Mr. BALDOCK. And applies to all the Western States. Mr. WOLCOTT. I think probably this would be a good time to clarify that, because I never did understand it. The CHAIRMAN. The theory of it is simply this, is it not? That in the Western States, where we have public lands, there are so many roads across public lands that are owned by the Federal Government, that the Federal Government should participate in the payment for those roads. Mr. WOLCOTT. This says: The Federal share payable on account of any project provided for by funds made available by this act shall not exceed 75 percent of the cost thereof Then it goes on to say— plus a percentage of the remaining 25 percent of such cost * * * * * Mr. BALDOCK. They have stated it differently from the way I stated it, but it means the same thing. Mr. WOLCOTT. “* remaining 25 percent of such cost in any State containing unappropriated and unreserved public lands, other Federal lands, and nontaxable Indian lands, individual and tribal, exceeding 5 percent of the total area of all lands therein, equal to the percentage that the area of such lands in such State is of its total The way I read that it means that the reductions start after the first 5 percent. Mr. BALDOCK. Yes. Mr. WOLCOTT. Then they don't take into consideration the first 5 percent in deducting from the 25 percent, which you would ordinarily take off. Mr. CURTISS. The 5 percent applies to any State that has more than 5 percent of its area in public lands. But all of the area in public lands is taken into consideration. Mr. WOLCOTT. It says "exceeding 5 percent of the total area * * ; you cannot interpret that to mean anything else but that the first 5 percent does not count. Mr. CURTISS. The language is a little vague. Mr. WOLCOTT. It always has been to me. Mr. CURTISS. It applies only to those States which have more than 5 percent of their area in public lands. Mr. BALDOCK. As I understand it, forest areas Mr. CURTISS. Are not considered to be Federal lands in making this determination. Mr. WHITTINGTON. You say forest lands are not included in the Federal lands, under the terms of this bill? Mr. CURTISS. No, sir. Under the terms of this bill they would not be considered as Federal lands. Mr. BALDOCK, I would suggest that you cut out "the other public lands," because it would make it impossible of solution. That would be all of the lands the Government has bought for cantonments and so forth since the war started. The CHAIRMAN. There is an amendment proposed here that I have examined. I think it is agreeable with the State Highway Officials Association, that "other lands" should not be in there. Mr. WOLCOTT. I assume it was put in there so that the Public Roads Administration would not have to figure out the area of all lands that might have post office buildings and things like that on them. The CHAIRMAN. I think that should come out, because that would include forests and lands that we have never included. Mr. BALDOCK. I would so recommend. Mr. WOLCOTT. I think Mr. Baldock has presented a very fine statement and has made some constructive suggestions. And I think I should also add, since I have Mr. Mott's proxy, that he is just as sorry he is not able to be here as we are. But he expects to be here sometime later in the week and will be here for the deliberations on the bill. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you Mr. Baldock. The next witness is Mr. E. D. Kenna, of Mississippi. Will you first tell us a little about your highway department? STATEMENT OF E. D. KENNA, DIRECTOR, STATE HIGHWAY COMMISSION, STATE OF MISSISSIPPI Mr. KENNA. Mr. Chairman, we have, I believe, one of the two elective commissions. In Mississippi we elect three commissioners, one from each of the supreme court districts. The commissioners, in turn, elect a director who is the executive officer of the commission. The CHAIRMAN. And you are the elective director? Mr. KENNA. That is right, sir; and I have served as director for the past 12 years. The CHAIRMAN. I am glad to know that, because you have some good roads down in Mississippi. Mr. KENNA. Thank you; you are very kind. The CHAIRMAN. You have been a long time in getting them, but you finally did get them. Mr. KENNA. Thank you, sir. Is there anything else about the commission you would like to know? The CHAIRMAN. That is all. I just want you to carry back to your State that we are all proud of the ranking majority member, Mr. Whittington, and the work he has done for years on this committee and is doing now. Mr. KENNA. Mr. Chairman, might I be permitted to say that we people in Mississippi believe sincerely no man in Congress has served more unselfishly and more faithfully than has the member of this committee from our State, and we certainly take very great pride in his service to the country. Mr. WHITTINGTON. The press can give all the publicity it wants to that statement. Mr. KENNA. Mr. Chairman, I would like to express on behalf of the State of Mississippi, our very great appreciation to this committee for the opportunity of appearing before you gentlemen and making this statement relative to Mississippi's post-war highway needs. Our State was perhaps the last State to get under way with a major highway-construction program. This was due in the main to our inability to finance a road program of great magnitude. Our first program of any consequence started in 1936. At that time we had less than 1,000 miles of paved roads of all types on the highway system. Mississippi highways were, in the main, gravel roads, many of them narrow and crooked with inferior bridges. In 1936, however, our legislature authorized the issuance of approximately $23,000,000 worth of highway bonds. This, added to a substantial P. W. A. grant and unmatched regular Federal-aid for a 2-year period, gave us a program of $42,000,000. Two years later additional State bonds were authorized, bringing the total expenditures authorized by the State to $60,000,000. With P. W. A. grants and regular Federal aid, we were able, during the 4-year period of 1936 to 1940 to expend approximately $90,OCO,000 on highway construction in the State. There are 6,500 miles of State highways in the system. Of this amount today approximately 4.000 miles are improved, leaving a balance of 2,500 miles unimproved in the State highway system. The delay in the improvement in our highway system places us in a more favorable situation today than most of the States, insofar as our main highways are concerned, due to the fact that our trunk lines are in the main new construction where modern engineering has been employed in location, alinement, and construction. However, there are sections of old construction