is the average, in connection with catching the steamer. The steamer comes once a week, and you ought to count on from ten days to two weeks in such cases.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, Mr. Secretary, I assume that there is no further reason for detaining you this morning?

Secretary TAFT. Of course I am ready to answer any questions that may be asked.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you wish to ask the Secretary something this morning, Senator Morgan?

Senator MORGAN. No; I had no idea for what purpose Secretary Taft was being asked to come before the committee, and I have not yet, except to give us a general exposition or explanation of his views as to what would be and ought to be the policy of the Government, principally as to deciding upon the plan of the canal and its future operations.

Secretary TAFT. I have on my desk, Senator Morgan, if the committee would like to have it-though it is not, perhaps, fair to give it publicity because of the absence of revision--the majority report of the Commission, prepared by General Davis after the resolutions of the majority had been adopted. He says that a few substantive changes and many verbal changes have been made, but if it will assist the committee I will gather up those reports and send them up here. General Davis left nine copies with me, and I will be very glad to send them up, asking the committee, when the main report comes in, to destroy them, or at least to make such notes upon them that it will be understood that they are unrevised copies.

The CHAIRMAN. You would wish those to be kept strictly confidential, I suppose.

Secretary TAFT. Yes, sir. I think it would hardly be fair to the majority to publish such a report as their report until they have had a chance to examine it and sign it. I did not know, however, but that an examination of this unrevised copy might afford an opportunity to the committee to do a little advance work, if they desire; because I of course assume that the range of this investigation will not only cover what has been done, but must necessarily cover the question of what ought to be done in the future.

Senator KNOX. How soon will that report be revised?
Secretary TAFT. It will reach here---

Senator KNOX. It will be revised in the light of the copy that is coming is that the idea? This draft which you have now will be corrected by the copy that is coming?

Secretary TAFT. Exactly; exactly; and that will reach here, I should think, about the 20th of this month.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, do you understand that Mr. Stevens will remain here until after that copy comes?

Secretary TAFT. He will not remain here until after it comes, unless the minority report is delayed until that time. But the gentlemen making up the minority report have had the benefit of this report. We have been pushing it as rapidly as we could, and it is quite possible that the minority report may be filed any day. Mr. Stevens has already made his comments on the majority report; and when the minority report is filed, as soon as he completes his comments on that he will go--unless, of course, detained by the committee

The CHAIRMAN. He seemed, in his conversation with me yesterday, very anxious to get away.

Secretary TAFT. Yes; he is.

The CHAIRMAN. And I assume that Mr. Stevens's testimony here will be quite important and may take a little time.

Secretary TAFT. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I should think so.

Secretary TAFT. Yes; I should think it very likely. He has only been on the Isthmus since the 1st of July, but he has been exceedingly thorough and has decided views.

Senator GORMAN. Will there be any embarrassment, Mr. Secretary, or any impropriety, in your judgment, in having Mr. Stevens testify here and criticise both the majority and the minority reports prior to his official report to you and to the President?

Secretary TAFT. Well, assuming that his statement would not be published, I do not think there would be any impropriety in it. I think it probably ought not to be given to the newspapers until after he has filed his regular report.

Senator GORMAN. It seems to me so.

Secretary TAFT. I think that would be fair to him, and it is

Senator GORMAN. Not only to him, but I had in mind the question whether it was exactly the treatment that ought to be accorded to the President under the circumstances.

Secretary TAFT. I am sure the President would waive any question of that sort and would be glad to have you look as fully as possible into his views.

Senator MORGAN. I would suggest to the committee, as to any paper that Secretary Taft chooses to present to us under the circumstances he has signified, that we keep the matter entirely private in the committee. It is not for our personal information. We will not communicate what he has said even to members of the Senate, because communications of that sort, received in the ordinary course, are not always considered as being entirely secret. I would suggest that whatever Secretary Taft chooses to submit to us in advance of the incoming of these reports should be regarded as matter entirely within the keeping of the committee-the committee secret, I will call it-until such time as he chooses to release us from that obligation; until such time as the report comes in.

