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Ms. RUSH. Mr. King votes no.

Chairman HYDE. The clerk will report.

Ms. RUSH. Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 15 ayes and 31


Chairman HYDE. And the amendment is not agreed to.

Are there further amendments?

Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith of Michigan's amendment. The clerk will report the amendment.

The information referred to follows:]




In the 4th clause of the preamble, strike "Iraq" the first place such term appears and insert "the current Iraqi regime".

In the 6th clause of the preamble, strike "Iraq" insert "the current Iraqi regime".

In the 7th clause of the preamble, strike "Iraq" the first place such term appears and insert "the current Iraqi regime".

In the 16th clause of the preamble, strike "Iraq's repression" and insert "the repression of the current Iraqi regime".

In the 18th clause of the preamble, strike "Iraq" insert "Saddam Hussein and the current Iraqi regime".

In the 19th clause of the preamble, strike "Iraq's" insert "the current Iraqi regime's".

Ms. RUSH. Amendment offered by Mr. Smith of Michigan. In the fourth clause of the preamble, strike Iraq, the first place such term appears and insert the current Iraqi regime.

In the 6th clause of the preamble, strike Iraq

Mr. SMITH OF MICHIGAN. I would move, Mr. Chairman, the amendment could be considered as read.

Chairman HYDE. Without objection, so ordered. The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes in support of his amendment.

Mr. SMITH OF MICHIGAN. Mr. Chairman, earlier this year in H.J. Res. 75, this Committee, in criticizing Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi regime, accepted my amendment to change the word Iraqimplying the people of Iraq too much, I thought-and we changed that resolution to substitute the Iraqi regime.

In this resolution, there are 23 paragraphs setting out the conditions or, if you will, 23 "whereas" paragraphs. Five of those paragraphs, I think, are in my amendment. I have picked out five of those paragraphs to change Iraq to particularly identify Saddam Hussein or the Iraqi regime.

And briefly going through the resolution, if you want to bring up the particular paragraphs that I deal with in my amendment, on page 2 the second "whereas" on that page is, Whereas Iraq in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire, and instead of Iraq insert the current Iraqi regime.

The last "whereas" on page 2 is, Whereas Iraq, and that-poses a continuing threat to the national security, and that is changed to the current Iraqi regime.

Just a footnote, I think it is very, very important that we be clear that our contest, our dispute, is not with the people of Iraq. They are our friends. We have helped them in the past; we will continue to help them. A lot of the Iraqi people will support our efforts to overthrow and replace the tyranny.

On page 3, for example, it says Iraq persists in engaging in brutal repression of Iraq. It is much more appropriate, it would seem, to say the current Iraqi regime persists in engaging in this brutal repression.

On page on page 4, there are no changes.

On page 5, again, it says Iraq's repression of Iraqi's population. I know that this is on a fast track. I know that leadership says no amendments, but I think as the Committee of jurisdiction in the Congress of the United States, we should consider these amendments for the merit that they might have. I would suggest that it is very important in this kind of a resolution that we make that distinction, to make it very, very clear to the best of our ability that our contest, our fight, our disagreement is not with the Iraqi people.

Chairman HYDE. Would the gentleman yield?

I thank the gentleman. I congratulate him on a very fine amendment. It reflects the reality. I would urge the gentleman, as a courtesy, to withdraw the amendment. We will mention it in the report most favorably.

It is the reality that we certainly make the distinction between Iraq and the people of Iraq and the regime of Iraq, all of those distinctions are very real and substantive. This amendment has been drafted. It is agreed to by the Democrats, that is, the Democratic

leadership, Republican leadership, the White House, Senator Lott-we are hoping Senator Daschle will come along.

But we don't want to unravel that agreement, and I think by offering it and debating it, you have made a point that is worth making and will be memorialized in the report.

So would the gentleman consider withdrawing?

Mr. SMITH OF MICHIGAN. Mr. Chairman, it is very difficult when such a great Chairman as you requests that I withdraw it. But it seems to me that it is important that we maintain our strength as a Committee. What is the sense of a Committee meeting if we are simply given a resolution and told-no changes, leadership has decided on this.

