Mr. STAVES. That is previous to my knowledge.

Mr. GOODWIN. I was in the State senate 12 years from 1929 to 1941 and 4 years from 1925 to 1928 in the house. I would say from that, it was about 16 or 18 years ago. Is that a fair statement?

Mr. STAVES. I have been in the house myself for 16 years, and it was previous to my entry into the house.

Mr. GOODWIN. It was also previous to that that the overhead highway plan for Boston was first brought up.

Mr. STAVES. That is correct.

Mr. GOODWIN. So that all through that period there has been a constant study of the Massachusetts highway problems with reference to either bypassing the city of Boston by a circumferential highway, or by some direct route overhead; is that true?

Mr. STAVES. Yes.

Mr. GOODWIN. We know they brought the Worcester Turnpike into Brookline Village and stopped there. Yet we have to come down to the Boston line on the Newport Turnpike, with two, four, and in some cases six lanes of highway, and then stop. And now it is a vital problem with Massachusetts as to what to do with that traffic through the city. All during that period, it is fair to say that there has been constant study of that problem. So this is nothing new.

Mr. STAVES. That is right. Massachusetts has spent large sums on scientific research toward solution of that problem. In fact, we have not definitely solved it yet. We are not too certain that the proposal is one that will be ultimately adopted. But we do work. very closely with the Federal engineer in Massachusetts, who is constantly advised as to our progress.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say for the benefit of the committee that Mr. Staves has been for many years house chairman of the committee on highways and motor vehicles in the Massachusetts Legislature. He has been a constant student of this problem and is now vice chairman of this special commission which is studying post-war planning in Massachusetts. I suppose outside of Commissioner MacDonald, Representative Staves is perhaps better informed than any man in Massachusetts who could bring this subject before us. I would have been glad to contribute my compliments to our Commissioner MacDonald, of whom so many good things have been said, right at this time when he made his initial appearance here, but I was confined back in Massachusetts by illness. Commissioner MacDonald has the confidence of our people and he has just been reappointed by Governor Saltonstall, and confirmed for another term.

The CHAIRMAN. We appreciate that statement.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I would like to add that Mr. Staves has submitted a most excellent statement, and is a fine witness.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you for your thoroughness and the consideration you have given the matter. And we assure you this matter will be given very careful consideration by the committee. When we finally get out a bill, we hope it will, even if not entirely satisfactory, be one we can all get behind and start this work moving.

Mr. STAVES. It is the most serious problem we face in the old Bay State.

The CHAIRMAN. The next witness will be Mr. Williamson, of South Carolina.

98217-44-vol. 1-21

FURTHER STATEMENT OF J. S. WILLIAMSON, CHIEF HIGHWAY COMMISSIONER, STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, in South Carolina we have a 14-man commission, 1 member from each highway district, whose boundaries conform to those of the judicial circuits of the State. These members are elected by the senators and representatives of the counties comprising their districts. The 14man commission elects a chief highway commissioner, who is not a member of the commission, and who is the executive head of the State highway department, but who has all powers of the commission when it is not in session. All of his acts are subject to review and approval or reversal by the commission. I hold the position of chief highway commissioner.

South Carolina has carried on a State highway construction program for the past 20 years, but the financial position of the State has never permitted a highway program in proportion to the needs. As a result of this condition, the needs for additional highway improvements have mounted annually; and, since the complete disruption of construction during the war, our highway improvements are lagging far behind the minimum requirements for adequate highway facilities. The State highway system of South Carolina comprises approximately 12,000 miles of highways, classified as follows:

Standard paving

Bituminous surface treatment.

Earth types--
Unimproved---

Total

Miles

2,700

4, 600

400

4,300

12,000

It is estimated that there will be an immediate post-war need for reconstruction and new construction on the State highway system, as follows:

For modernizing the present improved rural road system:

Roads to be rebuilt, 600 miles at a cost of
Roads to be widened, 1,000 miles at a cost of
Roads to be relocated, 400 miles at a cost of
200 bridges to be widened or rebuilt_.

Total cost.

$18, 000, 000

15, 000, 000

16, 000, 000

8, 000, 000

57, 000, 000

For urban needs in 50 municipalities of over 2,500 population: Construction by bypasses, entrances, and improvements of existing urban streets_

For unimproved roads on State system:

Construction of 4,700 miles_.