Senator GORMAN. I doubt very much whether there ought to be more than one copy of that report here, so that there may be no question as to its being kept here.

Secretary TAFT. It would be very much more convenient to me if I could limit what I send to one copy, because I would have to scrape up the others. There were only nine delivered; one went to the President, seven to the members of the Isthmian Canal Commission, and I have my own at home, which I shall be very glad to send to the chairman of the committee.

Senator MORGAN. It would be a great advantage, I should think, to have this opportunity for longer consideration before calling upon Mr. Stevens, because this is an emergent piece of work that we have to do, and we ought not to be required to do it in too great a hurry.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, Senators, is there anything other than what has been mentioned by the Secretary that you wish to talk with him about this morning? I anticipated that we would have a little longer

session with the Secretary, but under the circumstances I presume it is better that we should not detain him, unless some of you wish to ask him some questions.

Senator GORMAN. I do not know, Mr. Chairman, whether or not the Secretary has been preparing a bill for the government of the Canal Zone since the adjournment of the last session; but as such a measure must of course emanate from his Department, it strikes me that it might be wise, if he has not done so, to request him to draft it at an early day, so that as we go on with this matter we can consider it.

Secretary TAFT. I should be very glad to do that, Senator. We are quite in need of such a measure, for questions constantly arise which need some kind of legislative action on the Zone. I had hoped that the consideration of the committee would be given to some act of that sort, with a view to relieving us from the constant doubt which arises as to what is executive and what is legislative action on the Zone. Of course we are limited altogether now to that kind of government that the President gave in California when there was no government. We simply exercise police power. That is all.

Senator KITTREDGE. How do you manage, Mr. Secretary, about the courts?

Secretary TAFT. The courts simply sit right on. We have not done anything; we have just let the status quo continue. There did not seem to be anything else to do. They had been constituted properly when they were created and when they were appointed, and we have not done anything further.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, do I understand that Governor Magoon expects to come here soon after the return of Mr. Stevens?

Secretary TAFT. Yes, sir; I suppose they will pass each other on the way. I have telegraphed him to come, and he will arrive here probably the latter part of January, the last week in January. Senator KNOX. Are those courts working satisfactorily? Secretary TAFT. So far as I know.

Senator KNOX. Do they have much business?

Secretary TAFT. Not a great deal.

Senator KNOX. They are principally occupied with criminal cases, I presume?

Secretary TAFT. It is chiefly criminal business and business that arises with reference to titles. As in all of those Spanish-governed countries that I have been familiar with, at least, titles are in a desper ate condition.

Senator KNOX. You mean questions of titles as between individuals, do you not any question as to our title?

Secretary TAFT. Not any question as to our title to what we have a title to; but there are a number of questions arising as to what lands we do have a title to. The legal adviser of the Insular Bureau has been engaged for weeks in going over the lands of the railroad company and the lands of the Canal Commission with a view of establishing proper boundaries. The Spanish surveys are always most unsatisfactory.

Senator KNOx. Who is the legal adviser of the Commission?
Secretary TAFT. Mr. Paul Charlton.

Senator KNOX. Oh, yes-of Omaha?

Secretary TAFT. Yes.

Senator KNOX. I remember him.

Senator MORGAN. I suppose the question of title down there, so far as the Government is concerned, has reference to questions of condemnation.

Secretary TAFT. Yes, sir; questions of use and condemnation. There are some claims which still remain unadjusted, made against the old canal company for trespass. They have a curious view of trespass under the Spanish law. Trespass seems to be an insult which involves exemplary damages. Bringing suits for trespass is a very profitable business.

Senator KNOX. Were not those claims assumed or agreed to be paid by the New Panama Canal Company, the first company? Was there not a fund left with somebody to cover those claims?

Secretary TAFT. Yes.

Senator KNOX. I thought so.

Secretary TAFT. But of course we have to litigate the question.
Senator KNOX. Of course you have to fight those claims out.

Secretary TAFT. Yes, sir.

Senator KNOX. But if they result in damages, they are to be paid not by the Government, but by the New Panama Canal Company?

