indications that a number have been sold off into slavery. These are obviously horrifying reports.

It would be helpful, at least to me, if you could let us know, based on your own experience with Ethiopia-and there is no one Í know who has looked into this problem over time more thoroughly than you have-whether in fact these particular reports are accurate. Is torture going on and is it widespread? Are there Falashas who have been sold into slavery or forced into slavery, to your knowledge and, if so, do you have any sense as to how many?

Mr. BERGER. Ethiopian Jews were taken as hostages and sold into slavery because they would not get off the tenant farmer land, which they now claimed was their own as a right of the revolution. They are trying to establish their rights, as part of the new constitutional law of the country itself.

The numbers were not large. The number of hostages could not have exceeded more than a couple of dozen. The number of people who were enslaved could not have been more than a couple of dozen either. The number of people maimed probably goes up to 100 or 200. The number of people killed has run into estimates from 2,000 to 10,000. We think it is probably at the lower number. Reports only in recent months, when an American Jewish group was on a mission in Ethiopia, in a village only 14 kilometers from where the mission was, reveal that two Falashas were killed and their hut was burned down, largely because of a prejudice against them as Jews. The Jewish mission failed to report such incidents. Mr. SOLARZ. When you say that a few dozen have been killed, were these in what might be characterized as an African version of a pogrom, or were they killed for reasons that had nothing to do with the fact that they were Falashas.

Mr. BERGER. They are enslaved, tortured, and killed largely because of their stand in terms of land ownership. Some of them have been killed because they have moved without a permit. They are the only group that is required to register so that-you know, the same thing Germany did years ago-in order to know how many there are and where they live.

Mr. SOLARZ. And who is killing them?

Mr. BERGER. Local people.

Mr. SOLARZ. Government officials?

Mr. BERGER. Government officials or bandits-shiftas-who also are part of the "law" of the land. We are not talking only about isolated incidents, where somebody was jealous of somebody or somebody wanted to take something that didn't belong to them. We are talking about this persecution as an official policy or one which is permitted without punishment. Pogroms were permitted by the police looking away in Russia or in Poland. The same thing is occurring in Ethiopia today.

Mr. BONKER. Shortly after the revolution, Mengistu set up units in Addis Ababa that were charged with the responsibility of keeping the revolution pure. They had the authority to kill almost indiscriminately anybody who opposed the authorities or the new system. Did the Kebeles' idea reach into Gondar? That could possibly be one source of the killing.

Mr. BERGER. The Kebeles have been most effective in the cities like Harar, in Gondar, and in Addis Ababa. I have just read reports

about the difficulties of organizing Kebeles on the farmland or in the hinderland. There has been resistance, because for millenia, they have lived as independent landowners and owning that_precious 10 or 20 acres was a very important thing to them. They don't want to be communized.

But we do know that whenever an arrest of an Ethiopian Jew occurred, they were turned in by Ethiopian officials, members of the Government.

Mr. SOLARZ. I gather that ORT used to have training or educational programs in the region. Have they been closed down?

Mr. BERGER. They have all been closed down. Since July 1, 1981. Mr. SOLARZ. You indicated you thought we could have a sympathetic consular official in Addis that might help in increasing the number of Falashas who could legally qualify to entry into the United States-out of Ethiopia into our own country. You made the point that you were not suggesting that the law be either evaded or in any way broken.

But could you elaborate just very briefly on what kind of Falasha, in your view, in fact under existing American immigration law and visa requirements would be eligible to come here?

Mr. BERGER. There are about 200 of them who have completed the equivalent of a high school education and who are able to study on a college level or technical level. They would be eligible to study abroad. As a matter of fact, Henry Rosenberg, who spoke here today, is responsible for bringing out some of them.

Mr. SOLARZ. They would be eligible to come presumably as students?

Mr. BERGER. As students.

Mr. SOLARZ. Now in order to be eligible, do they have to have acceptance from an American educational institution?

Mr. BERGER. Yes.

Mr. SOLARZ. That could presumably

Mr. BERGER. That is no problem.

Mr. SOLARZ. It could be a college. It could be a yeshiva.