Bridges.

Total_____

Entire State needs total $171, 000, 000.

$61, 000, 000

$47, 000, 000 6, 000, 000

53, 000, 000

With a construction program of approximately $18,000,000 per year, which is the allotment for South Carolina under the provisions of this bill, plus State funds, it would require about 10 years to complete this program. And at the expiration of this 10-year period,

according to our past experience, there will then exist a need for: An additional program to correct deficiences of $60,000,000 since these will undoubtedly develop in the existing highways, and to provide for extensions.

South Carolina is definitely not circumstanced to finance a construction program anywhere near the size needed to provide reasonable highway service. We now have a funded debt of $61,000,000 and our revenue from the gasoline tax and motor-vehicle license fees was only $15,000,000 during the peak year of 1941. Our estimate of funds available for new construction, based upon 1941 peak-year revenues, is as follows:

The debt service shown is based on averages 1944 through 1947. In order to provide approximately $5,000,000 for the financing of an annual construction program amounting to approximately $18,000,000, 75 percent to be furnished by the Federal Government and 25 percent by the State, it would be necessary for the State to refinance annually approximately $3,500,000 of its bonded indebtedness to add to the $1,500,000 available from current revenue.

The highway department is proceeding with the preparation of road and bridge plans for a post-war highway construction program just as rapidly as is possible with the personnel available. To date we have plans entirely completed for projects estimated to cost approximately $17,000,000 and field surveys have been made for additional projects estimated to cost $14,000,000. We estimate that, with our present personnel, we can have by January 1, 1945, road and bridge plans entirely completed and ready for starting construction on projects estimated to cost $30,000,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much for your statement. Are there any questions?

Mr. WOLCOTT. On the basis of this, if you completed your program you would have to raise, if it was a 3-year program, $14,000,000. What part of that program do you think it is absolutely essential that you complete immediately following the war?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Well, I think if we could carry on a program of about $17,000,000 to $18,000,000 a year, we would get along fairly well.

Mr. WOLCOTT. And you think you could match that on a 75–25 basis?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Tomorrow morning we will start with Mr. Ziegler, The committee will now recess until 10 o'clock to

of Michigan.

morrow.

(Whereupon, at 11:55 a. m., the committee adjourned to 10 a. m., Friday, March 10, 1944.)

FEDERAL AID FOR POST-WAR HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION

FRIDAY, MARCH 10, 1944

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON ROADS,
Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10 a. m., the Honorable J. W. Robinson (chairman), presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The first witness this morning is Mr. Ziegler, of Michigan. Mr. Ziegler, will you give the reporter your name and title?

STATEMENT OF CHARLES M. ZIEGLER, STATE HIGHWAY COMMISSIONER, STATE OF MICHIGAN

Mr. ZIEGLER. Charles M. Ziegler, State highway commissioner, of Michigan. I have with me my two deputies, Mr. Harry T. Ward and Mr. Harry C. Coombs.

The CHAIRMAN. I want the record to show that Michigan has on the committee, as the ranking minority member, Jesse P. Wolcott. And I need not tell you, Mr. Ziegler, or the people of Michigan, that he is doing wonderful work, not only for Michigan, but for the entire country. We appreciate his cooperation very much, and his helpfulness in trying to solve these intricate problems. He is one of the outstanding Members of Congress.

Mr. ZIEGLER. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that we have the same opinion in Michigan, and I am very pleased to have you confirm it. Michigan appreciates very much, the opportunity to come before you today and give you facts with regard to our situation. I know the time is short, and I will get right down to business.

Careful analysis of the economic and unemployment problems which followed World War I, and thoughtful planning, will help the United States to avoid these pitfalls as an aftermath of the present world conflict.

The Government has estimated 8,000,000 persons, 425,000 of them in Michigan, may be without employment at the end of the war unless there is adequate planning to provide post-war jobs. We in Michigan are of the opinion that a highway and street construction program is badly needed from the standpoint of industrial and tourist requirements. It will provide one of the best mediums through which our State may prevent a great unemployment problem when servicemen return home, war jobs suddenly end and Michigan's great industrial empire, now geared entirely to war, enters the transition period and retools for the manufacture of peacetime products.