terminated until peace is signed. Peace often is not signed for 2 or 3 years after the cessation of hostilities, so it would be a post-war program. But I do think it wise to leave those words in there, "as the Congress may direct." I feel we have already directed it, if Congress leaves the language in, starting on line 23 on page 2 then we have already directed that the program proceed immediately. But that language surely has got to be changed because I think we in that language exercise our right to direct that the program be started immediately.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is right.

Mr. FULLER. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask one question, regarding the gasoline tax and Federal tax. Are you prepared to give us approximately the gasoline tax money collected, say, in 1943, by the Federal Government?

Mr. HADDEN. All of that information is available. I don't have it here.

Mr. FULLER. I thought maybe one of your men knew that approximately.

Mr. HADDEN. I gave it for the fiscal year 1942. All that is available, although I haven't got it right with me at the moment. But it is readily available.

The CHAIRMAN. Any other questions?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like to ask a few questions. Is the definition of "construction" here broad enough to cover reconstruction? Because I have the idea many roads are important that were built 20 years ago and that in a good many cases reconstruction of such highways is going to be just as important as construction.

Mr. HADDEN. Yes, Mr. Whittington. I raised that very question myself. I wanted to know if the term was broad enough to allow me to widen an old concrete road. And I was assured that it did cover that. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Well, you might look into that, because we have used "reconstruction" heretofore.

Mr. HADDEN. I have had it up, and they told me that term was broad enough.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Now, my second question is intended not only for you but those who come after you, as far as I am personally concerned. That question relates to public works for unemployment and the duties of the States as well as the Federal Government. I am thinking that with a national debt almost equal to our national wealth and with States' treasuries full, and with the National Government bearing the entire expense of the war, that we are going to have to be pretty careful in our definition and types of public works. And I think unquestionably that the main thoroughfare lends itself to Federal construction and Federal aid, but if that situation goes along when the war ends and the National Government owes substantially the value of our national wealth, according to estimates. I would like to have the views of you gentlemen in the field who have thought of it, as to whether or not our legislation here now should not be rather confined to the real Federal highways, improving the arterial systems where they will be used by the Nation, rather than the improvement, much as Ï favor it and advocate it, of roads that are strictly local, feeder roads as they are termed here, because we may not be able to do both. Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wolcott.

Mr. WOLCOTT. May I ask Mr. Hadden whether it is his understanding any Federal funds are now used for maintenance of Federal-aid projects?

Mr. HADDEN. No, sir. It is not my understanding.

Mr. WOLCOTT. They are used for reconstruction of Federal-aid projects?

Mr. HADDEN. They have been used for some of these reconstruction projects.

Mr. WOLCOTT. Where does reconstruction start and maintenance stop?

Mr. HADDEN. That varies. State laws cover that in the different States.

Mr. WOLCOTT. In the language on page 9, if it is left to the States to determine what is reconstruction and what is maintenance, they seemingly might preclude any maintenance under the State law that might be true maintenance or reconstruction in those cases where the Federal Government has taken the initiative in securing the right-of-way. And in States which obtained the right-of-way that would authorize the use of Federal moneys for maintenance as interpreted by State law. Mr. HADDEN. Well, that is section 9. Mr. Whittington raised the question about that. I would like to see that he is given a competent answer. I haven't studied that section as much as I have most of the bill.

Mr. WOLCOTT. I think section 9 constitutes a very important question. That is, whether we can let the Federal Government go in and violate State laws.

The CHAIRMAN. I will say other members of the State highway departments will appear and take up these other questions. So I think at this time it would be advisable to recess until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock, and we will go on with other members of the organization.

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, March 1, 1944, at 10 a. m.)

FEDERAL AID FOR POST-WAR HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 1, 1944

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON ROADS,
Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Hon. J. W. Robinson, chairman, presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order. I think all of the members of the committee who are available will be here this morning, though some of them may be a little late. Representative Mott is in Oregon, attending the funeral of the late Senator McNary. One of our other members, Representative Goodwin, of Massachusetts, is ill. Other than that, I think the rest of them will all be here.

Our first witness this morning is Mr. Carl W. Brown, chief engineer of the State Highway Department of Missouri, who is also president of the American Road Builders' Association. Mr. Brown, will you come forward, please?

STATEMENT OF CARL W. BROWN, CHIEF ENGINEER, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT

Mr. BROWN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, the talk assigned me was the Highway Needs of the Typical State.

Naturally I have to take most of my information and base it on the needs of my own State, with which I am familiar, and not familiar with the others, at least, to a large extent.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand it, the topic was assigned you by the American Association of State Highway Officials. And you are a director of that organization?

Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the topic is "Highway Needs of the Typical State"?

Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you are going to discuss that?

Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir. As I say, I will have to take most of my data, and so forth, from my own State of Missouri. I would like to say, prior to beginning the general statement, that we based our estimates on a program we laid out, or tried to have laid out, and tried to follow back from about 1939 which, of course, was prior to our entry into the war, and using that as a basis for our information and report to bring it up to date. I think in that way it shows that we have not taken exactly the results of the war conditions, as such, but have based it on what we thought was a conservative and worth-while program some 5 or 6 years ago.

