Mr. STEERE. Access roads? Mr. WHITTINGTON. Yes. Mr. STEERE. There are very few access roads. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Take your No. 10; that was an access road going to Yellowstone Park, was it not? Mr. STEERE. The branch at Livingstone goes down to Yellowstone Park. Maybe you are referring to the road up to Red Lodge, and that road that went into the eastern end of the park. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Yes. There are a great many roads out there. Under the previous highway legislation in the Western States a good many roads were constructed under that word "access." Generally, are there many roads through your forests out there, Federal-aid? Mr. STEERE. Where they go through the forests, some are on Indian reservations, some through parks. Mr. WHITTINGTON. The comparative mileage is pretty large, is it not? Mr. STEERE. No, I wouldn't say that; not over 10 percent. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Ten percent of your main thoroughfares go through forests, Indian reservations, and public lands? Mr. STEERE. Yes, sir. Mr. WHITTINGTON. That is all I have. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. What is the population of Montana? Mr. STEERE. Four hundred and fifty thousand. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. And your area is much larger than Wyoming? Mr. STEERE. Yes, sir; 146,000 square miles. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Next to Texas you are probably the largest State in the Union, in area? Mr. STEERE. We are third in area. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. How does your climate compare, for instance, with the climate of New England, if you know? Mr. STEERE. Well, I would say that New England would have a lot more rainfall, more moisture. Our average moisture over the State is about 14 inches. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. What is the condition in Montana in regard to the terrain, when it comes to building highways, that makes it difficult to build? Have you got much blasting, or is it mostly level? Mr. STEERE. Not a great deal of blasting. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Largely mountains? Mr. STEERE. It is rolling. The eastern part of the State is fairly flat. Of course, we have some bad lands along the Yellowstone and the Missouri Rivers. But I would say the eastern part of the State would be something typical of Wisconsin or Minnesota, rolling hills without the timber on them. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I notice from the schedule presented by Mr. Cox, it will cost approximately six or seven times as much to build a mile of highway in Connecticut as it will in Montana. What do you say about that? Mr. STEERE. I would say that their right-of-way probably costs more than in Montana. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, the right-of-way is probably nothing in Montana. Mr. STEERE. No; it is something, but it would not be very heavy. We can get by fairly easy on right-of-way. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Let me put it this way; assuming that Connecticut is reconstructing a road over a right-of-way already acquired, and you are reconstructing a road over a right-of-way already acquired, would you think there should be much occasion for any great differential between the cost of a mile in Montana and the cost of a mile in Connecticut? Mr. STEERE. Well, I am not familiar with Connecticut. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, I will withdraw that. Mr. STEERE. The point is, I would say their right-of-way cost would probably be 10 times as much as ours on a given piece of road. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, outside of the right-of-way. Mr. STEERE. Outside of the right-of-way, on the actual construction they might run a little higher. I can see where they would have more rock work and grading than we would in the eastern part of our State. In the western part we do have some mountains, but even in the mountains we don't have a great deal of real heavy construction. There might be 1 or 2 miles that would run very heavy construction, say up to $150,000 a mile. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. In your State, with the climate you have, a black top or bituminous surface is very satisfactory, is it not? Mr. STEERE. We find it so. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As a matter of fact you might have more difficulty with concrete on account of your climate? Mr. STEERE. We might have, in places, on account of frost boils. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is particularly true in the mountainous areas and high altitudes. There the bituminous surface is satisfactory, is it not? Mr. STEERE. We find it very useful. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As much so as cement? Mr. STEERE. I can't tell you that, because we have had very little experience with cement in that country. As I say, we have only 24 miles of concrete road. Mr. WHITTINGTON. I was interested in your statement about the lands along the Yellowstone River being bad lands. Do you mean they are nonproductive or worthless, or what? Mr. STEERE. They are good grazing lands, but it is gumbo, and it is rolling, with deep washes that we have to fill or bridge. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Along both the Yellowstone and the Missouri? Mr. STEERE. Yes, sir; if you ever get into the mud, you will find it pretty sticky. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Well, if you can't find any gumbo out your way, come down to my place and I'll let you have some. The CHAIRMAN. As I understand your testimony, it is to the effect that you are in favor of this bill as proposed by the committee. Mr. STEERE. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. One other question. If this bill is passed and this money authorized and appropriated, are you prepared in Montana, and in a position to put the money to use immediately on your highways in the regular, usual construction of your highways? Mr. STEERE. Yes, sir; we are. The CHAIRMAN. You have plans and specifications, on which you are all ready to start work? Mr. STEERE. Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, the War Department won't let us spend our money and we are saving up a little for that time. The CHAIRMAN. We thank you very much for your statement. Now, Mr. Holmes, we are ready for you. STATEMENT OF H. W. HOLMES, STATE HIGHWAY ENGINEER, STATE OF MONTANA The State of Montana imposes a tax on gasoline in the amount of 5 cents per gallon. Prior to the declaration of war the net receipts of this tax after deductions in the form of refunds for gasoline purchased for nonhighway use, averaged $5,000,000 annually. This sum, less expenditures for administration, maintenance, debt service, and preconstruction activities, enabled the State to match normal Federal allotments on the basis of a prevailing ration of 43 percent State funds, with a resultant average annual construction program of $6,000,000 over the 13-year period immediately preceding the declaration of war. That this accomplishment, controlled by the amount of Federal funds becoming available from year to year, cannot be accepted in any sense of the word as a rate of progress in keeping with the actual need of highway development within the State is clearly established by the result of a comprehensive study carried on by the State planning survey in cooperation with the Public Roads Administration during the past several years. Although this study cannot be considered sufficiently complete to enable a valuation of the cost of accomplishing the over-all