about the depression period. Were you operating two shifts or three shifts during the depression period? Mr. CONE. When we started up the weaving and spinning mill we started it on a two-shift basis; yes, sir. Mr. WOOD. When did you start that mill? Mr. CONE. I think it was somewhere around 1927 or 1928. I am not positive as to that date. Mr. WOOD. You were operating that two-shift during thedepression, in 1932 and 1933, were you? Mr. CONE. Yes, sir. We started the weaving and spinning mill on a two-shift basis. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. In 1932 how much did you pay to your weavers? Mr. CONE. In 1932, you say? Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Yes; in 1932. Mr. WOOD. What were the hourly wages? Mr. CONE. We never ran over 40 hours for the employees since the code. Mr. WOOD. But how about it in 1932? Mr. CONE. Since the code. Mr. WOOD. I am talking about before the code. Mr. CONE. It was either 50 or 55 hours. We never ran over 55 hours before the code. Mr. WOOD. If you were working a 55-hour shift in 1932 and were working two shifts and three shifts, the depression did not bother you very much, did it? Mr. CONE. We have never run three shifts. Mr. WOOD. Did you have good business during the depression? Mr. CONE. We have not had very good business for years. Mr. WOOD. Were you doing a better business then than you are doing now, since the N. R. A.? Mr. CONE. I cannot say that we are very proud of any business we have done since about 1928 or 1929, to tell you the truth. But here is the point. It has been our policy whenever we gave jobs to men to try to keep those jobs running continuously. And I do not believe you will find in our organization that we have ever laid off folks on account of slack business. I mean we have cut 1 day or 2 days off of the running schedule, if we had to, on account of business conditions. Mr. Wood. Of course, you are not expected to keep people working if you cannot sell the goods. Mr. CONE. I think you will find the record of our company is that we have not laid them off. Mr. WOOD. You stagger it and divide the work, do you? Mr. CONE. Yes, sir; that is, by cutting 1 day or 2 days off of the week. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. What do you pay weavers? Mr. CONE. I can tell you more about Greensboro than I can about Haw River. Are you going back to the main part of our mills at Greensboro? Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Then, give us Greensboro. Mr. CONE. Our best weavers earn $20 to $21. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Not the best weavers; but what is the average hourly wage for weavers? Is it piece work? Mr. CONE. Yes, sir; it is. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. How much do you pay them? Mr. CONE. I do not have the records on that. You see, sir, we were making a lot of different fabrics. We have goods ranging all of the way from 40 picks up. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Then, you don't know? Mr. CONE. I don't know the piece rate. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. How many looms do your weavers operate? Mr. CONE. Our weavers operate a maximum of 32 looms. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. That is rather a big load, isn't it? Mr. CONE. I think not. Mr. Wood. What do you call 100,000 picks? What is a pick? Mr. CONE. That is when the filling cloth goes across the loom one time. The cloth is made up of warp, which runs lengthwise, and filling, which crosses. Mr. WOOD. Each strand crosses? Mr. CONE. Yes, sir. Each time that the thread that goes crosswise of the cloth goes through the warp it is known as a pick. Mr. WOOD. Do you have a speedometer or indicator which tells when you reach 100,000 picks? Mr. CONE. Yes; we have on some of the looms. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Which is the operation where your weavers operate 32 looms? Mr. CONE. That is the denim. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. How many looms did that man operate in 1930, let us say? Mr. CONE. I am not prepared to say as to that. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. Would you say 16 looms? Mr. CONE. Perhaps it was 16, or perhaps it was 14. Mr. ELLENBOGEN. That is what they call the stretch-out, is it? Mr. CONE. That means that that weaver may be taking more looms out, but it does not necessarily follow that he is doing twice the amount of work, beacuse when I say that it is 32 looms to the weaver, the weaver has more help to run those 32 looms; he has more help than he had before. Mr. KELLER. We thank you, Mr. Cone. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM J. MATTHEWS, COUNSEL FOR THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FINISHERS OF TEXTILE FABRICS Mr. MATTHEWS. Mr. Chairman, I think I can eliminate many of the matters that I intended to discuss, but I have a statement which I have prepared and which I will be very glad to present. As regards coming back Monday, I will be very glad to do that. But I cannot do it this coming Monday. If the committee is going to be in session and if they want anything further from me than what I have in this statement, I will be very glad to agree upon any subsequent date to come back here. Mr. KELLER. I think it would be very much better if you would return some day next week, for the reason that you will then be full of рер. And I like peppy witnesses. Mr. MATTHEWS. Mr. Chairman, this statement, in opposition to this bill, is submitted on behalf of the members of the National Association of Finishers of Textile Fabrics who comprise a substantial numerical majority of all of the finishing plants in the United States. Altogether there are a few more than 100 finishing plants. The number of employees directly engaged in this finishing branch of the textile industry is in excess of 40,000. Finishing, as such, consists principally of bleaching, dyeing, mercerizing, and printing textile fabrics. Most finishing plants merely finish the goods for others who own the goods and sell the finished fabrics. The job finishing plant neither buys nor sells the goods, but only renders the finishing service pursuant to instructions specified by the owner. These finishing plants are located almost entirely in the New England and Southeastern States. This statement will be confined almost exclusively to its legal" aspects, which necessarily involve the powers of Congress under the Federal Constitution. The powers of Congress to enact legislation of this character may be briefly, and somewhat generally, enumerated, as follows: (1) To collect, spend, or loan money; (2) to regulate commerce and prohibit shipments in interstate commerce; (3) to limit the use of the mails; (4) to regulate intrastate commerce which directly affects interstate commerce. The declaration of policy purports to make certain findings of facts and the factual conclusions are used as a basis for justifying the constitutional validity of the regulatory provisions of the bill. These conclusions, as regards the existence of certain economic conditions, are further used for the purpose of differentiating court decisions, on the theory that decided cases, limiting the powers of Congress when dealing with matters involving these constitutional questions, are not applicable or controlling to the new conditions recited in the bill. These findings state, among other things, the following: That the production and distribution of textile fabrics are affected with a national public interest. In other words, under the conditions set forth, the making and distributing of textile fabrics is in the same class as a railroad or utility company and, therefore, subject to regulation by the Federal Government. That the manufacture, sale, transportation, and distribution of these goods between and among the States is a part of a continuous stream or current of commerce. sequently, all is a part of interstate commerce. The phrase "continuous stream or current of commerce" was used in two decisions of the Supreme Court and is here featured to enlarge the scope of the commerce clause of the Constitution. Further comment with reference to that particular phrase and those cases will be made presently. Con Also, because of excessive and unfair competition with reference to wage rates and labor costs, and other conditions of employment, |