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Mr. WHITTINGTON. Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Whittington.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. By that statement you mean to be understood, while that program would have been applicable 5 or 6 years ago, it is not applicable now, notwithstanding the war and the war conditions and war travel and war transportation on highways?

Mr. BROWN. Mr. Whittington, I say I am basing the general report, taking that as the basis of the needs at that time, and bringing it up to date.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I understood that was what you said yes; but what I wanted to know was if you had any doubt about that being applicable to the situation today.

Mr. BROWN. Oh, I think it is entirely applicable to the situation today.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. So that you are giving us the benefit of your views right down to date.

Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. That is, your views with reference to the situation of the highways, and so forth, brought down to date.

Mr. BROWN. Down to date; yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. All right.

Mr. BROWN. In presenting the highway needs of a typical State, I shall use the needs of Missouri, as I am more familiar with the needs and conditions of my own State than of the others. I consider Missouri a typical State for the following reasons: It is located in the center of the great Mississippi and Missouri River Valleys, which embrace approximately one-half of the continental United States; and is located just east of the geographical center and slightly west of the population center, and about equidistant from the Gulf of Mexico and the Dominion of Canada.

In Missouri the temperature in summer sometimes reaches 100° F. and in the winter occasionally drops as low as 20° below zero.

The annual rainfall averages 37 inches, and is approximately the same for the entire State. Ordinarily a large amount of snow falls in the northern section of the State, many times being sufficient to require the use of heavy snow equipment in order to keep the roads open for traffic.

There are 114 counties in the State, of which those located in the northern and western parts are largely devoted to agriculture and stock raising and those in the southern part to some agriculture, grazing on open ranges, mining, and to recreational pursuits in what is known as the Ozark section. Cotton is raised in the extreme southeastern part of the State.

The area of Missouri is 69,674 square miles, which is about 10 percent more than the average area of the other States.

The largest city in the State is St. Louis, which, including the metropolitan area surrounding it, has a population of approximately 1,000,000.

Kansas City, the second largest city, has a population, including the suburban area, of approximately 500,000.

There are 16 other cities in the State with a population of more than 10,000. The population shown by the last census was 1,838,968 rural, and 1,960.696 urban, which is about an equal division between the rural and urban population.

While most of the towns and cities are dependent upon agriculture, grazing, and mining, considerable manufacturing is carried on in the larger cities and in the metropolitan areas.

The latest available comparative figures show Missouri to rank eleventh in assessed valuation for the Nation.

Due to the rather large average rainfall and the fact that Missouri is located in the Mississippi and Missouri River Valleys, we experience heavy flood damages to our roads at times.

The nature and type of soil make our dirt roads very dusty and disagreeable during times of low precipitation and very muddy and practically impassable during the rainy season of the year. It is, therefore, necessary to provide some type of surfacing on all of our highways for economical use.

The northern and western parts of the State, where most of the farming is done, has an elevation of from 600 to 700 feet above sea level. The southern part of the State, known as the Ozark region, reaches an altitude of 1,800 feet. Undoubtedly this spread in topography makes the problems in Missouri diversified enough to be typical of the Nation.

In the early days of the automobile Missouri was known as a mud State and was shunned by both tourists and business traffic.

Beginning in the early twenties, with the passage of two bond issues amounting to $135,000,000, which were supplemented by county, State, and Federal funds, Missouri spent approximately $500,000,000 in the construction and surfacing of highways, which, I think, when area, population, and so forth, are considered, brings the mileage of roads surfaced in our State to the average in other States.

In 1941 there were registered in Missouri 984,626 motor vehicles. The population was 3,784,664, which established a ratio of approximately one vehicle to every four persons. Thus Missouri compares favorably with the Nation as a typical State.

State funds for construction and maintenance of State highways are secured mainly from motor-vehicle license fees, which average $10 a car, and from the 2-cent gasoline tax, which is the lowest gas tax in any State in the Union. The revenues derived from these two main sources amounted to $25.989,850 in 1941, which was the last year of normal traffic prior to the war.

Because the expenditure of State-collected highway-user revenue is prohibited in cities of more than 2,500 population, this entire fund must be used for rural road work. However, an additional sum of approximately $2,000,000 is available annually to city goverments by reason of local city gas tax levies permissible under present Missouri laws.

Due to restrictions caused by the war, 1943 shows a reduction in highway-user revenues of about 25 percent from 1941. Missouri has a nondiversion clause in its constitution, which prohibits the use of any highway funds for other-than-highway purposes.

In the last 10 years the maintenance expenditures in Missouri were approximately $5,000,000 annually. This is reasonably close to other States for such expenditures.

The original highway system, as laid out and authorized for construction by the bond issue of 1920 and the action of the legislature in 1921, comprised approximately 7,500 miles, and made a connected system for all of the counties, larger towns, and cities of the State.