Each one of us represents an idea. I think this idea has merit. And at least at this point I would not withdraw until we have additional discussion on it.

Chairman HYDE. If the gentleman would yield, I appreciate what you are saying. The reason for having the Committee meeting and holding out for no amendments is not merely to go through the form of a meeting, but to give everyone an opportunity to weigh in on the important issues involved. And I think it has been very valuable, a very valuable exercise to let that happen.

But I accept the gentleman's wishes.

Mr. Lantos.

Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman, I think there is not a Member on this Committee who does not differentiate between the Iraqi people and the Saddam Hussein regime. That point is well taken.

However, it is perfectly conceivable that the Saddam Hussein regime may be replaced by an equally odious regime. We are dealing with the country of Iraq as presently constituted; and whether Saddam is assassinated tomorrow or not, the weapons of mass destruction are there, the record is there, and I strongly urge my colleagues to reject this amendment and to support the underlying resolution. I yield back.

Chairman HYDE. We have two votes on the Floor, one is a rule and the other is a previous question. I beg of you to return after the second vote immediately so we can proceed. This is such an important issue, and please come back.

Chairman HYDE. Mr. Paul.

Mr. PAUL. I would like to speak on the amendment.

Chairman HYDE. Well, okay.

We will stand in recess until after the second vote. Come right back, please.


Chairman HYDE. The Committee will come to order.

The amendment of the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Smith, is the pending order of business, and Congressman Ron Paul of Texas was about to address the question. So, Mr. Paul, you are recognized. However, before that, what became of the slip I have here? We have 11 amendments now. I am told the plane going to Hawaii for Patsy Mink's funeral will leave after the last vote, which is probably the next vote, which means we are getting short on time. I am going to ask unanimous consent that each and every amendment be debated, limited to 20 minutes equally divided between proponent and opponent. Let's see how far we get.

Is there any objection?

So ordered.

Mr. Paul, you will take your 5 minutes on Mr. Smith's amendment.

Mr. PAUL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to speak in favor of this amendment. I think the gentleman from Michigan makes an excellent point about the difference between Iraq and the Iraqi people versus Saddam Hussein and the current Iraqi regime. There is a difference. There has always been a difference in war, in turmoil, the difference between governments and the people.

For this reason, I think it is making this point very clearly. The concern for civilians and innocents so often is ignored in time of war. Most times when war is pursued, there is diligence given to protecting civilians, but frequently this is abused. Certainly, inadvertently, there are a lot of civilians who get killed and injured, and we do not want people to think they are the enemy, because historically, even on our side, the people who fight the wars never declare the wars. It is always the government. So you never have the people who are required to fight, and really the people who are required to pay the taxes to fight the war-they don't get to vote on this.

Certainly the civilians and the innocent people of Iraq are in between a rock and a hard place. They have this dictator over there that abuses their liberties, and he has policies that actually injure them. At the same time, they are about ready to have a war declared against them, and no matter how hard we try, they will be victimized with this. Hopefully it will come out all right and they will do better, but history is against that happening.

There is going to be a lot more suffering. At this point, it is not the Iraqi people we are declaring our actions against, but Saddam Hussein and his regime.

The one thing we have to remember is that when a country goes to war, whether we call it a police action or a declaration for peace, or we get behind U.N. resolutions, war is war. And war is difficult and war is very expensive. I read an editorial the other day, very honest and up-front, somebody who advocated the promotion of this war. At the same time he was up-front and said to do so, the American people ought to know that there will be a need to raise taxes. There is a likelihood, a much higher likelihood-and he was already for it-of having the reinstitution of the draft.

If the war goes quickly, maybe this will not be such a burden. But if the war does not go quickly and easily-and we have had experience where it doesn't nearly as well as we think-Korea and Vietnam were not short. Therefore, we should be prepared and let the people know that not only are the civilians in Iraq between the rock and the hard place, those who fight the war and pay for the war in this country are between the rock and a hard place as well. That is why I think this amendment is so important in making an important distinction from the people, the people who fight the war, but they don't declare the war, and we have to consider them as well.

I yield to the gentleman from Nebraska.

Mr. BEREUTER. I thank the gentleman for yielding. This may regrettably give my Chairman some pain, and I understand the dif

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