on practically every highway in the State now antiquated and in immediate need of reconstruction and modernization. In any post-war program it would be our purpose to modernize those antiquated sections of our principal highways. would involve several projects of major importance in and around our larger municipalities. This The so-called secondary or farm-to-market highways in Mississippi are practically untouched insofar as modern construction is concerned. Our State is predominately agricultural. Our people cannot prosper as they should unless and until they are provided with adequate transportation facilties, which, of course, would include modernized highways. The development, insofar as Mississippi is concerned, of an adequate system of farm-to-market or feeder roads is of primary concern to the Mississippi State highway department. And, furthermore, in any post-war highway program in our State, much of our thought and attention would be devoted to the development of an intermediate system of roads that would serve the rural communities of our State. We have submitted to the Public Roads Administration a proposed post-war program which would involve an expenditure if completed in its entirety, of $138,614,700. Should we be able to undertake such a program the funds would be allocated and expended roughly as follows: On our regular Federal-aid system, a revision of which we have proposed and is now being considered by the Public Roads Administration, 1,311.5 miles at an estimated cost of $74,464,300. Secondary Federal-aid system, 1,249.1 miles, at an estimated cost of $64,150,400. Of this $138,614,700 total amount, $24,220,600 would be expended in and around metropolitan areas. Whatever funds are provided by the Federal Government and by the State of Mississippi for post-war highway construction would be expended in approximately the same proportion as above indicated on the regular Federal-aid system, on the Federal-aid secondary system and in metropolitan areas. Our State proposes to be prepared to begin highway construction immediately when the war has ended. As rapidly as our limited manpower will permit, we are proceeding with the making of surveys and with the development of detailed construction plans. A detailed analysis of plans and surveys will be filed with this report. The Legislature of the State of Mississippi is now in session. Legislation has been introduced, and is now being considered and will, I am quite sure, be enacted into law, creating the necessary authority in our bond commission to provide whatever State funds may be required to match any Federal funds made available for highway construction. Our people in Mississippi believe that highway construction is one of the soundest forms of public works; that good roads contribute more economically, commercially, socially and religiously to the public welfare than does any other public construction effort. Personally, I do not believe that the Federal Government has expended any money anywhere in any of the 48 States which has been more wisely and economically expended than your regular Federal-aid appropriations. The Public Roads Administration, under the wise and courageous leadership of Mr. MacDonald, has performed an outstanding service in this Nation. The method of procedure between the Public Roads Administration and the State highway departments adopted many years ago in this particular has demonstrated time and time again the wisdom of those who first conceived and instituted the relationship. And, with deference, we would urge that, in our opinion, the policy thus adopted, and which has worked so admirably, should never be disturbed. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my statement, and I will file for the information of the committee certain facts as to our highway situation in Mississippi. (The information referred to follows:) INFORMATION FOR HOUSE COMMITTEE ON ROADS OF THE NATIONAL CONGRESS No. 2. Estimated cost to bring up to proposed standard the mileage on interregional system. We estimate an expenditure of $160,000,000 required to construct interregional mileage in Mississippi in accordance with standard designs recommended in the report of the National Interregional Highway Committee, January 1944. This contemplates entirely new construction throughout, since none of our existing highways meet the ultimate design as proposed by the interregional committee. No. 3. Bridges in miles, including county-maintained bridges on State system: Approximately 80 miles. No. 4. Percentage of wooden structures on the State system: Approximately 25 percent. No. 5. Mileage of State-maintained system: Approximately 6,500 miles. High-type pavement_ Intermediate pavement-- Low-type pavement (surface treatment). Total Miles 2, 760. 4 304. 6 3,874. 0 No. 7. Outstanding highway bonds: Total amount outstanding as of January 1, 1944, $51,097,000. No. 10. Population as between rural and urban sections: rural, 1,750,914; urban, 432,882. No. 11. Number of men from Mississippi with the armed forces: Approximately 175,000. Exact number confidential. SUPPLEMENT TO THE STATEMENT PRESENTED TO THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON ROADS OF THE NATIONAL CONGRESS UNDER DATE OF MARCH 9, 1944 EXHIBIT A The following details are submitted to supplement the statement made orally before the House Committee on Roads outlining highway needs in Mississippi. 1. The State maintained system involves approximately 6,500 miles and this mileage represents 9.7 percent of the total road mileage in this State. The remaining 90.3 percent of the total State mileage in the main is either inadequate or unimproved, thereby leaving a vast field for future highway development. 2. The 9.7 percent (State maintained system) furnishes traffic service for 74.6 percent of all rural road travel in this State. 3. Of the total miles traveled in the State, 67 percent was for business, 16 percent for recreational and 17 percent for social purposes. The total miles traveled on the State maintained system involves 1,735,000,000 miles of which 66 percent was performed by passenger cars while 34 percent was performed by trucks and busses. 4. Before the present emergency, the trucking travel indicated a substantial increase from year to year and it is our prediction that when present gasoline restrictions are revoked and general conditions become more favorable, the trucking industry will continue to expand which will result in increased truck traffic at an accelerated rate. To meet these changing conditions, it will be necessary to improve the State highway systems to a standard commensurate with the requirements of these transportation facilities. |