Mr. BERGER. Well, they have been accepted at bona fide colleges from California to the eastern seaboard.

Mr. SOLARZ. Well, have any of these 200 Falashas with the equivalent of a secondary degree been turned down for visas?

Mr. BERGER. Up until some months ago there were obstacles, difficulties.

Mr. ROSENBERG. Can I say this, Congressman? Not only have they been turned down, under the prior consular official, there was never a record of one of them getting one.

Mr. SOLARZ. Well, are you aware of any of the 200 receiving an acceptance to an American educational institution?

Mr. BERGER. Some of them have been accepted-a number of them, six or seven-and we have arranged for their transport, but they have decided to study elsewhere.

Mr. SOLARZ. But presumably if they should have an acceptance it should not be difficult for them to get in?

Mr. BERGER. No. We have people willing to provide all of the affidavits necessary for their support.

Mr. SOLARZ. Well, let me make this offer to you. It seems to me this is a promising way to help at least a limited segment of the

population. As you may know, I was involved several years ago in an effort to help the beleaguered Jewish community in Syria. When it turned out we could not get out everyone, we focused our attention on helping some of the single women for whom there were no Jewish men available to marry. We were able to get a dozen out.

You will be interested in knowing that last Sunday the last of the 12 women I brought over was married. I am returning to Syria in August, if they give me a visa. I plan to tell President Assad that I have run out of women to marry off and I need a new supply and hopefully that will soften his heart and he will let some out. [Laughter.]

But I would like to suggest here that this be approached systematically. I personally would be more than happy to cooperate with you in getting invitations and acceptances from various institutions that would qualify under the terms of the American visa and immigration law to have students come here, to see that each of the 200 receive such an invitation.

I assume it is your view that if each of the 200 had such an invitation, they would all want to leave, and then the only question would be whether they were permitted to actually come here. Do you have a list of the 200? Do you know who they are?

Mr. ROSENBERG. Yes. We have a list. The problem is that there must be political direction given to the American consular official. That is a very complex putting together of pieces because you have to get a passport from the Ethiopian Government and an exit visa. First you have a scholarship. You must have a guarantor and you must have the entry visa to the United States.

What the problem has been heretofore, without a person there to help the Falashas, who are, after all, mostly rural people, untrained in administrative byways and the bureaucracy in Ethiopia is labyrinthine. What happens is one piece always falls apart and nobody gets in. And if the consular official there-and that is a key block-does not help them.

Mr. SOLARZ. Well, if we can try to get a commitment from the State Department that they will see that visas are issued to any Falasha who has a bona fide invitation or acceptance from an American educational institution, that they will give such an individual a visa to study here.

I assume you would be prepared to provide a list so that these individuals could get that.

Mr. ROSENBERG. There is one more problem here. It is also promptness, because without the promptness, what the past experience has been it is all good and well, but they just do not get here. They just do not get out.

Mr. BONKER. You know, Mr. Solarz, what we need is to assign to the consular office in Ethiopia a Raoul Wallenberg.

Mr. ROSENBERG. Absolutely. Now you have hit it.

Mr. SOLARZ. Well, it is an additional reason for getting the Soviets to let us know where Wallenberg is. In fact, from everything I have read about him, I do not doubt for a moment that if he were ever released from the Gulag and were told about this situation, he would see this as a fitting climax to his life's endeavors and would undertake to go to Addis.

Since, thanks to Congressman Lantos, he is now an honorary American citizen, presumably we could make him a Foreign Service officer and send him to Addis.

But I do not want to take up any more time of the chairman of the subcommittee. We have been in touch before and I would like to follow up on this possibility. We will be in touch with you to see what can be done.

Mr. BERGER. The one additional factor, since there is no Jewish presence that could be helpful to the Ethiopian Jews in Ethiopia, that necessitates having some American-or it could be another national-going there. We would prefer an American like Mr. Rosenberg or myself or others, who would be given American protection, while we help them. We would not do anything that is illegal.

That means the Embassy would have to be sympathetic to whatever individual is sent there to assist, and this means simply putting the pieces together to make sure that all of the parts fit, to expedite their leaving. They do not have to leave in mass numbers, but they have to leave regularly.