Secretary TAFT. Yes, sir. The court consists of three judges, the chief justice, Señor Mutis Duran, who is one of the leading lawyers in Panama and the former governor of the province when it was under Colombian régime; Judge Gudger, who was for four years consulgeneral there and who speaks Spanish and is quite familiar with the Spanish law; and Judge Collins, formerly for two terms, I think, judge of the superior court in Illinois.

Senator KNOX. Mr. Secretary, whatever became of the stock of the Panama Railroad? Is it still carried in the name of the counsel who bought it over, or has it been transferred?

Secretary TAFT. No, sir; it is carried in my name.

Senator KNOx. It is carried in your name?

Secretary TAFT. Yes, sir; the President directed it to be put there on the books of the company.

Senator KNOX. When was that transfer made? About a year ago? Secretary TAFT. My impression is that it was last spring, but I can not tell the exact date.

Senator KNOX. Was it not shortly after you got the certificate? Secretary TAFT. Yes; it was immediately after I got the certificate. Senator KNOX. That was a year ago last May or June, then? Secretary TAFT. Yes; I sent it over at once.

Senator MORGAN. Mr. Secretary, this little discussion leads my mind to this conception: Would it not be best for Congress to enact a law, a joint resolution, or something, or for the President, in the exercise of his present powers, to ordain, that any party in possession of land in the Zone might be considered as a sufficient representative of the title to be made a party defendant in the proceeding, with liberty to others to intervene for the protection of their interests if they choose to do so?

Secretary TAFT. I think, Senator, that in the Government act it might be well to make some such provision as that. It likens itself to the provision that we have had to make in the Philippine Islands on the same subject, with reference to the question of the statute of

limitations, and possession, and so on; and I shall be very glad to look into that subject and make a recommendation on it, if you desire. Senator MORGAN. I wish you would.

Senator ANKENY. In this matter of the stock, Mr. Secretary, was it all transferred to you-every share?

Secretary TAFT. Every share was transferred to me, and then this course was taken: The railroad company is a corporation chartered under the laws of New York. Each director who was elected paid $100 for his share of stock.

Senator ANKENY. To make him eligible?

Secretary TAFT. To make him eligible; and I transferred, or by my direction that share of stock was transferred, to him, and the money which came from it was deposited in the Treasury of the United States. Then he gave back to me an agreement to sell back to me that share of stock at $100 a share.

Senator ANKENY. The ownership of ten shares made him eligible? Secretary TAFT. The ownership of one share made him eligible. Senator ANKENY. They are $100 shares, are they not?

Secretary TAFT. They are $100 shares, and each director executed a power of attorney to me to transfer that share upon my exercising the option.

Senator KNOX. That is the same arrangement that Hyde had with the Equitable directors; so you are a "dummy director?"

Secretary TAFT. Well, I do not know exactly what kind of directors you can have where the Government owns all the stock and wishes to retain the control of it.

Senator KNOX. It is perfectly proper, of course.

Secretary TAFT. And I do not know whether the directors would resent being called "dummy directors." If that is what makes a dummy director, then they are dummies. I have the shares of stock in my control, with powers of attorney authorizing me to transfer them; and my recollection is that I gave back to each one of the directors $10 as an earnest of the bargain. It was made as elaborate as possible for the purpose of having a consideration for the option. So that I do not know any other device that could be used to make the Government more certain with respect to the ownership of the entire capital stock and still secure literal compliance with the statute of New York as to qualifying the directors.

Senator MORGAN. I was about to make a suggestion just on that point, which has been before us all the time and has been a source of trouble, about the exercise of authority over the railroad under the laws of New York, the charter, etc.-the exercise of governmental authority under the laws of Congress.

Secretary TAFT. Yes, sir.

Senator MORGAN. Would it not be very well to ask the legislature of New York (which is now in session, you know) to transmit, if you please-I do not know whether I use the correct word-or, at all events, to abandon in favor of the United States the full and entire control of that corporation?

Secretary TAFT. Well, Senator, there are certain questions that would be difficult to meet if you attempted that kind of a conversion, unless you took the additional course of voting the money to take up, as you might, all the bonds and secure the cancellation of the mortgage on the railroad property.