highway program needed, there has been prepared a schedule of urgently needed development and betterment work that should receive first priority during the post-war period. This study reveals the need of a minimum expenditure of $123,000,000 before the established Federal-aid, primary and secondary road systems can be considered developed to a stage comparable with present traffic and safety requirements. A distribution of this expenditure would be approximately as follows: The amount indicated as applying to secondary road construction is based on the mileage of the partial secondary system thus far approved by the Public Roads Administration. Construction of the entire State designated secondary system would call for an additional expenditure of $87,000,000, or an over-all amount of $209,745,000. Needless to say, the State network of secondary routes is an essential supplement to the State primary system, for these are the routes on which school busses depend, and over which must flow a large part of farm produce and much of the United States mail. And yet, to date, only 717 miles of the State-designated 6,000-mile secondary system have been improved. The magnitude of the problem of developing this secondary mileage can be better understood when it is considered that under the provisions of H. R. 2426 and S. 971 it would require not less than 7 years to develop the 5,300 miles of unimproved State secondary system to a reasonable standard of improvement. Attention is particularly directed to the needed expenditure of $82,745,000 for reconstruction and rehabilitation of the Federal-aid primary system. The need for liquidation of an apparent debt of obsolescent highway facilities has been recognized during the past many years. And, of course, this normal deterioration has been accelerated by the incidence of war with its imperative curtailment of reconstruction and heavy maintenance activity. It is this circumstance which points to the conclusion that fulfillment of the basic highway development needs of Montana during the early post-war years, calls for rehabilitation of the existing systems of primary and secondary routes, and the construction of additional improvements immediately needed throughout the State, rather than concentration on a limited system comprising but a relatively small percentage of the mileage embodied in the established highway network. Under the provisions of H. R. 2426 and S. 971, accomplishment of essential reconstruction needs alone would require a period of not less than 7 years. A statement of highway needs submitted for consideration in connection with a pending appropriation measure should, of course, embody a concise statement respecting the State's ability to finance its share of the cost of accomplishing those needs. Briefly, the public land area of Montana is 14 percent of its total area. Therefore, the basic ratio of Federal participation of 75 percent contemplated by H. R. 2426 and S. 971, becomes 75 plus 14/4ths or 78.5 percent for Montana. In other words, each dollar of State money would obligate Federal money in the amount of $3.65. Thus, each State dollar would, in effect, have an over-all construction value of $4.65. It is conservatively estimated that during the early post-war years Montana should be able to realize from the present gasoline tax a net annual construction fund of approximately $2,300,000. This sum will, therefore, represent a potential annual construction program of a volume of $2,300,000 times $4.65, which amounts to $10,695,000. The accomplishment contemplated by H. R. 2426 and S. 971 would call for additional State funds over and above the expected current return from the gasoline tax during each of the first 3 years following the termination of the war. In the light of the very favorable financial condition of the State as a whole, Montana may have those funds. Recent legislation providing for Federal participation in the cost of surveys, plans, and the acquisition of rights-of-way will be a great help. Probable cash balances to the credit of the highway fund at the close of the war, combined with State-wide recognition of the need of undertaking a larger-than-average program of highway development during the early years of the post-war period will undoubtedly make that possible. So it may be stated with assurance that the road users of Montana can be depended upon to supply the amount that may be required, over and above current revenues, to obligate whatever allotment of Federal funds may be available during each of the first 3 years following the termination of the war. Finally, it is deemed desirable to emphasize, as an essential indirect factor of highway needs, the importance of including in post-war highway legislation a provision making mandatory the retention of administrative and supervisory control of Federal-aid highway activity by the Public Roads Administration. This will insure orderly development of the highway system, and retention of public confidence, which is founded on a cooperative relationship extending over a span of more than 2 decades. All phases of the post-war highway program and the significance of the various provisions of H. R. 2426 and S. 971 will be covered by selected personnel of the executive committee, American Association of State Highway Officials, before these hearings are completed. And since like arrangements have been made for the introduction of detailed compilations of relevant material bearing upon the present status of preconstruction activity, this statement has been purposely confined to the recording of local needs in highway development, based on the results of a comprehensive study by the State planning survey in cooperation with the Public Roads Administration. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Holmes. We appreciate Montana's report. We will now hear from Kansas. STATEMENT OF R. C. KEELING, STATE HIGHWAY ENGINEER, STATE OF KANSAS Mr. KEELING. Mr. Chairman, we greatly appreciate having the opportunity to appear before this committee to present, as briefly as possible, a statement of the future highway needs of the State of Kansas and further to express our concern with regard to any proposals being considered which would effect a material change in the present method of apportioning Federal-aid highway funds to the several States. It is not my intention to burden you with a great mass of figures at this time concerning our State needs, for your committee will be furnished these facts in a more detailed report. However, there are certain fundamental facts which we believe should be stated at this time. You gentlemen are more familiar than I with the history of the Federal aid for highways, with the efforts of the Bourne committee, as early as 1912, and with other investigations conducted by the many road committees of Congress since that time. However, in presenting this matter of State needs and fund apportionment, I should like to reiterate one statement made by the Bourne committee in its report to the Sixty-third Congress, a statement which sets. forth the broad concept of the fundamental purpose of, need, and justification for, Federal aid for highways, which, in our judgment, is, after 30 years, as sound as it was the day it was written. This statement reads as follows: Federal aid to good roads can accomplish several of the ojectives indicated by the framers of the Constitution-establish post roads, regulate commerce, provide for the common defense, and promote the general welfare. Above all, it will promote general welfare. Federal highway legislation to date, based on this broad concept has, down through the years, received universal approval only because |