Mr. BONKER. If we could enlist the support of Congressman Solarz and perhaps Senator Moynihan on the other side, the three of us could petition the State Department and see if we can get

some response.

Mr. SOLARZ. I will be happy to work closely with you, Mr. Chairman, and also I would like to make available the good offices of my staff and myself in terms of soliciting acceptances from the kind of educational institutions that would enable the Falashas involved to qualify for visas.

I have more yeshivas in my district than the rest of the country combined.

Mr. BONKER. But not too many Falashas in your district.

Mr. SOLARZ. We are always looking for more students, and these are established institutions that are fully accredited. I am sure they would be happy to cooperate in making positions or places available for such students.

Mr. BONKER. I do not want to exclude the one person who really got us going on this issue, and that is Tom Lantos, who would be part of our group. Barney Frank also testified earlier, Steve, on the subject. This is a 2-hour hearing and we have consumed almost the entire 2 hours on the Falasha Jews. We have another serious problem of religious persecution in Egypt with the Copts.

So I will excuse from the witness table the gentlemen who have testified. I want to thank you again not only for your testimony but your commitment. We will be working with Congressmen Lantos and Solarz and with you to see if we can do something to provide some relief.

Mr. SOLARZ. Mr. Chairman, if I could make one point-Mr. Karas, I gather you will be testifying about the problems confronting the Copts.

Let me say that I do not want in any way to appear insensitive to your concerns. Unfortunately, I have an engagement in my office in 5 minutes, but I do want to say that I expect to be in Egypt in the next few weeks as part of a trip through the Middle East. I will certainly read your testimony and review the record,

and I will undertake to see what I can do to be helpful when I am over there.

Mr. KARAS. Thank you very much, and I would appreciate if you could mention to Mr. Mubarak to end the exile of the head of the church in Egypt, Pope Shenouda; His Holiness is still in exile for

no reason.

Mr. BONKER. Steve, I might mention that when President Mubarak was here and appeared before our committee, I asked him specifically about the Copts and the head of the church who was under house arrest. He gave me his assurances at that time that Pope Shenouda would be released. May I give you a letter to take with you and ask him why there has not been a response?

Mr. KARAS. I am grateful for that. Even the released bishopsthe eight of them-did not return to their diocese. Instead, he shifted them from the jail to the monastery.

Mr. SOLARZ. Can I tell President Mubarak that our committee has voted unanimously to offer an exchange of you for Pope Shenouda? [Laughter.]

Mr. ROSENBERG. Sir, I just wanted to thank you for the kind of attention you have given us. It was outstanding.

Mr. BONKER. We appreciate the work you are doing, Mr. Rosenberg. Thank you, Steve.

Mr. Karas, I apologize for taking so long to get to you, but you have the floor to yourself. You may proceed.

STATEMENT OF SHAWKY KARAS, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN COPTIC ASSOCIATION

Mr. KARAS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to express my gratitude for your concern which was expressed to President Mubarak, and your continuous concern for the welfare of Egypt's Christian.

By the word Coptic, it came from the Greek, the term "egyptus" and when the Arabs came in 641, the word "egyptus" was corrupted to the word "coptic." So the word "coptic" means Egyptian. We are the descendants of the Pharoahs, so we are indigenous Christians before the Islamic conquest in 641.

Mr. BONKER. I think that is interesting to know. I am glad you identified the source of the word.

Mr. KARAS. In 1979 and 1980, the attacks on the Christians were so intensive-raping, kidnaping girls, burning churches. Thus Pope Shenouda and the synod of bishops canceled the celebration of Easter in March 1980. So it is like a protest against such atrocities without the protection of the Egyptian Government.

In June 1981 President Sadat wanted to give the Coptic patriarch and the bishops another lesson that they should not protest. So on June 17, 18, and 19, 1981, there was a dispute on a piece of land owned by a Christian who wanted to build something on it plus a church. The Moslem fundamentalists wanted to take it by force. The Christian owner resisted, so the Moslem fundamentalists on June 17, 18, and 19, 1981, surrounded this area and they took over. Within 2 hours the central police force came and surrounded the area; but the police for 3 days did not do anything.